This Pisses Me Off
- Thread starter BurlyShirley
- Start date
If I were any minority group I wouldn't be pissed at Detroit. They identified who they wanted for a coach and got him. Especially when 5 minority candidates turned them down for interviews when it was a foregone conclusion that Mooch was the man. It would be unbelievable that they get punished for it.
San Francisico is the one that leaves me shaking my head. Dennis Erickson? Yeah his success rate is right up there. I'd picked him right before I picked.......well I would have never picked him. They interviewed several minority candidates that were MORE qualified than Erickson and they still picked him. Its their choice but come on Erickson.
San Francisico is the one that leaves me shaking my head. Dennis Erickson? Yeah his success rate is right up there. I'd picked him right before I picked.......well I would have never picked him. They interviewed several minority candidates that were MORE qualified than Erickson and they still picked him. Its their choice but come on Erickson.
I hate all this minority BS, its a copout excuse. A person should be hired on their qualifcations not the color of their skin. I hate the fact when companys have to hire minoritys to make everyone happy, same with schools on afimitive action. Like I said, it should be based on qualifcations, I don't want to go to the hospital to have surgury by a Dr. they were forced to hire cause of the color of their skin, I want the BEST qualified person to preform the task what ever the color of their skin may be. It should be the same for anything.
Dude, you are high.
Ted Cotrell, and the def-co's from the bears and pats were NOT more qualified than Dennis Erickson. They have been asst. coaches their entire careers. They have been in the NFL for no less than ten years each and not one has been given a head coaching opportunity. Why? Because they weren't good enough. If they were good enough someone would have hired them. Erickson owns two NCAA Nat'l championships, won 31 games in 4 years in Seattle with Mirer and Kitna as his QB's, and completely turned around the Oregon State program. Rick Newheisl(sp?) was also interviewed. Not a bad choice, but apparently he didn't make the cut.
You seem to be pissed off a lot Burly Surly, maybe you should see someone about it
Always a touchy subject in sports. It would be interesting to know the number of minority coaches/administrators compared to the number of minority players in American pro sports. I was always under the impression that minorities were under-represented in the coaching/admin area. If true, any theories as to why that would be so?
Always a touchy subject in sports. It would be interesting to know the number of minority coaches/administrators compared to the number of minority players in American pro sports. I was always under the impression that minorities were under-represented in the coaching/admin area. If true, any theories as to why that would be so?
As much as people (myself included) like to biotch about him Al Davis has probably the best record in this dept. in the NFL.
He hired the first minority head coach to win a superbowl (Tom Flores, mexican) and hired the NFL's first black head coach (Art Shell) in addition to having tons of minority asst. coaches and a female GM.
IMO, there isn't a problem. Just a lack of qualified candidates.
He hired the first minority head coach to win a superbowl (Tom Flores, mexican) and hired the NFL's first black head coach (Art Shell) in addition to having tons of minority asst. coaches and a female GM.
IMO, there isn't a problem. Just a lack of qualified candidates.
Maybe you think it's BS because you've never been turned down for a job based on your skin colour. Look at the ratio of blacks to whites in Gov't or the police force. Do you really think favouritism hasn't been going on there for years. Do you really believe that there haven't been qualifed black applicants for these kinds of positions? I agree that candidates should be qualified, but it's about time that these positions of power better represented the growing minority population.
I can't agree. As a minority (Hispanic), I feel I have NEVER been turned down a job because my skin is darker then the guy that interviewed me.
I think the reason there aren't as many minorities in high positions comes from within the culture of that minority.
63% of white high school graduates go to college. 54% of blacks. 51% of hispanics. So there are smaller slices of the minorities even attempting to go to college. How many graduate from college? I have no idea.
This would suggest that a smaller fraction of the smaller group would come to the table with the qualifications necessary to compete in todays job market. Those who are willing to work hard for what they want get it.
Rod Paige - Secretary of Education - black
Elaine Chao - Secretary of Labor - asian
Colin Powel - Secretary of State - black
Condoleezza Rice - National Security Advisot - black
These aren't janitor jobs. These are people who worked hard for what they wanted and got it. It's not an interviewers fault when someone rolls into a job interview with a high school education when the other candidates have Bachelors degrees. There is such a thing as financial aid, student loans, WORKING your way through school. Whining does nothing, doing something about a situation does.
I worked my way through school. No-one else paid for my education. I think all this "Affirmative Action" crap is just that......crap.
Yeah.....I'm a Mexican with two bachelors degrees that I paid for and worked for.
You are absolutely right. However affirmitave action programs are proven detrimental. If you pass up qualified applicants in favor of lesser candidates based on skin color you seriously diminish the capability and credibility of the organization. Not to mention diminishing the accomplishment of those who have made it based on merit. One has to look no further than the Washington DC or New Orleans police departments to see what can and often does happen when there is a blanket policy of hiring by percentage rather than by ability.
IMO there should be no referance to age, sex, or color on any application form. If your qualifications are sufficient enough you will get an interview regardless of nationality.
But we are talking about the NFL here. The business is about winning. If you had the opportunity to hire coach "A" who has a proven winning track record as a head coach and happens to be white, or coach "B" who lacks the same qualifications and happens to be black. Who are you going to hire?
You'd be a fool if you did anything but that which improves your chances of sucess.
In regard to the Detroit Lions issue. The owner and GM of the team wanted Mooch for the job (why I'll never know). They felt that he was the best qualifed person available so they made him an offer. What is the point of talking to people who you KNOW you don't want to hire? That'd be like telling the board of directors of Cisco that when they hired John Chambers they were required to call me in for an interview as well.
What is more ironic than the NFL being p.o'd at the Lions is that nothing has been said about the hiring of Bill Parcells at Dallas. Jerry Jones didn't even extend offers for interviews to other candidates. The Lions at least invited them in, they chose to decline.
IMO there should be no referance to age, sex, or color on any application form. If your qualifications are sufficient enough you will get an interview regardless of nationality.
But we are talking about the NFL here. The business is about winning. If you had the opportunity to hire coach "A" who has a proven winning track record as a head coach and happens to be white, or coach "B" who lacks the same qualifications and happens to be black. Who are you going to hire?
You'd be a fool if you did anything but that which improves your chances of sucess.
In regard to the Detroit Lions issue. The owner and GM of the team wanted Mooch for the job (why I'll never know). They felt that he was the best qualifed person available so they made him an offer. What is the point of talking to people who you KNOW you don't want to hire? That'd be like telling the board of directors of Cisco that when they hired John Chambers they were required to call me in for an interview as well.
What is more ironic than the NFL being p.o'd at the Lions is that nothing has been said about the hiring of Bill Parcells at Dallas. Jerry Jones didn't even extend offers for interviews to other candidates. The Lions at least invited them in, they chose to decline.
YOU ROCK!
Have you ever thought about working with kids?
Yeah.. Football is such a "WHITE" dominated sport
Those statistics suggest that white kids graduate from better highschools, with teachers and counselors that encourage them to go to college. Do those stats account for the fact that white kids are in more affluent neighborhoods where they can more easily view the benefits of a college education. It's not a problem with "their"culture. It's a societal problem. Everyone's problem. OUR culture.
You might be a minority exception, but where did you grow up? It's socio-economic as much as it is race. It's just that on the whole minorities are worse off socio-economically.
These are people who worked twice as hard for what they wanted, and had to deal with more crap along the way than ANY white candidate.
edit: I should add, I don't believe affirmative action is the best solution to the problem, but at least it's A solution.
Conceptually maybe. But in practice it rarely, if ever, works to benefit the organization that employs it's use.
I think that at age 18, it doesn't take a real high IQ to realize that a college education would probably benefit you for the rest of your life. That goes for white or black, good school or bad school.
Socio economic.......my dad was a janitor at the high school. Not a real high society position if you know what I mean.
I'll state my point again. Hard work always pays off. There is no way to get around that.
It's not designed to benefit the organization, it's designed to benefit society as a whole... in my mind that's why it's so controversial, because it's premise is trading the good of some for the benefit of others.
Like I said, not the best solution. In my opinion the need or demand for AA is a sign that K-12 public schools are failing.
However in the case of university admissions, I would definitely argue that it's beneficial to the org. I can't express enough the value of an environment where students interact on a personal level with others of different backgrounds. Far more valuable than most classrooms.
Wrong. Talk to folks that have worked for Teach for America. It's hard enough just convincing these kids that highschool is worthwhile. When they look around their neighborhood and see maybe a handful of people that even graduated high-school, and those that did are no better off than those that dropped out, it becomes very hard to convince them that it's worth their time to go to college.
It might feel obvious to you. It's not obvious to everyone.
Good point, however, there is litteraly millions of dollars in scholarships that go unused every year.
I cannot support any program that lowers entrance, or completion requirements for the sake of "equality".
Equal should be equal.
I don't think society as a whole is benefited by hiring cops who do not meet minimum reading comprehension requirements (DCPD and NOPD), or by having fighter pilots who exceeded the number of failed tests in flight school(US Navy), or by having a Rescue Swimmer who cannot handle rough water (US Coast Guard), or by having a fire fighter who cannot achieve the same physical requirements as other candidates(SFFD).
That is a PARENTING problem, not a societal problem.
AMEN
You are absolutely correct. However, many do not share your opinion expressed in your second point.
If there is a choice between two EQUALLY qualified candidates then it, like any other job interview situation, is up to the interviewer to select the candidate who will function best with the team. That is, and always will be an entirely subjective situation. I have been denied employment because I was precieved to be too young, too "radical" looking, too conservative looking, and any number of reasons why I was precived to have not been a good fit in the organization including because I am white. Actually, I'm Portugese.
Was it discriminatory? Yes.
Was it fair? Absolutely.
Because they hired an equally qualified candidate who was precieved to be a better fit.
That type of subjectivity is ok, and I don't have a problem with it. Nor should anyone else.
What is a real problem though is when subjectivity is eliminated and a hiring manager is required to hire X number of "non-white, or non-male" applicants regardless of qualifications.
That is just plain stupid.
Lucky for you you've never experienced discrimination in the workplace, but how about your father, mother, or grandfather?
You've named four people who hold positions of power. How many millions of others are white. Like I said in my last post, it's about time that these positions better represented the population. I also said that I believe they should be qualified.
Wow! I'm shocked that you believe the only reason minorities aren't in positions of power is because they don't work hard enough. That's a sad piece of crap you spewed there.
I'm a bi-racial woman, who worked my way through school. I owe $30,000 in student loans. I have a degree and a diploma, but I still recognize that not everyone has access to higher education. And, more importantly, aren't part of the favouritism, nepotism, etc, that has gone on in the workplace for many years
First off, when using ratios be very careful. Of course the ratio of whites to blacks is going to show a higher number of whites, there are more white people in the population!
I hope you aren't referring to elected gov't officials. And not to mention the government is the biggest advocate of affirmative action, last time I went to a government office there was no shortage of minority employees. As for local city gov'ts and the Police force, I would say they generally reflect the ethnic make up of a city quite well.
Oh come on. You believe, for a person to be ina position of higher power, they should be qualified, but represented according to population? Which one do you want, cause you have to choose one or the other.
Simple fact. Minorities, as a group, aren't as educated as white people. You and I are lucky, we got edgeumucated and made something of ourselves.
I have no pity for those who don't want to make something of themselves when opportunity is everywhere. I have no pity for my looser high school friends who have done nothing. Everyone has access to higher education, but they don't pass them out for free, you have to W O R K for it. Is work such a bad word?
People seem to be looking too much into this. How many of you that have posted in this thread actually follow NFL football? The Detroit Lions wanted STEVE MARIUCCI. It wasn't because he's a white male, it's because of the FACT that he was the best available head coach out there. It had nothing to do with his race. The fact is, the Lions could have interviewed a thousand coaches from all walks of life, but they wanted this guy. When a coach of his caliber becomes available, he does not last long. Why go through the process of interviewing others when you already have your mind made up?
Exactly.
As I said earlier:
In regard to the Detroit Lions issue. The owner and GM of the team wanted Mooch for the job (why I'll never know). They felt that he was the best qualifed person available so they made him an offer. What is the point of talking to people who you KNOW you don't want to hire? That'd be like telling the board of directors of Cisco that when they hired John Chambers they were required to call me in for an interview as well.
As I said earlier:
In regard to the Detroit Lions issue. The owner and GM of the team wanted Mooch for the job (why I'll never know). They felt that he was the best qualifed person available so they made him an offer. What is the point of talking to people who you KNOW you don't want to hire? That'd be like telling the board of directors of Cisco that when they hired John Chambers they were required to call me in for an interview as well.
That's the point. The most qualified person should get the job......period. Anything beyond the qualifications for the position are and should be irrelevant. Period.
Good point you made about the Dallas position too. Nobody bitched when Bill Parcells was hired. Why not?
BTW, Dallas is in back in the playoffs in three years with Parcells as their coach.
Look at the NBA, how much is white, asian, hispanic. I can think of only one asian player and this is his first year, I don't know of any hispanic players. So maybe we need to bring more of those athletes into the mix to make it fair. The NBA is mostly african american because most of them happen to better ball players then most other races. Again it boils down to who is better qualified for the position.
But for you as a minority, would you rather get the job knowing that your fully quailfied, or hired because of your color and they need to meet the company quota? And if our Secretary of State Colin Powel were to run for President of our country I would vote for him in a heart beat, not because he's black, it's because the guy kicks ass and would be fully qualified for the position. He would probably win in a landslide if he in fact ran.
I believe the ratio of minorities to whites, in Toronto, is almost 50/50. I grew up there, and I don't remember an abundance of black cops. Things may be changing now, but it hasn't been that way for a long time.
What positions did these minorities in the Gov't office hold? administrative? secretarial? Not exactly positions of power.
As for your local police force.....Well, I'm glad to hear that it's finally starting to change.
Get trained, get qualified, get hired.
I'm gonna start a new thread so we can move the topic we created out of this thread.
The issue is hardly so black and white.
Ha, ha.
Seriously though, I don't see why taking population representation into consideration is mutually exclusive with picking a qualified candidate. Few, if any, 'affirmative action' programs set out to pick unqualified candidates; they're more about choosing between qualified candidates.
There may be programs that do prefer unqualified candidates, but that doesn't mean that affirmative action is flawed, it just means those programs are being run ass-backwards.
i dont think that being born a certain race automatically predisposition you to excel in certain sports,imo its more of a socio-economic thing,youre interests are more due to what you are exposed to.
I never said that, I'm just saying they go after the TOP athletes. I know plenty of white college basketball players that were really good, but not good enough to make the big time.
Steve Nash
By following this practice, are we not faced with the problem of segregation? If nobody took a chance, embraced someone who was different, or hired the "radical" guy, where would we be? Work is work. You're not going to have things in common, or get along with everyone.