[steveDH]

What do you like about the frame and what do you think should be changed, maybe compared to other famous DH bikes...

I´m looking for a long lasting, uncomplicated, reliable race bike for the next few seasons. I like my bike nimble and agile. it should corner well and shouldn´t care about big stuff. I already own a Nomad mk2 and i really like it´s performance.

thanks for your answers

 

[TheMontashu]

Ummm, stay far far away from a v10. The newest gen is better, but with 10 inches of travel the thing isn't going to be so nimble. As far as being uncomplicated, that one is a fail too, they have something like 8 bearings on it. The zerks fittings help but they are far from simple. Reliability should be ok as long as you keep on the maintenance, use a grease gun OFTEN or you will be replacing bearings regularly. But honestly you are looking at the wrong bike. If you insist on SC go with the driver, but I would check out some other brand, if you want something simple, reliable, and that is nimble go check out a single pivot bike like a morewood.

That being said after 4 seasons on the 10, i have had allot of fun on it, but can't wait to get a bike that isn't a huge plow bike

 

[WBC]

with 10 inches of travel the thing isn't going to be so nimble...being uncomplicated, that one is a fail too...honestly you are looking at the wrong bike. If you insist on SC go with the driver,
can't wait to get a bike that isn't a huge plow bike

^^^ This guy has obviously not ridden a new gen V10 that is setup correctly for him - or at all.

The 08 (07?) and newer V10 is very light, very durable, very agile and not very complicated. The bearings are easy to change out and last as long as the bearings on pretty much any other frame.

I haven't owned one of the new gen V10s, but I used to sell them when I worked in a bike shop, and I've taken many runs on the bike. I sold one frame to a really good friend of mine that has been riding it for the past two years whom I ride with most of the time I ride. He is a super fast rider that has a reputation for breaking tons of ****, he rides in the Pacific NorthWest year round and doesn't shy away from hitting any line, jump, etc and hasn't had any real problems with the bike at all.

His bike is more nimble than my 951, and most of the VPP-related bearing problems have been ironed out in the last couple years between both brands, but especially SantaCruz. The SantaCruz bikes these past few years have used a very comprehensive seal system and some pretty high quality bearings, so I've seen an average life of about 2 seasons on PNW ridden V10's which is better than I've seen from a lot of frames (including SinglePivots). SantaCruz bikes in general have become one of the easiest to own of the "complex" linkage bikes (i.e. Intense, Giant, SC, IH, etc).

The ONLY reason why I'm not on a V10 is that at 250lbs naked, the old DHX 5.0 was a little hard to get setup to my liking...but most riders aren't 260lbs geared up.

 

[TheMontashu]

^^^ This guy has obviously not ridden a new gen V10 that is setup correctly for him - or at all.

The 08 (07?) and newer V10 is very light, very durable, very agile and not very complicated. The bearings are easy to change out and last as long as the bearings on pretty much any other frame.

I haven't owned one of the new gen V10s, but I used to sell them when I worked in a bike shop, and I've taken many runs on the bike. I sold one frame to a really good friend of mine that has been riding it for the past two years whom I ride with most of the time I ride. He is a super fast rider that has a reputation for breaking tons of ****, he rides in the Pacific NorthWest year round and doesn't shy away from hitting any line, jump, etc and hasn't had any real problems with the bike at all.

His bike is more nimble than my 951, and most of the VPP-related bearing problems have been ironed out in the last couple years between both brands, but especially SantaCruz. The SantaCruz bikes these past few years have used a very comprehensive seal system and some pretty high quality bearings, so I've seen an average life of about 2 seasons on PNW ridden V10's which is better than I've seen from a lot of frames (including SinglePivots). SantaCruz bikes in general have become one of the easiest to own of the "complex" linkage bikes (i.e. Intense, Giant, SC, IH, etc).

The ONLY reason why I'm not on a V10 is that at 250lbs naked, the old DHX 5.0 was a little hard to get setup to my liking...but most riders aren't 260lbs geared up.

Very light, agile and durable compared to the old one. Not very complicated you are trippin.

Lets look at the travel first- it's a 10 inch travel bike. The new V10's do feel more lively than the old ones but compared to a driver 8 or some other 8 inch travel bike it isn't going to compete.

Light- it's 10.5 pounds, which now seems to be the kind of average for DH frames, with the 9 pound range being light.

Durability- the thing wont break but all those bearings do wear out.

The whole simplicity thing- while it may not be hard to change out 8 bearings that is still 4 times as complex. As well there is only so much space behind the BB for linkage so there are limits to what size bearing you can use, where as on a big single pivot bike you can put in a HUGE main pivot.


while the V10 is a GREAT bike, and I have loved mine. It is not the bike that the guy is looking for. If he had said I want a DH bike that plows through **** and is super stable over high speed and down steep stuff then I would say V10 all the way. But he is asking for something that corners and is flickable, when compared to other bikes (even within the same brand) there are a ton of better choices.

 

[steveDH]

i read some reviews about the v10 and the driver and most people claim that the v10 is the better allrounder and even more nimble and agile than the driver.
At first i was looking for a bike with about 8inch cause i´ve been riding a M3 for one season and didn´t feel very comfortable on it. Tha turner DHR and the giant team dh i owned before felt much better. But after i collected some information about the v10 things have changed a little bit.
When looking at the geometry it seems that the v10 doesn´t follow the trend (low bb, slack ha, no 1.5,..) but all the good opinions about the bike can´t come from nowhere.....
my other favs are the revolt, the makulu or the 951...

 

[TheMontashu]

i read some reviews about the v10 and the driver and most people claim that the v10 is the better allrounder and even more nimble and agile than the driver.
At first i was looking for a bike with about 8inch cause i´ve been riding a M3 for one season and didn´t feel very comfortable on it. Tha turner DHR and the giant team dh i owned before felt much better. But after i collected some information about the v10 things have changed a little bit.
When looking at the geometry it seems that the v10 doesn´t follow the trend (low bb, slack ha, no 1.5,..) but all the good opinions about the bike can´t come from nowhere.....
my other favs are the revolt, the makulu or the 951...

The driver I rode felt GREAT, I thought the thing killed it compared to the 10. The V10's tend to be a little taller and steeper, but you have to remember they run a ton of sag, so when you're on the bike the geo is going to be a little more conventional.

Check out the new DHRs too. They run on bushings and have zerks fittings. Reliability should be good. The DW link rides AMAZING, and quality on turners stuff is ABSOLUTLY top notch second to none.

 

[Tetreault]

When i hear people talking about 8 inch bikes being more agile than the v10 i honestly just shake my head, recently this has been covered hundreds of times on this forum that geometry is far more important than the amount of travel, and such is the case with the v10. looking at the static geo numbers the v10 looks steep and generally very conservative, but like it was said above there is a tremendous amount of sag so in reality it levels out. with the sag in place, the actually compression difference in travel compared to something like a 951 is minimal, thus they actually feel quite similar besides the v10 feeling more planted due to the sag allowing for the wheel to stay on the ground more often. I found it is a amazingly agile bike, and the vpp works amazingly well giving such a huge bike a very lively feel when set up properly. I have never owned one, but do work with a few guys that do have one and have had the chance to ride them back to back with various intense, giant, cannondale, norco, and banshee bikes.

Not that i like to compared a bikes "awesomeness" to pro riders results but peat and minnar did finish 1 and 2 at worlds on a coarse that people said smaller more "agile" bikes would excell at. The v10 came on top

 

[AlmostHeaven]

Pic by Sicklines

Yeaa....the V-10 must reeeaaally suck

 

[dest]

^^^ This guy has obviously not ridden a new gen V10 that is setup correctly for him - or at all.

The 08 (07?) and newer V10 is very light, very durable, very agile and not very complicated. The bearings are easy to change out and last as long as the bearings on pretty much any other frame.

I haven't owned one of the new gen V10s, but I used to sell them when I worked in a bike shop, and I've taken many runs on the bike. I sold one frame to a really good friend of mine that has been riding it for the past two years whom I ride with most of the time I ride. He is a super fast rider that has a reputation for breaking tons of ****, he rides in the Pacific NorthWest year round and doesn't shy away from hitting any line, jump, etc and hasn't had any real problems with the bike at all.

His bike is more nimble than my 951, and most of the VPP-related bearing problems have been ironed out in the last couple years between both brands, but especially SantaCruz. The SantaCruz bikes these past few years have used a very comprehensive seal system and some pretty high quality bearings, so I've seen an average life of about 2 seasons on PNW ridden V10's which is better than I've seen from a lot of frames (including SinglePivots). SantaCruz bikes in general have become one of the easiest to own of the "complex" linkage bikes (i.e. Intense, Giant, SC, IH, etc).

The ONLY reason why I'm not on a V10 is that at 250lbs naked, the old DHX 5.0 was a little hard to get setup to my liking...but most riders aren't 260lbs geared up.

try the V10 with and AVY and youll never want another shock again i weight the same..

 

[Udi]

I owned and rode one of the new ones for a while, between sunday frames.

Likes:
- Absorbs bumps like no other, rough stuff disappears under it
- Very light frame, and doesn't seem to break like most others this light
- There's no replacement for 10" of travel
- Good fit and finish, nice welds

Dislikes:
- It's quite steep, even under sag it won't slacken out as much as "current" geo bikes. The team bikes are slacker from what I can gather, and it makes sense
- The BB is quite high; like the head angle it gets a bit better dynamically, but it is still fairly high. Pretty useful if there's lots of deep holes in your tracks / pedal smacking opportunities, but it could still afford to be 1/3 - 1/2" lower
- The front-centre is quite short, so the hand-foot distance is noticeably shorter than other bikes of the same size (also partly due to the high BB).
- Doesn't pedal as well as a dw-link, and a bit harder to hop over stuff than 8" travel bikes

In short, if your tracks are super rough and holey, the v10 will probably excel... however if the gradient is steep, personally I'm more comfortable on a slacker and lower frame.

 

[GoodbyePorkPie]

Pic by Sicklines

Yeaa....the V-10 must reeeaaally suck

Exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread

Didn;t that bike come 1 and 2 on the flattest shortest DH WC track of all time and win against lighter smaller travel bikes some with only 6" of travel.

If ever that bike should have been spanked it was Can beer rah

Oh and also coil shock while others were running fancy air rear shocks, shocking lol..

 

[norbar]

Exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread

Didn;t that bike come 1 and 2 on the flattest shortest DH WC track of all time and win against lighter smaller travel bikes some with only 6" of travel.

If ever that bike should have been spanked it was Can beer rah

Oh and also coil shock while others were running fancy air rear shocks, shocking lol..

Yes, you're right. The bike did all the winning, the guy on it was only marketing mumbo jumbo.

 

[buckoW]

not the same bike.

There is no point in saying that it was proven on the WC circuit if the race bikes have a much lower leverage ratio and slacker head angles with longer top tubes. The leverage ratio alone would change the feel completely different.

 

[steveDH]

maybe someone could compare the v10 to the makulu and the revolt?! would be very helpful!

 

[Iridemtb]

That top tube looks soooo long on that v-10.

 

[spleen123]

I rode a makulu with a CCDB and i own a 09 V10. Similar in the fact that they were both very plush. I love my V10. Get the sag set and it pedals like a hardtail and eats rocks like... like... a giant rock eating machine. All the bearings are the same so just buy ten or 20 bearings and never worry about bearings again. also very easy to replace.

Just stay up on the bearings and keep it clean. After windham GES this year (slop fest) I had to replace the lower link ($60) because the bearings seized and the shaft that was supposed to rotate with lower link stopped moving and ovalized the link. No big deal.

Also it corners great. I do not notice the steep head angle because when your sag is set and your weight is on the bike the head angle is 65/64 degrees.

I love my v10!

 

[TheTruth]

Ummm, stay far far away from a v10. The newest gen is better, but with 10 inches of travel the thing isn't going to be so nimble. As far as being uncomplicated, that one is a fail too, they have something like 8 bearings on it. The zerks fittings help but they are far from simple. Reliability should be ok as long as you keep on the maintenance, use a grease gun OFTEN or you will be replacing bearings regularly. But honestly you are looking at the wrong bike. If you insist on SC go with the driver, but I would check out some other brand, if you want something simple, reliable, and that is nimble go check out a single pivot bike like a morewood.

That being said after 4 seasons on the 10, i have had allot of fun on it, but can't wait to get a bike that isn't a huge plow bike

You sir, are an ass. Do you even know what v-10 means?

The V10 is an amazing bike. It has 8.75 eye to eye and it pedals great. It is light and will last you a great deal of time. You just need to maintain it. So far I have ridden a sunday, turner, morewood, and even a canfield. while those bikes are nice, the v10 has no comparison.

 

[pterodactyl]

I have raced the 2nd and now 3rd gen for 5 seasons in the Northeast US. I think the frames are great, but I would ad zircs for all bearings. Other than that it is built what it is designed for.
Great bike, but I would think a single pivot with a higher location might be more what you are looking for based on your post:
Single pivot is simple ( I have replaced bearings and rebuilt my V-10 frames a few times and it is certainly more work than a SP)
A higher pivot location is great for plowing over stuff as well. Shock set up for a single pivot is usually simpler than some of the linkage bikes.

I would look at something like Xprezo Furax. It doesn't necessarily have a high pivot but is very simple and easy to tune and maintain.

 

[dropmachine]

not the same bike.

There is no point in saying that it was proven on the WC circuit if the race bikes have a much lower leverage ratio and slacker head angles with longer top tubes. The leverage ratio alone would change the feel completely different.

Come on dood, really? You think that .25" of extra stroke makes it into an entirely different bike? From what I've heard (purely hearsay here) the .25 extra just allows for a bit of extra oil, allowing the shock to handle longer courses better. Thats it. The lower leverage doesn't do much at all for any other aspect. Again, just hearsay, but seems reasonable.

AND from what I have heard, Peat's HA is the same as stock. Its just longer, cause hes longer. That said, I'm 6'3 and fit on my large no problem.

 

[norbar]

Come on dood, really? You think that .25" of extra stroke makes it into an entirely different bike? From what I've heard (purely hearsay here) the .25 extra just allows for a bit of extra oil, allowing the shock to handle longer courses better. Thats it. The lower leverage doesn't do much at all for any other aspect. Again, just hearsay, but seems reasonable.

AND from what I have heard, Peat's HA is the same as stock. Its just longer, cause hes longer. That said, I'm 6'3 and fit on my large no problem.

And are you sure that with the longer shock they managed to keep the lev. curves exactly the same? I highly doubt that.

 

[aj-monkey]

Honestly you shouldn't let the opinions on here set the deal for you. They are all subjective to a point. Ideally you can go for a quick spin on the bikes that you are looking for. Good Luck.

 

[vincent]

I raced a 3rd gen v10 in 2008 and here's my opinion for what it's worth.

I Change bike every season and managed to break all of my frames (including 1st gen v10) with the exception of my 2008 v10. The v10 is also the only frame that never needed new bearings and never developed any kind of play (There is a LOT of mud where I ride). This bike was literally trouble free. I can also say that it is not the most nimble bike I had but it was far from not being agile. My only complain was that I had a hard time to adapt to the geometry but I really miss the bike for everything else.

 

[Lelandjt]

Absolutely LOVE my 3rd gen V10. I wouldn't want the BB any lower since I've occasionally clipped the taco on bumpy landings. The large has a very roomy top tube. Even with hard use and the high leverage ratio I've had no shock problems and get my shock rebuilt every 2 years. This bike can be setup to be very nimble, light, and snappy feeling. I frequently use mine for dirt jumping and pedaly freeride. Also, it's just so refined feeling and looking (carbon mud guard).

 

[spocomptonrider]

By far the best bike I have ever thrown a leg over. Takes a bit of getting used too and a bit more to get set up correctly but once you get it dialed I couldn't thing of an area where it lacks in performance. As for Monatshyahoo's comments, not heavy, I would rather have a 10.3 lb frame that can take a hammering than a 9+lb frame that dents from hanging off a tailgate on a bumpy road (socom). Pedals great, jumps amazing, sits low in corners, pops out of them, absolutely destroys rough sections of track. I will admit its not for everyone but if it suits your style I can't think of a better bike. Pick up a November issue of dirt if you don't believe me. Read what the usually hyper-critical bike reviewers have to say about it, and even more what they have to say about the Driver8 in comparison.

-edit- I did have to go away from a LG1 (which is not recommended by Santa Cruz in the first place) as I kept smashing the taco in the ground which resulted in a semi-stripped bolt on the ISCG mount otherwise, no complaints. Had I heeded their warnings in the first place this problem would not exist.

 

[Lelandjt]

There's no way to read that article (even paying) on their website or elsewhere on the internet, is there?

 

[spocomptonrider]

There's no way to read that article (even paying) on their website or elsewhere on the internet, is there?

Not that I know of. If I had access to a scanner I would post it, alas I do not.

The noteworthy quotes were "blah blah blah... I think you would be crazy to buy the Driver over the V-10. More than anything it has reminded me of just how fantastic the V-10 really is. Having previously ridden production V-10's with 40% sag, it wasn't a bike at the top of my list, but now having had a fresh look, and with less sag the bike is less affected by weight transfer, and like I said, super quick being in a better part of the suspension curve. Its also such a better bike than the M6 we rode earlier in the year, the V-10 having more antisquat a better leverage, lighter swingarm and better geometry. Again it leaves me struggling to think why (note- why the Driver at all). Its a great idea but I feel the execution whilst being the expected Santa Cruz quality, isn't perfect. Fitting a set of headset reducers would make it more stable but won't take away from its slightly more lumpy nature compared to its brother. It probably won't make it much faster either. (V-10 vs. Driver)

There is no doubt you can alter the characteristic ride of the V-10 should you desire, you can also fit a hydraulic seatpost, should you desire. More than anything the V-10 simply feels so much better and its faster. If anything was learned (or reminded) out of the Driver vs V-10 comparison then its that if you're looking for a great all around race bike for next year you know where to look."

It was a bit more of a comparison between the two more than anything but they still had no problems calling it like they saw it, fantastic bike.

 

[ZHendo]

i used to be a huge hater of the V10. i never really liked the VPP feel in a longer travel bike, the VP Free and older V10 were pigs. my dad rides an older intense 5.5 EVP that i think is tons of fun, and while i'm not especially keen on intense after seeing and hearing about some of their issues, i think santa cruz has kind of taken over the image that intense used to have. their bikes are well thought out and well built, and they have refined the VPP platform to a level that is more congruent with the performance of the shorter travel VPP bikes. i have noodled around on one of the newer V10s, and while i can't say too much about it, i noticed that once in its travel the bike tends to sit pretty well. the leverage curve that santa cruz has designed creates a pretty solid pedaling platform but still allows the bike to be nice and sensitive on the small bumps.

as for the bearing issues, it really stems from santa cruz only being able to use smaller bearings, but that is a characteristic of most dual link bikes. VPP puts a lot of stress on the pivots because of the highly manipulated leverage curve, but with VPP2, santa cruz smoothed the leverage curve a bit, lowered the leverage ratio of the bike, and inserted zerks fittings. the result is a bike that puts a bit less stress on the bearings, and with the new seals and the ability to keep the bearings greased, they seem to last quite a while. also, if i'm not mistaken, doesn't santa cruz offer a lifetime bearing warranty?

i think the main thing that drives people away from the V10 is the 10 inches of travel. people see that number and freak out because it is 125% of the travel that you see on most DH bikes. 125% of the travel does not equal 125% of the handling of other bikes. santa cruz has worked out some solid geometry through extensive testing, and i actually read somewhere that the V10 is among the easiest bikes to get on and just go fast (i think it was an article comparing a few bikes with the Empire AP-1). VPP isn't for everyone, i have yet to decide if i really like it over a simple single pivot, but if you like your nomad i think you'd probably be pretty happy with a V10.

 

[norbar]

Pick up a November issue of dirt if you don't believe me. Read what the usually hyper-critical bike reviewers have to say about it, and even more what they have to say about the Driver8 in comparison..

I think you've been reading a different magazine. Jonsey being hyper critical? The worst review of his I've seen there was the 2stage and the crown 1 month ago and he still was concentrating on the positives and was very caucious about pointing out the flaws (especialy that I'm pretty sure Corsair advertises at dirt).
Also he always reviews bike for typical uk track so if your local trails are different the bike may be not so good at them.

 

[buckoW]

Come on dood, really? You think that .25" of extra stroke makes it into an entirely different bike? From what I've heard (purely hearsay here) the .25 extra just allows for a bit of extra oil, allowing the shock to handle longer courses better. Thats it. The lower leverage doesn't do much at all for any other aspect. Again, just hearsay, but seems reasonable.

AND from what I have heard, Peat's HA is the same as stock. Its just longer, cause hes longer. That said, I'm 6'3 and fit on my large no problem.

I think it would make a big difference as far as running more compression, for example, to give the bike more support in g-out situations and general pinning. They also used existing parts and links so there were some limitations in the construction which might have changed some things. I am just saying it is not exactly the same bike. Weren't they playing with bb height and head angle in the last round of testing?

 

[krustydude]

I've been a Turner guy for years and one of my riding friends has had an M3, Sunday, and Revolt. I've ridden his bikes numerous times and every time I rode one I realized how much I loved my Turner. I got a 3rd gen. v-10 this summer and love the hell out of it. It's more nimble than my old Turner and ploughs through the rough just as well, probably a little better. Changes direction with ease. The Revolt is an amazing bike as well, for me i changed direction a little better than the v-10. It is heavier and feels it, but handles a little better. I can't explain how it works, but it's an amazing bike too. All up to you, but if you get a v-10 I think you'll be more than happy with it.

 

[spocomptonrider]

I think you've been reading a different magazine. Jonsey being hyper critical? The worst review of his I've seen there was the 2stage and the crown 1 month ago and he still was concentrating on the positives and was very caucious about pointing out the flaws (especialy that I'm pretty sure Corsair advertises at dirt).
Also he always reviews bike for typical uk track so if your local trails are different the bike may be not so good at them.

Psssh