When should you put the bike into a skid while on a local trail?
Trail Etiquette: Skidding...
- Thread starter ultraNoob
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Never.
Thread closed.
Thread closed.
Never skid, when properly done it is called drifting.
If you're skidding, you're no longer slowing down as efficiently as if you're not.
You're also not in control. Fail.
Never.
You're also not in control. Fail.
Never.
I skid only when climbing. But mostly because I run out of gas and slide backwards.
While not necessarily always true (see brake blip to get back end sliding to steer with rear wheel), you should never hold an extended skid. That just kills trails.
drifting implies that your tires are still spinning unaffected by your brakes
If you're new on a trail and come into a corner real hot, where the penalty for failure is falling off a cliff or taking out cactus, is it ok to lock your rear brake and whip your rear end out.... is what I'm trying to say.
Don't do it unless you're gonna bite it or something and you have to save it. The only time I'll do it on purpose is on a race course and it makes sense.
As a matter of riding theory, the answer is still no. If you are riding a new trail you should slow down so you can anticipate surprises like that.
So that's theory, and that's what you should strive for. As a matter of real world riding experience, sure there are times when skids happen. It usually means you are out of control or you don't know how to use your front brake. Either way, no it's not ok.
You need traction to brake quickly. If you are skidding you have lost traction and it will take you longer to stop. That's why cars have anti-lock braking systems (ABS).
Joker is right that sometimes a "blip" will help with angle corrections but that is not the same as locking your brakes and sliding down the trail in a full skid.
Ah yes, the Pac Blue turn. My friends and I know it well.
Skidding on gravel roads is OK.
Yup. You shouldn't be going full clip if it's your first time on a particular trail.
edit: to use a moto term, i think the kind of 'blip' you are referring to is called a cutty?
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I am never moving fast enough to generate a skid.
Didn't get enough abuse from STR about skidding down SJT?
Whenever I see gravel, or slippery edges, I like to arrive in style.
Nothing has more style than a broad slide.
Nothing has more style than a broad slide.
I wasn't going full clip, I coulda gone faster but I didn't know the trail. Sorry Sluck, but that's the truth.
Ask anyone who knows me... I'm actually a little sadistic . Besides, I've been here longer than there. I place larger bias to what RM thinks.... maybe it's because RM is worldwide and pools thoughts from a bigger tank.... or maybe it's because I think you're sexy... I guess that depends on how much I've had to drink
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I'm on my second glass of scotch.
Sucks that I'm working OT tonight... what doesn't suck is that i have a flask of this in my desk
is your mouth watering yet?
Brakes are heavy and will only slow you down.
You should always sprint down unfamiliar trails.
And helmets are for losers...
You should always sprint down unfamiliar trails.
And helmets are for losers...
...which is bad trail design, and it isn't just braking on those that leads to erosion, but a lot of the erosion comes from water running down the trail.
One of the most damaging things to a trail are puddles, the kind that make deep holes if not fixed, and the kind that people go around, making a wide spot.
On the trails I ride, most all are built to IMBA standards (not too steep, etc.) and it's rare that I see skid marks. I have to say that it's fine to skid, or put the brakes on hard, if you really need to. Even if you are being careful on an unfamiliar trail, unexpected things can come up. Last time I had to skid was a few weeks ago, on an unfamiliar trail. The trail was basically straight down a hill (enough to go fast, but not super steep) with a very slight curve to the left. The ground was wet and the trail was clay with some rock, so it was slippery. Going down the hill I had just enough speed that I didn't want to corner hard, slipped/got a bit too far to the edge of the trail and was in line with a tree that was right at the edge of the trail. When I knew I couldn't get back into the middle of the trail fast enough, I had to pull my brakes hard (rear brake, and the edge of the trail was mossy and slick) and I slid on the back wheel for a second before I was able to fishtail/whip myself back onto the trail JUST in time. I missed the tree by a foot or two. I was being careful and all, but I didn't anticipate getting stuck off the edge of the trail like I did.
I work on trails all the time here and I don't like to see skidding, but if the only other option is hitting a tree or something, it's fine to skid, since it doesn't happen too often, one skid won't kill the trail.
We are talking about mountain bikes right? Because, I know I am going to say it, EVERYONE SKIDS!!!!! Its going to happen, but I think what is to question here is intentional skidding. Always throwing into a turn super hard where you are skidding to keep control as part of normal riding, Ok, not so great. But its going to happen, your going to come into a corner too hot, something is going to be differnt about your local spot, IE, Trail maintanace that has changed the trails turns, IE Rain rutters<Thats what I call them> in a corner that your not used to having and you need to change a line or crash.
On top of the uncrollable circumstance, everyone riding Mtn bikes is already skidding a bit no matter what your doing, its just part of a normal ride. IT HAPPENS....
I look at it like this, this past Sunday, I layed out a pretty gnarly skid. I wasnt going overly fast, I wasnt going slow, but there was a newish rock I had not seen before, and as I came around the corner, there was also a hiker, in the event of the rock, combined with the hiker, combined with the nasty ass tumble, I took skid.... I was already slowing to compensate for this particular rock and to adjust my line accordingly, I also needed to not Plow into a hiker taking bot him, and myself over the side into a tumble. I didnt dust him out, I didnt ride to a point where he had to jump out of the way I skidded into a new line and was able to stop in total control in time to giv ethe hiker RoW as I am suppsed to. He even said Sorry for getting in my way. Our hikers in the locals here are pretty damn cool to bikers up there. I am spoiled in that matter here.
As far as the braking stutter on steep stuff, I agree with Sanjuro onthis one. If you need to brake realyl hard on a steep section, and Im not talking stupid steep, but if your digging your rear tire in and making Mad brake chatter on the hill, you probably shouldnt be riding that section till your skill level gets better, and you can control the slide of your rear tire better, and stay in better control in the first place. I used to pretty much drag the rear wheel and carve down steep stuff, because its all I knew, I stopped hitting really steep stuff for awhile..... I couldnt afford the tires I kept ruining.....Then I got better with my riding skills, went for some steep stuff again, Much more control, speed, and Much less tire sliding with no braking stutter.
Bottom line, If your on a trail, its going to wear. Hiking, Horseback, Riding are all hard on the trails, and Lets get serious, Horses just walking the trails are FAR worse on the trails than a Mtn bike will ever be, we all know this, Specially when the trails get wet. Horse tracks are also much worse than brake stutter.
On top of the uncrollable circumstance, everyone riding Mtn bikes is already skidding a bit no matter what your doing, its just part of a normal ride. IT HAPPENS....
I look at it like this, this past Sunday, I layed out a pretty gnarly skid. I wasnt going overly fast, I wasnt going slow, but there was a newish rock I had not seen before, and as I came around the corner, there was also a hiker, in the event of the rock, combined with the hiker, combined with the nasty ass tumble, I took skid.... I was already slowing to compensate for this particular rock and to adjust my line accordingly, I also needed to not Plow into a hiker taking bot him, and myself over the side into a tumble. I didnt dust him out, I didnt ride to a point where he had to jump out of the way I skidded into a new line and was able to stop in total control in time to giv ethe hiker RoW as I am suppsed to. He even said Sorry for getting in my way. Our hikers in the locals here are pretty damn cool to bikers up there. I am spoiled in that matter here.
As far as the braking stutter on steep stuff, I agree with Sanjuro onthis one. If you need to brake realyl hard on a steep section, and Im not talking stupid steep, but if your digging your rear tire in and making Mad brake chatter on the hill, you probably shouldnt be riding that section till your skill level gets better, and you can control the slide of your rear tire better, and stay in better control in the first place. I used to pretty much drag the rear wheel and carve down steep stuff, because its all I knew, I stopped hitting really steep stuff for awhile..... I couldnt afford the tires I kept ruining.....Then I got better with my riding skills, went for some steep stuff again, Much more control, speed, and Much less tire sliding with no braking stutter.
Bottom line, If your on a trail, its going to wear. Hiking, Horseback, Riding are all hard on the trails, and Lets get serious, Horses just walking the trails are FAR worse on the trails than a Mtn bike will ever be, we all know this, Specially when the trails get wet. Horse tracks are also much worse than brake stutter.
I love skidding.
When I was younger we found an old axe blade without the handle. We laid it out in the street, on the hill I lived on and would lock our rear brakes once the back tire rolled across it. Spark flying skids the whole length of the hill!
Another awsome one is skidding on a plastic serving tray from a cafeteria. Plastic and cement = awsomeness!
I don't skid on trails though...
When I was younger we found an old axe blade without the handle. We laid it out in the street, on the hill I lived on and would lock our rear brakes once the back tire rolled across it. Spark flying skids the whole length of the hill!
Another awsome one is skidding on a plastic serving tray from a cafeteria. Plastic and cement = awsomeness!
I don't skid on trails though...
Well, d'oh, yes. I endeavor not to skid but sometimes it happens.
I skid in my underwear, when i'm actually wearing some.
I started out as an XC rider. So whenever i ride, i try not to skid just out of habit. I've only really found skidding useful a few times downhillin when i needed to kick the back end out so i wouldn't clip something on the inside of a trail. I hate doing it. I feel guilty doing it. I just try to stick with my braking threshold. Sometimes it happens. But only for a few inches here and there. I quit trying to skid far when i was a kid.
There's a sign at one of the local resorts. It says "skidding shows poor form". Kinda funny. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. But i try my hardest not to do it just because i've been chewed out for it when i very first started riding.
I started out as an XC rider. So whenever i ride, i try not to skid just out of habit. I've only really found skidding useful a few times downhillin when i needed to kick the back end out so i wouldn't clip something on the inside of a trail. I hate doing it. I feel guilty doing it. I just try to stick with my braking threshold. Sometimes it happens. But only for a few inches here and there. I quit trying to skid far when i was a kid.
There's a sign at one of the local resorts. It says "skidding shows poor form". Kinda funny. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. But i try my hardest not to do it just because i've been chewed out for it when i very first started riding.
A rolling tire is a gripping tire, but sometimes, for that brief second, you might not need grip.
If you're skidding on a steep use more front brake and get your weight back. i think we are blessed with the longest continual steepest multi-user trail and even on that trail i rarely skid. And it's great practice on braking, as you are literally forced to take breaks from the ride to cool down the rotors.
i think it sucks that commercials and bike movies that showcase XC biking generally show riders skidding alot. Me personally i think flow and grace are something to aspire towards within your technical riding, but of course then it just looks effortless and not extreme, so you don't sell goods or your vids...
i think it sucks that commercials and bike movies that showcase XC biking generally show riders skidding alot. Me personally i think flow and grace are something to aspire towards within your technical riding, but of course then it just looks effortless and not extreme, so you don't sell goods or your vids...
I think everyone here has the right attitude towards skidding. It sucks. Don't.
...but yeah, if you're going to roll into a tree or (in AZ's case, a cactus) then you gotta do what you gotta do.
...but yeah, if you're going to roll into a tree or (in AZ's case, a cactus) then you gotta do what you gotta do.
Skidding sucks.
That said... there's one trail that I skid on pretty much every time I ride it...
I need a bigger front tire JUST for that trail.
That said... there's one trail that I skid on pretty much every time I ride it...
I need a bigger front tire JUST for that trail.
Skidding isn't going to do anywhere near as much damage as mountainbikers have over the years. The sport has grown huge and thereby killed green and left brown. Brown runs under rain, and creates drainage ditches, rutts and crevises. Which make for GREAT technical riding I might add. I like skidding once in a while when stopping. But I always skid on super steep sections in the technicals. Got to. The rest of the world is killing the earth a hell of a lot worse than my 2.5 nobby. But I did stop riding in the rain though to protect it a little bit.
While I agree with the fact that the rest of the world is doing much more harm to the environment than our 2-5 foot long skids on already barren trail are...I think more of the point is that we, as mountain bikers, need to be perceived as good environmental stewards. The last thing we need is some Sierra Club'er to find a giant tire skid in the middle of their favorite trail while out on a hike. That's the quickest way to loose access.
Huh? If you are going to talk about trail damage the two primary reasons mt. bikes cause trail damage would be skidding which creates ruts and stutter bumps. Many times it's from riders who are not good riders as they roll too hot and brake excessively. The other is riding in poor weather conditions which you have stated you refrain from doing, good for you.
Mountain bikers advocates here do a Boot Camp. Classes held for riders from Beginner to Intermediate level. One of the things taught in the class is proper braking, which will make you a better rider. So i don't really know what you're talking about with your comment, anywhere near as much damage as mt bikers have over the years. i really don't know what you're talking about.
When you make a trail you are getting rid of organic soil. Fertile poopy vegetation stuff that plants like to grow in. The brown you are referring to is called Mineral Soil, which consists of sand,clay, and silt. What percentage of sand, clay, silt varies from region to region.
If you are doing proper trail work you cut a trail that won't degrade. You can armor a trail where if you skid you are skidding on rock, or mineral soil with alot of rock in it, or even concrete pavers. You fix or make trail that won't rut by routing the trail smartly, put a berm here, or an insloped corner, or a grade reversal, or a chicane. These are all easy things to do, but what makes a good trail builder is where you put them, where the trail is protected but is still fun.
i understand what you're saying about ruts making great technical challenges, but trust me when those ruts get bigger and bigger, they stop being fun and just become annoying, EVEN if you can and when you clear them.
Also if you have a trail that is re-routed and you want to re-establish the trail back to nature. There are a few tricks you do, and nature does it's job and reclaims the trail, in some areas it only takes a year or two.
No you never "got to". i've ridden on pretty much near vertical rock chutes and the last thing you want to do is skid. But even if i did skid on rock, you cannot create a rut in rock.
Skidding once in a while when stopping is a trait that i left behind on my plastic big wheel, but i do think that an occasional obnoxious power skid on forest/fire roads are funny especially when there is alot of gravel/rocks to kick up.
i power skid to the left myself...
This is so true, but we are getting trails closed to us by people who say mt. biking is bad for the environment. i would hope many mt. bikers learn more of trail building and advocacy in mt. biking clubs. By learning just a little bit, we have alot of good things to gain, and alot to lose. If only a higher percentage of mt. bikers gave more than just a rats ass.