Turner 29er; The Sultan
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
- Start date
Yeah but nobody's gonna buy it cause Dave doesn't worship at the altar of the all mighty big wheel...
Looks good. Looks like a Turner and probably rides like one too.
Looks good. Looks like a Turner and probably rides like one too.
I for one, an not a fan of that rear shock placement... it reminds me too much of my wife's Trek Fuel which rode like total crap.
Specs:
71 HT
73 ST
13.2 BB
18.2 CS
71 HT
73 ST
13.2 BB
18.2 CS
Does your hardtail ride like crap because it looks the same as a crappy-riding hardtail?
Are Ti and steel frames identical? they both use small diameter tubes, right?
Is a Honda Acorrd the same as a Ford Taurus because they look similar?
Is vodka the same thing as gin? they're both clear, after all.
How hard is it for people to understand that just because two full suspension bikes look similar, they're vastly different? Why can't some people understand this, even though they apply the same logic to other things?
I'm with moff on this- the bike looks exactly as I expected it to. Simple, understated, and just plain works. One of my favorite things about my Turner is that it doesn't draw attention. I think my 6pack needs a buddy!
Does your hardtail ride like crap because it looks the same as a crappy-riding hardtail?
Are Ti and steel frames identical? they both use small diameter tubes, right?
Is a Honda Acorrd the same as a Ford Taurus because they look similar?
Is vodka the same thing as gin? they're both clear, after all.
How hard is it for people to understand that just because two full suspension bikes look similar, they're vastly different? Why can't some people understand this, even though they apply the same logic to other things?
I'm with moff on this- the bike looks exactly as I expected it to. Simple, understated, and just plain works. One of my favorite things about my Turner is that it doesn't draw attention. I think my 6pack needs a buddy!
Easy there Homer....
I didn't say it rode like crap nor anything else.. I only said it reminded me of the Fuel which did ride like crap. But still,i find it very very hard to beat the 4 bar linkage...
Is that bb height before sag do you think?
Looks good to my eyes. Still too bad no more horst links on Turners - it just seemed like they went hand in hand you know. Bet it rides very nice and will be very well built.
Looks good to my eyes. Still too bad no more horst links on Turners - it just seemed like they went hand in hand you know. Bet it rides very nice and will be very well built.
...well, here we go again! I hate to get another debate started, but for the love of all that is HOLY!! The Turner TNT IS a 4 bar, just like the Horst link version was! I'm not sure why so many people confuse this issue...perhaps all the FSR marketing. Yes, the Horst link does offer some nice benefits when the application is done correctly, however recent incarnations of the HL really do not vary a gnat's gnard from DT's current design with regard to axle path. Braking characteristics can be argued on longer travel bikes....but again, it's all relative. I actually prefer a bit of the more stabilizing squat as opposed to a more neutral, forward-lurching HL feel. I have spent years on the Turner HL design & was one of the early prototype testers for the newer TNT (seatstay pivot) design & I concur with what MOST have realized about the change....the TNT is flat preferred over the HL Turner. After spending alot of time on the new design, I sold my HL bikes & bought the new design. If you haven't done back to back tests on the same bike (swapping stays only) you really have no idea what you're implying (or at least cannot substantiate it).
Anyhoo....not to bog down this thread with banter, but sometimes I need to vent on this issue as it gets thrown around so often on bike boards by people who have no real world experience & as such, mostly comparing one brands design over & against that of another with completely different builds...etc.
I agree, this looks like a very sweet ride from Turner & confirmed today that one of the 19" protos from demo day will eventually make it to my basement
Well there ya go then.
Basement? You mean the trails right? 
Surely it isn't just gonna reside in the basement and collect dust right?
Surely it isn't just gonna reside in the basement and collect dust right?
...hah! No, the basement is where they recover from the ride. I am sure this new Turner will see the lion share of my ride time for a bit.:biggrin:Basement? You mean the trails right?
Surely it isn't just gonna reside in the basement and collect dust right?
Apparently you can't comprehend sarcasm. When I said the bike had "big support from the company itself," I was refering to DT talking smack about how 29ers are pointless. Then he turns around and makes one.
Apparently you're insecure with your age. But personally I think it's way lamer for you to be sitting on the internet seeing you're probably middle aged. Grow up and pick on someone your own size.
I can comprehend sarcasm just fine, thanks. It is more your derisive comments & name-calling that I find childish. Dave Turner at one point felt the Horst link was the best way to design a suspension bicycle as well...does it make him a "bald barber" for changing designs ? He makes a World Cup level DH bike & doesn't race DH...a top level FR bike & doesn't come close to riding the stuff the bike is designed for. I am confused, the man finally gives his customers what they ask for & suddenly he's villainized by the zealot band-wagon...silly if you ask me.
FYI: I am working right now, that would be why I am on the "internet", tho I be a middle-aged man.
EDIT: Deleted posts to clean up the thread
...actually, that is not the Sultan. It is a 5 Spot triangle & rockers w/ a 6 Pack rear
I think it's a bit different for DT to change suspension designs, than to talk a bunch of crap about something and then build it.
That'd be like if he said, oh, TNT won't ever work well and DH bikes suck too and then turned around and made TNT bikes and DH bikes. Apples and oranges buddy.
But whatever.
...here's where you are "making stuff up". DT never said 29ers "won't ever work well" nor did he say "they suck". He simply pointed out the inherent weaknesses in the design/ ride of the wheels & stated his opinion* (*just like you have several times in this thread) that they will never "take over" in MTB. I have read his quotes in all the mag articles, so I know what I am referencing...do you? I have also had many long conversations regarding 29ers in general as well as this current project. Dave is psyched about the Sultan...period. Hate all you want, but at least get your facts straight....don't just regurgitate what you read on the MTBR boards.
JN - thanks for clarifying up what DT's comments were. Good on ya for keeping it civilized too. Thanks!
Interesting... what is it about this peticular 29er that gets everyone all stirred up when it's discussed?
I think it's AWESOME that we can repeat this same argument from MTBR over here. That way, we can just cut-and-paste our comments without having to put in the work of creating new arguments!
Bottom line- Turner won't sign his name to a bike that doesn't ride great. So even if he's not a personal fan of big wheels, it's still going to be a good bike.
Other bottom line- if you're the soulful type who wants to buy a bike from a maker who's as stoked on 29ers as you are (and you're not focused solely on the performance of the bike), then there are certainly better options out there.
Both opinions are valid. Choice is good. I'd much rather have the option of a Turner full suspension 29er than another hardtail with EBB from a third-tier consumer brand...
Bottom line- Turner won't sign his name to a bike that doesn't ride great. So even if he's not a personal fan of big wheels, it's still going to be a good bike.
Other bottom line- if you're the soulful type who wants to buy a bike from a maker who's as stoked on 29ers as you are (and you're not focused solely on the performance of the bike), then there are certainly better options out there.
Both opinions are valid. Choice is good. I'd much rather have the option of a Turner full suspension 29er than another hardtail with EBB from a third-tier consumer brand...
you really have no concept of basic bike design, do you?
'i hate that hardtail; it kinda looks like that other i had which i didn't like'
:yawn:
I know. That Kona 29er full suspension bike is almost identical to Turner's 29er... uh, wait...
I'll see your Lenz, and raise you a Ventana...
That many solid and reputable builders have chosen this suspension design says good things about it, no? Aren't we past the days when the value of a bike was determined by how novel its suspension design was? It's Darwinism at work. The strong designs survive...
I'd take any of those above - Turner, Lenz, Ventana
I'd also love to try a Niner RIP Nine - Balfa 2Step comes to mind when I see that frame!
Hell a Van Dessel Jersey Devil or a Astrix Monk would be sweet too.
I think what would really be great is if another company other than Fisher would produce a FS 29er for the masses. Say a Jamis XLT 29er or a Kona Dawg 29er or something along those lines.
oh yeah and they should offer a frame only option and try to get it in the sub $1,000 price range too!
I'd also love to try a Niner RIP Nine - Balfa 2Step comes to mind when I see that frame!
Hell a Van Dessel Jersey Devil or a Astrix Monk would be sweet too.
I think what would really be great is if another company other than Fisher would produce a FS 29er for the masses. Say a Jamis XLT 29er or a Kona Dawg 29er or something along those lines.
oh yeah and they should offer a frame only option and try to get it in the sub $1,000 price range too!
No, it's the lawyers at work.
How is that ? Because as I understand it without the horst link what you have is a single pivot bike with a linkage driving the shock.
For the record I have no particular affinity for any suspension design - just looking to find out what's behind all the marketing hooey and buzz words like "TNT" cos that Turner looks like IDENTICAL (uh, besides the wheel size, duh) to a lot of other bikes out there.
The Lenz offends my aesthetic sensibilities. I couldn't pay that kind of money for a frame with that ugly head tube/down tube junction. I know how fickle that is, and I won't apologize. It's my money. If I'm going to spend $1900 on a frame, I want it to look great AND ride great.
The Ventana has grown on me. I used to hate it, but I'm warming up to it now.
Niner. I'm wait-and-see on that one. Not buying any first-generation suspension bike from a relatively new brand, although it does look good. I hope it takes off, and the reports are good.
I want to like the Jersey Devil, but that huge and unattractive rocker gets in the way. They're local (NJ), and I'd love to support a local company, but... I just can't ride that bike.
Spider 29er is too racy- I'm 220 and ride hard, so I need a tougher bike.
Astrix Monk is pretty sweet- simple design, great price. I've been thinking about that one.
But the Turner is the best-looking 29er trailbike yet, and I know it'll deliver a swell ride. It's almost enough to convince me.
However, I think I'll hold out a little while longer for that rumored Intense 5.5 29er. I love my other Intense, and Jeff Steber is just crazy about 29ers now (his quotes in those same mags make an interesting counterpoint to DT's! ), so it can't be too long before we see big wheels with more travel from them...
The Ventana has grown on me. I used to hate it, but I'm warming up to it now.
Niner. I'm wait-and-see on that one. Not buying any first-generation suspension bike from a relatively new brand, although it does look good. I hope it takes off, and the reports are good.
I want to like the Jersey Devil, but that huge and unattractive rocker gets in the way. They're local (NJ), and I'd love to support a local company, but... I just can't ride that bike.
Spider 29er is too racy- I'm 220 and ride hard, so I need a tougher bike.
Astrix Monk is pretty sweet- simple design, great price. I've been thinking about that one.
But the Turner is the best-looking 29er trailbike yet, and I know it'll deliver a swell ride. It's almost enough to convince me.
However, I think I'll hold out a little while longer for that rumored Intense 5.5 29er. I love my other Intense, and Jeff Steber is just crazy about 29ers now (his quotes in those same mags make an interesting counterpoint to DT's!
), so it can't be too long before we see big wheels with more travel from them...
jbogner - FYI - Astrix is working on a couple of other longer travel FS 29er designs - so perhaps they could be the ticket for you.
do any number of searches on this, and if you want specify author as dw (dave weagle) or thaflyinfatman (aussie guy on here).
the chainstay pivot allows for de-coupling of braking forces on the suspension. at least that's how i've understood it.
especially on the cheap frame. That's definitely the next step. Whether you like Turner or not, 29ers or not, it's awesome to see new options popping out in the mountain bike world. It means new growth and evolution for the industry.
Almost all of these FS 29"ers have 18" or longer chainstays to accomodate the travel/ design. I see on other threads where critics of 29"ers say that the chainstays are too long.....on hardtail 29"ers! Does the chainstay length of these FS 29"ers bother any body? I see this Turner has 18" plus long chainstays. Is this a non-issue? What say you FS guys?