[ALEXIS_DH]

Living in California we're already taxed more than at least 95% of the nation. My healthcare costs went from approx $300 a month to around $900 under Obamacare. Our deductible has also skyrocketed. My wife & I choose to pay for 4 years of college for each kid (we have 2). If they can't finish in 4, the 5th year is on them. However, once done paying for them, I don't want to cover anyone else college tuition. We shouldn't be forced to pay for other kids education, especially like a liberal arts degree which is useless if you want to earn any real money and not rely on others to support them. Now, CA has the 6-7th wealthiest economy in the world, yet we have the highest gas prices in the nation, We pay over 0.47 a gallon in gas tax for what is supposed to go towards our infrastructure. I don't know if you've ever driven our roads here, but they SUCK! Nothings been done, however they just keep raising our taxes here. Last year alone I paid over $20K in property taxes, the nations average in $4-5K a year. We pay up to 12% in state income tax and yet the state is broke. Now, you want to give out free stuff, have the rest of the country pay the same percentage that we pay here in CA, then I'm good. I just want everyone to contribute the same percentage we shell out. Whats fair is fair!

Lets say, for the sake of the argument, the spirit of your words/intentions are correct.

What *if* you, for the very same (or near) amount of money you are already paying, you could get:
a) Decent healthcare coverage for your family (and others, as a side effect), with better overall indicators.
b) Paid-for tuition for the kids.

Free stuff doesnt exist.
You either pay as taxes, or later pay out of pocket.

Thing is, paying out of pocket (or borrowing money) distorts the market for goods/services with perfect inelastic demand, and ends up in bubbles or skyrocketing prices.

Health? Perfect inelastic demand plus perfect pricing = The astonishing rates you get for medical services in the US. Education, same thing. Tuition prices will keep growing faster than inflation as long as credit is available.

At this point, am pretty sure you are not getting your money´s worth. At least not when compared to other advanced economies. If you add up your actual expenditures for school, health, taxes.. and compare them to other advanced economies taxes, you are not "saving" as much as you´d think.
Forget about it, if you get cancer, need a transplant or any 6-7 digit illness. You´d need a few lifetimes to recoup your "savings" vs the european model.

Certain socialized services also work as anchors for prices.
Cant charge $200k for a college education in Switzerland when you can go to ETH for virtually nothing. Cant charge 1 million for a heart transplant in Europe, when you can get it for 1/100 that at a public hospital next door.

 

[Nick]

TIL we have a South American with a better understanding of this mess than many US citizens.

 

[Pesqueeb]

No Fox news.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Lets throw some numbers. Upper middle class (top quintile) american family with 2 children.

Average income (top 20%). $230k/year, min $130k.
Cost of college tuition, 2 kids at mid-priced school. $200k, split evenly over 35 years of working/taxes. $5.6/year.
Average health insurance/expenditures family of 4 (Milliman Medical Index). $28k/year

Just that, right there, is about the same as a 15% tax rate (at average overall for quintile), or 26% at 1st quintile cutoff.

Add up to the income tax (12%?) you already pay, your sales tax, your property taxes and the interest paid on school loans (if not paying cash)... and at 2nd quintile and lower, you are paying thru the nose compared to the europeans.

Stack up more kids, any serious accident/illness on top... and you are properly and thoroughly fucked.

 

[Toshi]

But paying for those things on the private market is the American, Freedum way.

:don'ttredonsnek.gif:

 

[jstuhlman]

avg top 20% income is nowhere near $230k/year. only approximately the top 4% of households make more than $200k per year. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Aggregate_income_distribution

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Lets say, for the sake of the argument, the spirit of your words/intentions are correct.

What *if* you, for the very same (or near) amount of money you are already paying, you could get:
a) Decent healthcare coverage for your family (and others, as a side effect), with better overall indicators.
b) Paid-for tuition for the kids.

Free stuff doesnt exist.
You either pay as taxes, or later pay out of pocket.

Thing is, paying out of pocket (or borrowing money) distorts the market for goods/services with perfect inelastic demand, and ends up in bubbles or skyrocketing prices.

Health? Perfect inelastic demand plus perfect pricing = The astonishing rates you get for medical services in the US. Education, same thing. Tuition prices will keep growing faster than inflation as long as credit is available.

At this point, am pretty sure you are not getting your money´s worth. At least not when compared to other advanced economies. If you add up your actual expenditures for school, health, taxes.. and compare them to other advanced economies taxes, you are not "saving" as much as you´d think.
Forget about it, if you get cancer, need a transplant or any 6-7 digit illness. You´d need a few lifetimes to recoup your "savings" vs the european model.

Certain socialized services also work as anchors for prices.
Cant charge $200k for a college education in Switzerland when you can go to ETH for virtually nothing. Cant charge 1 million for a heart transplant in Europe, when you can get it for 1/100 that at a public hospital next door.

I by no means am against a better/more affordable healthcare system and for more affordable colleges. I'd love to see a better system out there, that every tax payer can benefit from. The point I was trying to make is here in the California Bay Area, we are completely ass raped by outrageous taxes and the cost of living. So the thought of having to pay even more on what we're already paying fucking hurts! There are states out there with no sales tax, no to very low income tax. All I'm saying is have every state pay the same percentage, or just a flat tax as the highest taxed state/area.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Jesus Christ

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I by no means am against a better/more affordable healthcare system and for more affordable colleges. I'd love to see a better system out there, that every tax payer can benefit from. The point I was trying to make is here in the California Bay Area, we are completely ass raped by outrageous taxes and the cost of living. So the thought of having to pay even more on what we're already paying fucking hurts! There are states out there with no sales tax, no to very low income tax. All I'm saying is have every state pay the same percentage, or just a flat tax as the highest taxed state/area.

Socialist taxation then?

 

[Pesqueeb]

Socialist taxation then?

I get the impression brian may not be aware that federal and state taxes are separate things.

States with the Highest & Lowest Tax Rates

States with the Highest & Lowest Tax Rates

wallethub.com

 

[Jm_]

I by no means am against a better/more affordable healthcare system and for more affordable colleges. I'd love to see a better system out there, that every tax payer can benefit from. The point I was trying to make is here in the California Bay Area, we are completely ass raped by outrageous taxes and the cost of living. So the thought of having to pay even more on what we're already paying fucking hurts! There are states out there with no sales tax, no to very low income tax. All I'm saying is have every state pay the same percentage, or just a flat tax as the highest taxed state/area.

I don’t think you really understand how it works in those states with no income tax. They make it up on other ways, like sales tax or crazy inflated registration on new cars that is based on a % of purchase price. Our state is currently in a denial of how much money it takes to run a rural state and it is trying to figure out how to deal with ever increasing shortfalls, which seem to fall on schools, roads, services, etc. This has been building up for years, but in other states like TX, AZ, they find other ways to get to you...you just don’t “count it” because it’s not property tax or income tax. For us, our trade for not having sales or income tax is hugely expensive cost of living. And guess what, the other states subsidize the hell out of much of our state, in EAS traffic, postal service, etc. And that adds all sorts of stuff that needs to be maintained and industries dedicated to support of this.

These places aren’t the tax havens you think they are where you get to keep Scrooge-McDuck piles of cash. This is classic “grass is always greener” attitude IMO. My parents, hardcore republican, finally saw the light and moved out of Texas just recently. Why did they move there? They thought they were going to make out like bandits saving money on Taxes..Then they couldn’t sell their brand new RV and took a massive financial hit, having to downsize homes, but ultimately left due to the oppressive climate and frustration that came from infrastructure well below the pace of growth. This was causing it to take an hour in SA to drive 4 miles to the supermarket and the entire city is locked in crazy traffic. Double digit sales tax in places. Sure, maybe things are a bit better somewhere, but when it comes to taxes, you gotta look at the entire story, not just certain taxes, availability of jobs, all taxes and fees, cost of living, etc.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I get the impression brian may not be aware that federal and state taxes are separate things.

States with the Highest & Lowest Tax Rates

States with the Highest & Lowest Tax Rates

wallethub.com

Believe me, I'm well aware

 

[eric strt6]

Come on now lets lighten up on Brian. he can't help it if he bought a big house in Danville CA, only one of the most expensive fucking places to live on the planet.........

 

[jonKranked]

here in the California Bay Area, we are completely ass raped by outrageous taxes and the cost of living.

so, who's forcing you to stay?

There are states out there with no sales tax, no to very low income tax.

and many of them you'd easily confuse them for 2nd, even 3rd world countries.

All I'm saying is have every state pay the same percentage, or just a flat tax as the highest taxed state/area.

you mean like how federal tax brackets are *already setup*? and as far as the variation in state taxes across the nation, well that's just states rights.

 

[jonKranked]

For us, our trade for not having sales or income tax is hugely expensive cost of living.

don't you have to import a lot of commodities? that's a big influence on COL.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

so, who's forcing you to stay?

Hopefully 5.5 year plan, just waiting to get our daughter though HS/college and then my wife will retire from her company after 35/36 years.. We then will probably move. Plus I'm established here with my work & business is thriving. Once we move I'll switch careers.

 

[Pesqueeb]

and as far as the variation in state taxes across the nation, well that's just states rights.

States Rights is only for justifying slavery civil war, duh.

Of course, someone as aware as brian would surely understand that his effective tax rate is actually fairly low, one assumes.

 

[jonKranked]

Hopefully 5.5 year plan, just waiting to get our daughter though HS/college and then my wife will retire from her company after 35/36 years.. We then will probably move. Plus I'm established here with my work & business is thriving. Once we move I'll switch careers.

so you're staying by choice yes?

 

[jonKranked]

my work & business is thriving

if you make less money, you'll pay less taxes. that's always an option.

 

[Pesqueeb]

You'll love Somalia, Brian. Very low tax rate, maximum freedom, burgeoning construction industry. Please leave soon and never come back.

 

[VTApe]

Former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich Released Following Trump's Commutation

On Tuesday night, Blagojevich walked free from a federal prison four years before he was scheduled to be released. He is among 11 people who received clemency, the White House says.

www.npr.org

This one puzzles me. How are his remaining supporters not up in arms about their orange julius commuting the sentence of a Democratic swamp creature?

 

[jonKranked]

This one puzzles me. How are his remaining supporters not up in arms abotu their orange julius commuting the sentence of a Democratic swamp creature?

they don't blaspheme their god, they just wag fingers and talk about how disappointed they are.

 

[Pesqueeb]

they don't blaspheme their god, they just wag fingers and talk about how disappointed they are.

Lindsay Graham, is that you?

 

[jonKranked]

Lindsay Graham, is that you?

GOP mad libs

 

[stoney]

I by no means am against a better/more affordable healthcare system and for more affordable colleges. I'd love to see a better system out there, that every tax payer can benefit from.

And they are being proposed. You just have to understand the premise of moving expenses from left-hand to right-hand. Stop paying private expenses, paying taxes instead. Still paying the same amount if you are part of the majority of the US - additional taxes are corporate and ultra-high net worth.

The point I was trying to make is here in the California Bay Area, we are completely ass raped by outrageous taxes and the cost of living. So the thought of having to pay even more on what we're already paying fucking hurts! There are states out there with no sales tax, no to very low income tax. All I'm saying is have every state pay the same percentage, or just a flat tax as the highest taxed state/area.

Moving to CO our household income dropped by over $100k. Our lifestyle went up substantially. That being said, there are shortcomings of our lifestyle here that can only be fixed through state taxes.

Our roads are shit and most are at least 15 years behind with their width. The only way to get those funds is through ballot approved taxes. How does that impact me? It takes me at least 50% longer to get places than somewhere with functioning roads would. There is a solution though! I can spend on toll lanes on those same highways, so additional cost to go to the same place. Given my and Wifey's hourly rates, we almost always pay for them. I probably spend $100+ per month just driving around town.

What about school? In CA pre-K and K are paid for, as they are in most liberal states. It was a huge fight to get whole day K paid for here. I spend $350/w for daycare. The girls that work at that private school as teachers are paid $9/hr and we cannot keep staff there for more than a few months. The couple that owns the school both just bought AMG's though... I'd much rather that expense be paid as a tax that allows for higher pay to get better teachers with higher requirements to staff.

Gas taxes? We don't have them, but we don't have that money going into infrastructure...

Hopefully 5.5 year plan, just waiting to get our daughter though HS/college and then my wife will retire from her company after 35/36 years.. We then will probably move. Plus I'm established here with my work & business is thriving. Once we move I'll switch careers.

Then leave. You made the choice to build your business there. If you want the best for your kids, why don't you move somewhere better? If CA is so bad, you should set them up better in life with a better education. There are 13 red states with higher k-12 rankings than CA. (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education/prek-12)
If CA is so bad and you are paying for out of state schools, go somewhere that your kids can get a better education as in-state. Save yourself the money.

With this booming economy, you should be able to easily build a construction business anywhere, no?

And does you wife's company not have a national presence? Is she staying to take advantage of a pension? If so, that's socialist and they were mostly put in place because of union labor forcing the contracts...

Your choice to have your kids focus on athletics instead of academics is your own damn fault. I've mentioned it before, but CA will admit any every student into a public college if they meet the qualifications and requirements of the school. CSU here is the equivalent of the CSU states in CA - the second tier school. Just because he didn't want to go to school in Modesto or Pomona doesn't mean he couldn't get into college in CA where you wouldn't be paying out of state rates. Those are all personal poor decisions; don't push those onto other people.

 

[Jm_]

US children need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/18/health/children-health-rankings-unicef-who-lancet-report/index.html

 

[Nick]

Make America a 1st World Country Again!

 

[jonKranked]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1230514983915663360

 

[SkaredShtles]

Make America a 1st World Country Again!

Good luck with that.

 

[jonKranked]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-20/white-house-admits-that-trump-trade-stance-did-depress-economy

 

[SkaredShtles]

Reminds me of this clip from The Newsroom.

 

[dan-o]

Make Orwell Fiction Again

 

[Toshi]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-speech-mulvaney-admits-republicans-are-hypocritical-on-deficits/2020/02/19/28546c84-5385-11ea-9e47-59804be1dcfb_story.html

“My party is very interested in deficits when there is a Democrat in the White House. The worst thing in the whole world is deficits when Barack Obama was the president. Then Donald Trump became president, and we’re a lot less interested as a party,” Mulvaney said at the Oxford Union to a group of several hundred people.

 

[SkaredShtles]

The GOP seems to be more like the Hypocrisy Party...

 

[Pesqueeb]

Another covfefe boy bites the dust.

Roger Stone Sentenced To More Than 3 Years Amid Furor Over Trump And DOJ

President Trump's political adviser was found guilty on all counts by a federal jury last year after he was charged with lying to Congress and obstructing its investigation.

www.npr.org

Pardons in 3....2....

 

[Pesqueeb]

The GOP seems to be more like the Hypocrisy Party...

Nonsense.

They are the ones always telling you how bad government is, and they prove it every time they get the opportunity. They are remarkably consistent in that regard.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Hey look! More actions of totally innocent people.

Rohrabacher confirms he offered Trump pardon to Assange for proof Russia didn't hack DNC email

Former congressman Dana Rohrabacher confirmed to Yahoo News he told Julian Assange President Trump would pardon him if he turned over information proving Russians weren't the source of Democratic emails published by WikiLeaks.

news.yahoo.com

"“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy said, according to Entous, a superb reporter who heard a tape recording of the colloquy. “Swear to God.”

In the Post piece, McCarthy’s remark is met with laughter, and Ryan cautions his colleagues, “This is an off the record . . . No leaks! . . . All right?”

And then, amid more laughter, Ryan says, “This is how we know we’re a real family here.” "

 

[jonKranked]

Hey look! More actions of totally innocent people.

Rohrabacher confirms he offered Trump pardon to Assange for proof Russia didn't hack DNC email

Former congressman Dana Rohrabacher confirmed to Yahoo News he told Julian Assange President Trump would pardon him if he turned over information proving Russians weren't the source of Democratic emails published by WikiLeaks.

news.yahoo.com

"“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy said, according to Entous, a superb reporter who heard a tape recording of the colloquy. “Swear to God.”

In the Post piece, McCarthy’s remark is met with laughter, and Ryan cautions his colleagues, “This is an off the record . . . No leaks! . . . All right?”

And then, amid more laughter, Ryan says, “This is how we know we’re a real family here.” "

"White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham immediately denounced the claim about a pardon discussion with Assange as a “complete fabrication,” adding that the president “barely knows Dana Rohrabacher” and has “never spoken to him on this subject or almost any subject.” "

......waits for pictures of them together to surface..........

 

[VTApe]

I by no means am against a better/more affordable healthcare system and for more affordable colleges. I'd love to see a better system out there, that every tax payer can benefit from. The point I was trying to make is here in the California Bay Area, we are completely ass raped by outrageous taxes and the cost of living. So the thought of having to pay even more on what we're already paying fucking hurts! There are states out there with no sales tax, no to very low income tax. All I'm saying is have every state pay the same percentage, or just a flat tax as the highest taxed state/area.

You live in one of the highest COL areas of the country. Serious question, are you able to move?

Here in New England our COL is high, but I'm friendly with a partner at PWC who can't afford SF, after leaving a 5,000 square foot home here. Root cause for runaway COL is massive tech growth paired and limited housing... not sure how that aligns with the right wing talking point of failed Democratic leadership, but that's another thread altogether. I'd imagine if big tech were actually forced to pay fair taxes rather than hoard cash, you'd likely have to pay less and be able to realistically remain in your area.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

You live in one of the highest COL areas of the country. Serious question, are you able to move?

Here in New England our COL is high, but I'm friendly with a partner at PWC who can't afford SF, after leaving a 5,000 square foot home here. Root cause for runaway COL is massive tech growth paired and limited housing... not sure how that aligns with the right wing talking point of failed Democratic leadership, but that's another thread altogether.

We need at a minimum to get our daughter through HS. My wife & I still look for deals around our area. We bought right before the last crash in 2005. My wife can retire with full bennys in 2 years, but since we're paying for college it will be 6. Unless she's still digging her job, which she loves, may stay even longer. With the boom of the tech industry, housing prices has gone through the roof. We couldn't afford to buy our home today. Has nothing to do with dem/rep/ leadership, its all about supply & demand and being surrounded by the billion dollar tech world. That and being 45 min to SF, 45 min to Napa, 1.5 hours away from Santa Cruz beach. Where else in the world can you go surfing in the morning, drive 3 hours and be snow skiing in the afternoon. Can't beat the weather here which also gets tossed into the equation of why it costs so much to live here. Hard to beat wearing shorts & flip flops year around.