[MMcG]

Hey Monkeys.

I recently added a Z1 FR on the front of my Balfa Belair (4.5" travel trail bike) and over the weekend I was running it with a 110 mm stem - the Z1 FR is taller than the Talas it replaced and I do like how it slackened out my HT angle, but I noticed that the steering was a tad sluggish running the 110mm stem on it.

I'm thinking a shorter stem might quicken the steering a bit, but I don't want to go too short and sacrifice my ability to climb.

I just put a much shorter stem on the bike last night (possibly a 70mm stem - not sure exactly - got it used with a dual crown fork that is on my cheeta) and the steering was noticeably better (at least riding around my apartment complex) but I think it's probably too short for good climbing performance (I'll have to test it).

Just curious at to what forks and stems you guys and gals are running on your trail bikes (note - not big heavy FR bikes and not lightweight XC race bikes).

Thanks!

Mark

 

[golgiaparatus]

My trailbike is running 5" of pretty cushy travel with a 100 mm stem. I could probably benefit from a slightly smaller stem... and I probably will next time I'm at the shop and thinking about it (I said that 2 years ago too though).

 

[MMcG]

My trailbike is running 5" of pretty cushy travel with a 100 mm stem. I could probably benefit from a slightly smaller stem... and I probably will next time I'm at the shop and thinking about it (I said that 2 years ago too though).

What fork and what brand of stem are you running? Any rise to the stem? I'm thinking Zero rise for my stems on this set-up i have going, or 5 degree rise max.

 

[jacksonpt]

I'm running a 100mm Yeti stem on my 575 with a Talas R fork. The steering is quick, and the cockpit is short. The short cockpit makes it easy to get forward on the bike for climbs and back on teh bike for descents. But it does feel a little cramped on long rollign sections of trail - where I'm not moving around on the saddle much. That's fine with me because those sections are few and far between where I ride. The short stem does make it harder to lean over the front of the bike on really nasty climbs... I find I have to actually move my body forward on the saddle - soemthing I didn't have to do on my old XC bike.

 

[MMcG]

I'm running a 100mm Yeti stem on my 575 with a Talas R fork. The steering is quick, and the cockpit is short. Makes it easy to get forward on teh bike for climbs and back on teh bike for descents. But it does feel a little cramped on long rollign sections of trail - where I'm not moving around on the saddle much. That's fine with me because those sections are few and far between where I ride.

Are you diggin the Yeti Jackson?

Good points of the bike?

Bad points?

Overall impression so far?

Would love to hear your thoughts now that you've put some miles on that rig.

 

[Mackie]

Hey Monkeys.

I recently added a Z1 FR on the front of my Balfa Belair (4.5" travel trail bike) and over the weekend I was running it with a 110 mm stem - the Z1 FR is taller than the Talas it replaced and I do like how it slackened out my HT angle, but I noticed that the steering was a tad sluggish running the 110mm stem on it.

I'm thinking a shorter stem might quicken the steering a bit, but I don't want to go too short and sacrifice my ability to climb.

I just put a much shorter stem on the bike last night (possibly a 70mm stem - not sure exactly - got it used with a dual crown fork that is on my cheeta) and the steering was noticeably better (at least riding around my apartment complex) but I think it's probably too short for good climbing performance (I'll have to test it).

Just curious at to what forks and stems you guys and gals are running on your trail bikes (note - not big heavy FR bikes and not lightweight XC race bikes).

Thanks!

Mark

2003 Z1 SL, and 90mm x 5 degree stem. It's a tough tall though - might like a zero rise a bit better.

 

[golgiaparatus]

What fork and what brand of stem are you running? Any rise to the stem? I'm thinking Zero rise for my stems on this set-up i have going, or 5 degree rise max.

STEM: Titec Big AL 90mm (not 100 sorry), 10 degrees of rise.
FORK: 02 Manitou Black 120 mm slightly modified with thicker oil and some stiffer Ti springs. Like to have a Z1 eventually but with regular rebuilds the Black is still working like new so I cant justify it, however it looks like it has seen better days

 

[-BB-]

IH Hollowpoint with a Vanilla 125 rl and a 70mm stem.
Tried both longer (100-110) and shorter(45), but I like the 70mm best.

 

[jacksonpt]

Are you diggin the Yeti Jackson?

Good points of the bike?

Bad points?

Overall impression so far?

Would love to hear your thoughts now that you've put some miles on that rig.

Oh man I LOVE it. Now that I've ridden it a bit, I would have built it slightly different, but I have no real complaints. It is fast and smooth, stiff and strong. I can't imagine being happier with a bike.

All the extra travel did take some getting used to though. And to a point, I'm still adjusting. It's much more important that I spin rather than mash the pedals - mashing makes me "bounce" a little on rough ground. The geometry took some getting used to. I used to be able to lean forward a bit on climbs and that was enough to keep the front wheel down. Now I have to physically move myself forward on the saddle. Not a huge deal, just took some getting used to.

I'm hoping to get up to see Victor (Trailblazers) next week and have him look at the way the bike fits me. I'm having a hard time spinning (pushing down AND pulling up on the pedals), and I've read that the way the bike fits could have a lot to do with it.

Anyways - I love it. My only regret is that I can't ride more. I'd probably divorce my wife if I thought I could marry my bike.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Hey Monkeys.
Just curious at to what forks and stems you guys and gals are running on your trail bikes (note - not big heavy FR bikes and not lightweight XC race bikes).

Thanks!

Mark

Mark

WHen I first got my SC Heckler I was trying to come close to matching the geometry (or at least the cockpit controls) to the Fisher Sugar I was coming off. In order to do that I went with a 120mm 5 degree rise stem. Well a little while after that I got hurt (non biking) and was off the bike for a good 4 months. During that time I figured what the heck I will put on a shorter stem since I knew I was going to have a re-learning curve anyway. I went with a 90mm 5degree rise Thomson stem. It has really made the bike handle the way it is supposed to. Not that there is anything wrong with a longer stem, but the shorter stem just gives you better control in tight situations, and makes lifting the front end all that much better. As far as climbing I did not really feel a difference. I live in FL where the only "climbing" is short and steep. However I did go to NC where I was on some pretty sustained climbing.

I say the benefits of the shorter stem will far out weigh the slight drawback you might get in climbing.

 

[wooglin]

Rigid fork. 90mm stem.

 

[MMcG]

Rigid fork. 90mm stem.

that's what I have on my Marin SS - rigid Marin cromo fork and a 90mm x 10 degree stem - feels good. (well it rattles the crap out of my bones going over rocks and stuff, but steering-wise it feels good)

 

[binary visions]

Still got that 90mm Titec, Mark?

I found 90mm was a happy medium for trail biking. Not quite as stretched out as the 110mm which puts you in a very XC riding position, but not too short.

I ride a 50mm for everything though - I found climbing performance didn't suffer as much as my riding improved, so the benifits were worth the slight disadvantage. I don't climb all day though.

 

[blue]

I've got a 100mm rf prodigy stem with a 100mm Zoke Marathon. It's an xc race bike, but thats the one place I cut it to make it bearable to just "trailride" or whatnot.

 

[MMcG]

Still got that 90mm Titec, Mark?

I found 90mm was a happy medium for trail biking. Not quite as stretched out as the 110mm which puts you in a very XC riding position, but not too short.

I ride a 50mm for everything though - I found climbing performance didn't suffer as much as my riding improved, so the benifits were worth the slight disadvantage. I don't climb all day though.

The Titec is on My Marin and it feels great on there. The Marin is now a fully rigid ghettorigged singlespeed hardtail and that stem works great on it. I have that stem with the ten degree rise and some wide Titec hellbent bars on it - a good combination.

Hell maybe I'll just try and ride the Belair with the current stem on it and see how it feels. The 110 just seemed too long this weekend at the Kingdom Trails.

 

[binary visions]

The Titec is on My Marin and it feels great on there. The Marin is now a fully rigid ghettorigged singlespeed hardtail and that stem works great on it. I have that stem with the ten degree rise and some wide Titec hellbent bars on it - a good combination.

Hell maybe I'll just try and ride the Belair with the current stem on it and see how it feels. The 110 just seemed too long this weekend at the Kingdom Trails.

Glad the Titec is getting some good use.

That's what I'd do if I were you. See if you really notice the hit in climbing - you're running a very tall, heavy fork on there, so you'll probably notice that before the shorter stem anyhow. If it turns out it feels too short after several rides, try out the 90mm - I think that 110mm is way too long running a 5" fork as a trail bike, unless you have ape-like arms.

 

[MMcG]

Glad the Titec is getting some good use.

That's what I'd do if I were you. See if you really notice the hit in climbing - you're running a very tall, heavy fork on there, so you'll probably notice that before the shorter stem anyhow. If it turns out it feels too short after several rides, try out the 90mm - I think that 110mm is way too long running a 5" fork as a trail bike, unless you have ape-like arms.

Yeah the Titec was a good bargain! Thanks again.

And nope, no ape-like arms on this Monkey!
Actually I think my arms are kinda short.

I'll give the stem that's on there now a shot and bump up incrementally from there if I need to.

 

[binary visions]

I'll give the stem that's on there now a shot and bump up incrementally from there if I need to.

I'll have to try and wear you down to a 50mm... or 35mm even... :evil:

 

[MMcG]

I'll have to try and wear you down to a 50mm... or 35mm even... :evil:

I've got a 50 on my Cheeta now.

 

[UltraViolet]

the stem is one of my fave parts of the bike for some reason; on my single speed i'm running a 130 mm with a negative 10 degrees of rise with flat bars... oh yeah, for me, thats allmost sexual

 

[jdcamb]

Very interesting thread. Mark how many spacers are you running? Can you lower your handlebars by moving the stem spacers over the stem instead of under? I always cut steerer tubes a lot longer then need be just so I can change the front end around if need be. IMO a trail bike should get you comfortably down the trail no matter what it throws at you. You know my setup and it is neither climbing or descending specific because of the adjustablity of my Talas. I run a Thompson 105 stem and that keeps me kind of neutral. I can still stand or seated climb efficiently and in comfort. But not so far back as to scare the crap out of you going down. You may not consider my bike a trail bike but it does get me down and up them....jdcamb

 

[MMcG]

Very interesting thread. Mark how many spacers are you running? Can you lower your handlebars by moving the stem spacers over the stem instead of under? I always cut steerer tubes a lot longer then need be just so I can change the front end around if need be. IMO a trail bike should get you comfortably down the trail no matter what it throws at you. You know my setup and it is neither climbing or descending specific because of the adjustablity of my Talas. I run a Thompson 105 stem and that keeps me kind of neutral. I can still stand or seated climb efficiently and in comfort. But not so far back as to scare the crap out of you going down. You may not consider my bike a trail bike but it does get me down and up them....jdcamb

Jim,

Yep my steerer tube is long enough to allow for spacers above and below the stem so I can play around with height a bit. With my bike and the seat tube angle, when I raise it up to optimal riding hight it stretches my effective top tube out and that's why I think the 110mm felt too long. I just rode some urban tonight with the short FR/DH type stem and that felt better but it may be too short for trails. I think a 75mm or a 90mm stem might just be the ticket for my Belair with Z1 on it.

Thanks for your input Jim, and yep I'd consider your bike a trail bike most definitely.

 

[Rip]

I am liking my Race Face Diaboulus on my Stuff(Yes, I still haven't assembled the other bikes yet.)

 

[Skookum]

Hey Monkeys.

I recently added a Z1 FR on the front of my Balfa Belair (4.5" travel trail bike) and over the weekend I was running it with a 110 mm stem - the Z1 FR is taller than the Talas it replaced and I do like how it slackened out my HT angle, but I noticed that the steering was a tad sluggish running the 110mm stem on it.

you should have never took off your talas if you didn't need to. The Z1 is too big of a fork for that bike. You're always going to have problems now doing technical climbing regardless of what you do to your stem and/or spacers. Gonna descend and come off stuff easier, so i suppose it's all in what you want to feel more comfortable doing. Personally i need all the help going uphill and downhill stuff is alot easier to me, so maybe it'll be something to give yourself more confidence on "some" stuff. But again i think you've just unbalanced your ride and are just gonna have to deal with the slight consequences.

 

[zzyxzz]

2004 Devinci Banzai - 4", 4.5" or 5.75" of rear travel, mated with a Manitou Minute 3:00 fork (soon to be replaced by the RS Pike) and a 90mm stem.
31 Lbs and rising

 

[Cash-Money]

i use a 130mm 15* rise stem on my '97 yeti DH/Super Monster trailbike, and it climbs like a goat. :nuts:

... i ran a 70mm X 10* thompson on my trail hardtail with a DJ1, and it was awesome.

 

[MMcG]

you should have never took off your talas if you didn't need to. The Z1 is too big of a fork for that bike. You're always going to have problems now doing technical climbing regardless of what you do to your stem and/or spacers. Gonna descend and come off stuff easier, so i suppose it's all in what you want to feel more comfortable doing. Personally i need all the help going uphill and downhill stuff is alot easier to me, so maybe it'll be something to give yourself more confidence on "some" stuff. But again i think you've just unbalanced your ride and are just gonna have to deal with the slight consequences.

You may be right skooks - time will tell I guess. Need more ride time on it to be sure. If only the TAlas were taller axle to crown I would have never even contemplated the switch. The Belair came with a Psylo stock and the Psylo is taller axle to crown than the Talas. The Talas was noticeably stiffer, but it was also shorter Axle to crown and it steepened the head tube angle a bit. I have come to prefer a slacker HT angle.

Our terrain is different from yours, with shorter climbs, and who knows I may replace the Belair frame down the road for something with a little more travel in the rear.

I can always change again if need be.

It's good to try different things from time to time right?

 

[Rip]

Personally I think you made a good choice Mark.

*Rides a Z1 as well.*

 

[MMcG]

time and more rides on it will tell. The Belair is designed to accommodate a 5" travel fork so it's not way unbalanced. I like the stiffness of the Z1 and it doesn't dive when cornering as much as the Talas did.

Again, I think it was worth it to experiment.

 

[binary visions]

A little adjustment and you can clean anything on the Z.1 that you could do on the Talas. Not to mention the Z.1 has ECC for climbing.

This thread is becoming worthless without pics, though...

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

IH Hollowpoint with a Vanilla 125 rl and a 70mm stem.
Tried both longer (100-110) and shorter(45), but I like the 70mm best.

I have the EXACT same fork and stem setup and i use it for all trail and XC rides, i just got used to it and it feel nimble as hell now. yeah when i jump on a bike with a long stem for a climb it feel good, but i would rather have a bike that steers well and can maneuver over just a good climber any day...

 

[McGRP01]

Kona Dawg w/ a '04 DJ III @ 110mm travel and a 65mm Kore B52 stem.

 

[Snacks]

Bike: Tuner 5 Spot

Stem: 90mm Easton

Fork: Fox Talus RL 125

Love it

 

[Echo]

I'm running 100mm travel and 100mm stems on both the Blur and the singlespeed.

 

[stosh]

I'm running 100mm travel and 100mm stems on both the Blur and the singlespeed.

Why did you choose thoes lengths?

 

[Skookum]

It's good to try different things from time to time right?

Can't argue with that. It all depends in what you want, and again i reiterate and emphasize that it's a "slight" consequence. Some frames are just funny, tweek the geometry front or back just a little and changes the whole ride, as you've discovered. Seems alot of people where trying to suggest tweeking, while i just wanted to state the happiness of a balanced bike.

 

[MMcG]

Can't argue with that. It all depends in what you want, and again i reiterate and emphasize that it's a "slight" consequence. Some frames are just funny, tweek the geometry front or back just a little and changes the whole ride, as you've discovered. Seems alot of people where trying to suggest tweeking, while i just wanted to state the happiness of a balanced bike.

To be honest the bike felt the most balanced with the Psylo on it - but that fork didn't please me one bit.

I think I'm going to be happy with the Z1 as I get more ride time on it. The ETA feature on the fork rocks and I actually use that more than I ever used the wind down travel feature on the Talas.

I should take some pics of the bike tonight - as Binary sort of hinted at.

 

[binary visions]

I should take some pics of the bike tonight - as Binary sort of hinted at.

 

[MMcG]

I'll take some pics of how the bike is set up currently tonight.

I'd also like input on the brand of stem I'm running - it came with the DH2 fork I got for the Cheeta and I don't know who makes it. Has AC on the logo if that helps.

 

[binary visions]

I'll take some pics of how the bike is set up currently tonight.

I'd also like input on the brand of stem I'm running - it came with the DH2 fork I got for the Cheeta and I don't know who makes it. Has AC on the logo if that helps.

It's an AC. That's the brand name. They make a chainguide too.. Not sure what else.

Pretty inexpensive/generic brand. It's fine. If it's a 2-bolt faceplate, it'll be flexier than a 4-bolt, but honestly, it's a stem. Pretty simple part - there are nice ones and there are crappy ones but as long as you don't break it, it's probably fine.

If you get the hankering to buy a new one sometime, look for something with a 4-bolt faceplate. I like my Thomson stem, if you're patient when installing it. No bolts to hit your knees on, stiff and strong, and not that heavy. Plus, let's face it, Thomson equipment is beautiful.