[PepperJester]

So is a ti coil really worth the price? I will need a new coil for the DHX in my SX Trail, its a bit soft for me. Soo im allready goin to need a shock, should i pony up for the price of the ti? I know their lighter but do they really ride better of is that just a myth?

any help would rock thanks.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

So is a ti coil really worth the price? I will need a new coil for the DHX in my SX Trail, its a bit soft for me. Soo im allready goin to need a shock, should i pony up for the price of the ti? I know their lighter but do they really ride better of is that just a myth?

any help would rock thanks.

personally i wouldnt pay $200 for a new Ti spring, theyre mainly just for weight savings and bling factor. ive ridden a few of each, and dont really notice a difference, then again the steel ones were on vanilla rc's and 5th elements, and the Ti springs i had were on my avalanches, so its hard to tell the difference of the springs on different shocks.

 

[Kntr]

I think Ti springs feel smoother than steel. Maybe its just in my head.

 

[skinny mike]

I think Ti springs feel smoother than steel. Maybe its just in my head.

well ti is a 'springier' metal than steel so supposedly ti coils last longer and perform better.

 

[SXtrailrider]

no no and no. My friend just got a tie and it does absolutley nothing but take a half pound off thier bike. I feel that the steel pring is softer and actualyl gives you a better feeling ride.

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

Ti is known as being a little softer. I run them because I can, and like the weight savings. The weight savings is small enough to where you can't notice it on the bike unless it's sub 20's. I try to keep my bike close to 38 or 39 for the race season and a TI helps me get there. I like them and would run them over steel. I like them though.

 

[maxyedor]

ti springs are the bling ass pimp sh!t we all love, but they also save a chunk of weight, and as far ar performance, a quality ti sping made of quality ti will rebound faster and be more supple over small bumps, ask any rodie whoe rides a ti frame, its the same basic concept.

 

[vibiker]

a quality ti sping made of quality ti will rebound faster.

According to an expert that I talked with, faster as in a few milliseconds. Nothing that your body would detect. Maybe your wallet, but not your body.

Also this same expert said that Ti is not a very good material for springs. Steel is much better. If you have a cheap (read mass market) steel spring, Ti will far out last it. But if it is a quality steel design, it will only lighten your bike and your wallet.

 

[TheMontashu]

no no and no. My friend just got a tie and it does absolutley nothing but take a half pound off thier bike. I feel that the steel pring is softer and actualyl gives you a better feeling ride.

Spring compression weight, Softer spring is not necisaraly a "better" ride it jest sokes up **** better but will bottom easy

 

[Pau11y]

When I spoke to Progressive about running a Ti on my 5th, they told me you'd multiply your weight by the leverage ratio of your frame (ex. 150# rider w/ a 3:1 frame = 450#), then multiply .9 for steel and .75 for Ti to get ideal spring weight for you. The explanation from them was Ti was "denser" than steel (huh?) therefore there needs to be more taken off the initial calc to compensate. I find this explanation kinda weird since Ti and all of it's alloying elements sits higher on the periodic table than steel and it's alloying elements. Maybe they meant it was springier...<shrug>.

 

[degoose]

i love my ti spring(RCS) you can go to www.coilspring.com (belive it or not that is the "ti" spring web site, quite ironic!)

 

[jungle]

Does a 350 lb Ti spring behave the same
as a 350 lb steel spring ?

If a 350 lb steel spring works for your bike
would a 350 lb Ti spring work the same ?

Would you need a different spring rate or same spring rate for a Ti ?

 

[binary visions]

Wonder why they said that the spring rates should be different, Pau11y? Weight is weight, if you have a 350lb steel spring, it takes 350lbs to compress it one inch - if you have the same weight Ti spring, it takes the same weight to compress it. The Progressive guys know their stuff, though, so... Hmm.

Anyway, the only point to a Ti spring is to save weight. Feelings of improved performance are strictly placebo.

They're expensive, but I always point out one thing: where else on your entire bike can you save 1/4 to 1/2 pound of weight without sacrificing ANY performance or durability? If you look at it from that point of view, it's a LOT cheaper than several other small upgrades to shave grams here and there.

 

[zmtber]

all i could tell is that its lighter.

 

[schweino1]

i just put a Ti spring on my VP Free, and i had a 500# steel one, got this 500# Ti one, it might be in my head,i do feel the spring a little less springy (it bucks up less when rebound compression is taken out of the formula....but the engineer that lives in my head agrees that it shouldnt be a performance difference.... specially if they are spec'd the same (500#)

the Ti one is chunkier tough..... it allmost hits the reservoir on the shock..

 

[Pau11y]

Would you need a different spring rate or same spring rate for a Ti ?

Wonder why they said that the spring rates should be different, Pau11y? Weight is weight, if you have a 350lb steel spring, it takes 350lbs to compress it one inch - if you have the same weight Ti spring, it takes the same weight to compress it. The Progressive guys know their stuff, though, so... Hmm.

I run 3 shocks w/ Ti springs, a 7.6x2" stroke Romic on an Enduro Pro, the 8 3/4 x 2 3/4 stroke 5th, and a 9x3 stroke Avy (currently on a build so not riding it yet). Each one of these rates is WELL below a steel spring rate. The Enduro should be roughly at 550lbs, but the Ti is only at 400lbs, and the 5th should be at 425lbs, and it's at 350lbs. Both are running w/ minimal compression (in the case of the 5th, no hi or low speed compression at all and w/ 130lbs of air - because of the frame design of the Tomac 204 Magnum), and just enough rebound so I don't get bucked over the bars. Sag is between 25 - 30% of the stroke...maybe even approaching 35%...eyeball measurements. It's set somewhat soft I think.
BV, I can't tell you why the diff, but my bikes ride beautifully. The Enduro has a Z1 Freeride 130mm upfront and it takes 5lbs of air and no increase in oil level. It's very balanced. The Tomac has an old Mr Dirt w/ a really soft spring, 2.5 wt oil (only bottomed once) and it too feel really balanced. Because of the linkage of the Tomac, I don't think I can bottom the 5th...progression ramps really fast in the last bit of travel.

 

[schweino1]

right out of RCS site (manufacturer of my spring)

Do Titanium springs ride differently?
Yes. A titanium spring is more responsive then a steel spring and helps the suspension keep the tires on the ground for better traction and handling. Titanium springs have less mass and thus less inertia. As springs are rapidly compressed the material mass is displaced and generates momentum or inertia based on the product of the velocity and mass involved. In demanding applications this can cause spring surge where the spring coils are moving in the opposite direction of the shock travel. This can disrupt the performance of the suspension system and lower the ability of the suspension to follow the terrain and keep the wheel on the ground. The less mass in the spring, the better performing the suspension will be.

Lower mass systems generate less inertia and accelerate faster allowing better "responsiveness". This allows the suspension to keep the wheel in contact with the ground more resulting in better traction and handling. For more on suspension systems see (link to page 3.4)

What about spring memory?
Many people refer to spring "memory", in fact the proper terminology is "resistance to set." When springs are said to lose their memory or "sack out" the spring has taken a permanent set.

Deflecting a spring results in stresses within the material. The amount of stress is proportional to the deflection imposed. As long as the imposed stress is lower than the yield strength of the material the spring will fully recover its initial length when the load is removed. If the stresses imposed exceed the yield strength of the material the spring will "take set" and will not fully recover its original free length when the load is removed.

It is important to understand that the spring rate is never affected by use. Even when springs take set their rate does not change. To compensate for set, the spring perches must be adjusted or spacers added to replace this lost length. Additionally the available travel of the spring is reduced by any set that it takes.

Properly designed titanium springs utilize the superior material properties to minimize or eliminate set entirely.

What about fatigue life?
The life of the spring to failure, discounting set, is affected by the magnitude and number of deflections that the spring is subjected to in relation to the material properties of tensile strength, ductility and toughness. Remember that steel springs for performance applications are designed "at the limit" to keep weight and size down. With titanium, replacements can be designed where the stresses are "backed-off" just slightly so that typically we can design for twice the life of the steel spring we are replacing. Experience is required of the spring designer to know what levels of stress can be sustained for each type of material used in springs.

 

[Transcend]

Complete BS. The only thing ti springs do is save you about a half pound of weight. They do not "ride differently". Maybe for an F1 car it makes a difference, but it is nothing you are going to detect while riding a bike down a mountain.

A ti spring will last longer, but a steel spring will generally outlast your bike anyways.

What is especially hilarious, is the guys saying that a ti spring "bucks less" and has "controlled rebound" , whereas the official party line says that a ti spring rebounds faster (nothing however that you will perceive).

 

[mongo]

Hey Kanter. That's a beautiful Fly, man.

Hey schweino1. From my experience with the Curnutt, I agree that Ti feels like it bucks a little less... Mongo

 

[The Kadvang]

Complete BS. The only thing ti springs do is save you about a half pound of weight. They do not "ride differently". Maybe for an F1 car it makes a difference, but it is nothing you are going to detect while riding a bike down a mountain.

A ti spring will last longer, but a steel spring will generally outlast your bike anyways.

What is especially hilarious, is the guys saying that a ti spring "bucks less" and has "controlled rebound" , whereas the official party line says that a ti spring rebounds faster (nothing however that you will perceive).

I dunno transcend, I felt a difference, but then again, could just be placebo. Not "controlled rebound" or "bucks less," I agree thats total BS, but for sure more supple.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

hey to the guy that said that he neede to run a light spring in Ti that just means that noe of the companies are not rating their springs properly. you should ride the same spring no matter what given the same application. as for ti being a springier material yes it is but just a little and to the point inwhich you will not be albe to feel it. that would be a mental feeling because you just spent 2oo bucks on a spring.

 

[Kntr]

Hey Kanter. That's a beautiful Fly, man.

Hey schweino1. From my experience with the Curnutt, I agree that Ti feels like it bucks a little less... Mongo

Thanks. Wait till the 06 shows up in a custom color.


With longer shocks, you loose a lot of weight. On my Fly it was a little over a 1/2 pound.

I still think it feels smoother, too. This is only on a pavement test. I dont think I would feel the difference in the mountains.

 

[Transcend]

I dunno transcend, I felt a difference, but then again, could just be placebo. Not "controlled rebound" or "bucks less," I agree thats total BS, but for sure more supple.

Chances are it is just because the springs were not rated correctly, and you had a lighter weights pring.

Same reason some companies say to alter the spring weight when going from steel to Ti. The spring weight is the physical amount of weight it takes to compress the spring..1lb is 1lb, no matter what it's pressing down on. So if they make you alter this, it is because the springs simply aren't calibrated the same way.

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

right out of RCS site (manufacturer of my spring)

Do Titanium springs ride differently?
Yes. A titanium spring is more responsive then a steel spring and helps the suspension keep the tires on the ground for better traction and handling. Titanium springs have less mass and thus less inertia. As springs are rapidly compressed the material mass is displaced and generates momentum or inertia based on the product of the velocity and mass involved. In demanding applications this can cause spring surge where the spring coils are moving in the opposite direction of the shock travel. This can disrupt the performance of the suspension system and lower the ability of the suspension to follow the terrain and keep the wheel on the ground. The less mass in the spring, the better performing the suspension will be.

Lower mass systems generate less inertia and accelerate faster allowing better "responsiveness". This allows the suspension to keep the wheel in contact with the ground more resulting in better traction and handling. For more on suspension systems see (link to page 3.4)

What about spring memory?
Many people refer to spring "memory", in fact the proper terminology is "resistance to set." When springs are said to lose their memory or "sack out" the spring has taken a permanent set.

Deflecting a spring results in stresses within the material. The amount of stress is proportional to the deflection imposed. As long as the imposed stress is lower than the yield strength of the material the spring will fully recover its initial length when the load is removed. If the stresses imposed exceed the yield strength of the material the spring will "take set" and will not fully recover its original free length when the load is removed.

It is important to understand that the spring rate is never affected by use. Even when springs take set their rate does not change. To compensate for set, the spring perches must be adjusted or spacers added to replace this lost length. Additionally the available travel of the spring is reduced by any set that it takes.

Properly designed titanium springs utilize the superior material properties to minimize or eliminate set entirely.

What about fatigue life?
The life of the spring to failure, discounting set, is affected by the magnitude and number of deflections that the spring is subjected to in relation to the material properties of tensile strength, ductility and toughness. Remember that steel springs for performance applications are designed "at the limit" to keep weight and size down. With titanium, replacements can be designed where the stresses are "backed-off" just slightly so that typically we can design for twice the life of the steel spring we are replacing. Experience is required of the spring designer to know what levels of stress can be sustained for each type of material used in springs.

That can also be alot of the manufacturer trying to biggie size the effects of it. I'm not putting down Ti springs though. I like the weight savings but can't feel a real difference unless I want to try to brag about how super my bike is. the effects they are talking about are really small and hardly noticable. The main reason people want a Ti spring is for the weigh savings.

 

[maxyedor]

Even if it is a placebo performance difference does it matter? Can't placebo help you lose weight and quit smoking? The point is they shave weight wich makes you faster, wich meens you have more fun, wich meens you ride more, wich again makes you faster, witch makes you more confident, wich again makes you still faster and the cycle goes on into infinity. SO THERE!

 

[binary visions]

Nobody will convince me that the "performance increase" of Ti is anything other than placebo.

There's nothing wrong with Ti springs. As I said, there's not another place on the bike where you can knock off that much weight with no sacrifice in durability or functionality. Great thing, IMO.

I'd say "Don't fool yourself into thinking it'll give you a performance increase," but frankly, if you can talk yourself into that and it'll give you increased confidence, then go for it!

 

[maxyedor]

bianary visions. I agree to some extent about the placebo, the main thing is the weight I save on my fly its like 3/4 of a pound because the spring is so bigs, but I would theorize that the spring is halfway between unsprung and sprung weight that the reduction in weight could lead to a livelyer suspension. But then again I also subsribe to the theory that the better looking your bike is the faster you go.