Turner DHR vs. Ironhorse Sunday
- Thread starter SBDownhillRacer
- Start date
I never said I expected them to send me a triangle without seeing mine first. What I did expect was a straight answer as to how long it would take, if it would be the same color I paid for originally or if it will be turned into a frankenstien bike.....
I did call ironhorse and over a month later recieved a bolt/pivot kits which contained the WRONG bearings and bolts save for the central pivot shaft - which was the same. But after consulting with several other riders and people I know I discovered that they all had the same problem and there was no real fix available. So I figured why bother sending the frame in, waiting two months, receiving the new frame, only to have the same problem happen again within 15 minutes of my first ride!
I really like the handling on the Sunday and the geometry. If it didn't feel so damn good in the corners I would have parted ways with it allready.
As far as harware, I fabricated some washers that resolved the lateral slop in the aforementioned pivot - but even still, doesn't seem a bit odd that you should have to pay over a couple thousand dollars for a frame that you later have to begin fabricating parts for to make it work right?!?
I never said I didn't know anybody with a Sunday pivot issue, I said I didn't know anybody who had an issue with THAT pivot. The Sunday issues that I'm familiar with were all with the upper shock mount, not where the upper linkage attaches to the frame. And most of the issues were with '05's. My '06 just needed larger bolts for the upper shock mount - absolutely no slop since then.
My guess is you're exaggerating the number of Sunday owners with the same issue as yourself to make a point...
I'm with you, and I do agree. I am not sure why there have been SO many 'play' issues with sundays over the years (seems as if consumers and I.H. are on different pages with this stuff). I was just relaying some info that could have prevented any damage to begin with, and could most likely 'fix' any issues you are currently having.
I would love to see the entire bicycle industry treat people like Dave Turner does, but that is never going to happen. I have come to accept this, and I truely think there are things that can be done (not that as a consumer, you should be doing them, but....) to nearly eliminate future frame issues...
I go through EVERY frame top to bottom, and grease, loctite and torque everything before it is ever built.
75 feet is totally kuhrazzzeeeeee!!!!!!
Yeah, as consumers we should be picking the companies that make it and the ones that don't make it by making smart purchases. However, if a company hides or lies about certain problems, it makes it real difficult to make the correct decision - which is partly why I jumped on this thread to begin with, to help educate people and unveil some of the not-so-true stories going around. I'm also very irritated at the thought of a company whom I spent hard earned money with, treating me like I don't know what I'm talking about and suggesting that I'm lying about a problem which is very common. Not to mention I wasn't aware that ironhorse had a seperate warranty time for pivots and frames - that right there suggest insider knowledge of a pivot issue.
Furthermore, they are really pushing the proof of purchase none sense....Isn't having the bike effectively "proof of purchase"!?
Sorry for the rant!
Couldn't have said it better myself. Warranty is for the original owner only. This is the way it is for any company.
I don't see how your getting 2 months for us to inspect/warranty it, as fast as you get it into us is as fast as we look at it. If you sent it back the day it came in we would be working on a resolution for you. You never told me what size you were on so how was I suppose to check availability? I told you that if you wanted to gather your paper work, and start the warranty claim I would get the ball rolling right away for you.
If you had play from the beginning, why not contact us us right away? I see you are saying you ordered a warranty pivot and you are received the wrong bearings, why not just give us a quick call back? No one is perfect, and I apologize if you got the wrong bearings, but we would have absolutely made it right for you had you contacted us again.
I am not doubting the fact that your bike could have an ovalized pivot, its just very very unlikely. As I stated earlier and as Dave stated, we have never scene one. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but that is why we need it back to inspect it. If it was ovalized, we would replace the front triangle for you.
As stated earlier, if you would like to contact me with your frame size, I will check availability on a replacement triangle. If you send the frame in, we will inspect it and get you a replacement right away.
Have a nice day
-Mike L
Warranty/Tech Support/Customer service
MikeL@IronHorseBikes.com
I would hope that during a thourough inspection of your upper pivot ovalization you would have removed your upper links, in which case you probably removed the shock so it wasn't flopping around by the lower pivot? shoulda slipped the cables through the frame then. It sure would suck to have to replace your brake line for having it routed that way.Yeah, I contacted them and they sent me the new pivot shaft and a set of bearings (the bearings don't even fit the sunday so I didn't use them).
I didn't ride it with loose pivots. I'm very anal about checking pivots, rotor bolts, spokes, etc before each ride.
Its a 2006 US made frame.
It actually makes logical sense to me why the pivot ovalizes...any compression force, especially bottoming, gets focused in that central pivot area. When the shock is fully compressed the force is applying heavy amounts of pressure on the the pivot shaft.
Everyone I ride with or have encountered on the trail that has a Sunday has the same problem! Some thought it was play in the shock eyelet before I pointed out the play was coming from the central pivot shaft.
So that there is no confusion, here is an image with an arrow pointing to the problem pivot:
...and yes, I know the cables are routed wrong, but I didn't want to disassemble the bike to reroute them. ;-)
Once again, perhaps I'm spoiled by companies like Intense and Turner that warranty their product, regardless. And can you tell me why a product should suddenly not be warrantied if it changes ownership?!? Does the product somehow change?
Intense only covers the original owner and Turner has a transferrable warranty provided you have the original receipt.
I think it's pretty standard that most consumer goods are only warrantied to the original purchaser and that warranties are not transferable. If you buy a TV second hand Sony or Samsung or whoever won't honnor the warranty. I know there are some companies that will transfer warranty and other's that offer crash warranties if you purchase second hand, but they're the exception not the rule. And honestly if I've ever bought a frame second hand I don't expect a company to stand behind it. I think part of the reason for this is the manufacture will have some idea from the LBS if the original owner has maintained the frame. If for example you've never taken the frame in to have bushings replaced when some slop develops and then the frame becomes ovalized it's your fault and not a manufacture's defect. Not trying tobe arguementative just my 2 cents.
I don't see how your getting 2 months for us to inspect/warranty it,
It took over a month to get the bolt kit originally sent out to me from the time I called.
You never told me what size you were on so how was I suppose to check availability?
Not true. I told you it was a large frame, you replied, "19 inch?!", I said "yes, US made, red, large frame - '06". You said you should have one laying around but you weren't sure and that I'd get whatever color was available if you had one.
If you had play from the beginning, why not contact us us right away?
I've clearly stated the reason several times in this thread. To summarize, I did call...everyone I know had the same problem...no point in waiting on a warranty only to have the same issue after 15 minutes of riding again...
During my first call, I even told whom ever it was I spoke with that I didn't want to waste an otherwise good frame if the problem was just going to occur right away again.
I figured the problem would be fixed by next season anyways and that would be the best time to do it.
If you can check availability, that would be great.
Thanks!
Technically that is correct. Realistically, Intense and Turner take care of their riders. They will bend over backwards to make sure your equipment is working correctly, regardless of the technical details of a warranty.
First off, the slop began 15 minutes into the first ride. There are no "bushings", only bearings in the pivots. The pivot in question has bearings - its the shaft that travels thru the bearings and into the frame that has problems because the section of frame it passes thru is 'enlarged'. It can in no way be my fault that slop developed in that linkage after 15 minutes into my first ride....no bolts were loose, no pivots were loose, it wasn't contaminated with dirt or mud yet, it hadn't been abused....
BTW, I am the original owner, so the all the second-hand lecture is a moot point. But thanks for your input.
Can't comment on Intense but I've only got good things to say about Turner's customer service. Actually same goes for SRAM up in Whistler last weekend my one of the master cylenders blew on my Code's, replaced the whole assembly at the trailer in under 2 hours, no charge, no questions asked. But honestly I feel that their service goes above and beyond what I excpect from any manufacture.
Arhhh come on now you just want to be right no matter what anybody writes. Just sell your bike and buy an Intense or a Turner.
Funny that everyone you know has the same problem and told no one, or IH just ignored you all.
so, are you sending the frame back or are you going to continue to b*tch?
you don't want to wait, but you want the problem resolved? figure out what you are going to do, call IH, and get it taken care. No one is going to help you here
you don't want to wait, but you want the problem resolved? figure out what you are going to do, call IH, and get it taken care. No one is going to help you here
And for gawd's sake, take your correspondence with the company somewhere other than a public forum.so, are you sending the frame back or are you going to continue to b*tch?
you don't want to wait, but you want the problem resolved? figure out what you are going to do, call IH, and get it taken care. No one is going to help you here
BOTH of you:huh:
TO TIDAN
tidan, honestly it seems like your trying to get a whole new set up...and sounds like you rode with loose pivots but really i know the scenario
your the guy who blames everything on his bike, when your friends land sick jumps on their Sundays, you cant because its your bike...sorry but its you. 10% bike 90% rider....but seriously why wouldnt you put up pictures..oh wait you did b/c there was incorrect cable routing... you know tidan...you can derilict my balls....i have 3 Sundays from each year, yea there was tolerance issue but not a big deal but i forgot Ironhorse forgot to release the update and dont be tool and ride the bike with loose pivots..
tidan, honestly it seems like your trying to get a whole new set up...and sounds like you rode with loose pivots but really i know the scenario
your the guy who blames everything on his bike, when your friends land sick jumps on their Sundays, you cant because its your bike...sorry but its you. 10% bike 90% rider....but seriously why wouldnt you put up pictures..oh wait you did b/c there was incorrect cable routing... you know tidan...you can derilict my balls....i have 3 Sundays from each year, yea there was tolerance issue but not a big deal but i forgot Ironhorse forgot to release the update and dont be tool and ride the bike with loose pivots..
TO TIDAN
tidan, honestly it seems like your trying to get a whole new set up...and sounds like you rode with loose pivots but really i know the scenario
your the guy who blames everything on his bike, when your friends land sick jumps on their Sundays, you cant because its your bike...sorry but its you. 10% bike 90% rider....but seriously why wouldnt you put up pictures..oh wait you did b/c there was incorrect cable routing... you know tidan...you can derilict my balls....i have 3 Sundays from each year, yea there was tolerance issue but not a big deal but i forgot Ironhorse forgot to release the update and dont be tool and ride the bike with loose pivots..
tidan, honestly it seems like your trying to get a whole new set up...and sounds like you rode with loose pivots but really i know the scenario
your the guy who blames everything on his bike, when your friends land sick jumps on their Sundays, you cant because its your bike...sorry but its you. 10% bike 90% rider....but seriously why wouldnt you put up pictures..oh wait you did b/c there was incorrect cable routing... you know tidan...you can derilict my balls....i have 3 Sundays from each year, yea there was tolerance issue but not a big deal but i forgot Ironhorse forgot to release the update and dont be tool and ride the bike with loose pivots..
your 45 foot gap is siiiiick! Looks like it must be at least 55 and you're just being modest! You really gotta get a pic of your 75 footer!! I've done big jumps, but your 75 must be about my 90!!
Sorry about your bike, man. You shoulda bought a Kona. Their Warranty and Customer Service departments are wayyyy better than IH.
Sorry about your bike, man. You shoulda bought a Kona. Their Warranty and Customer Service departments are wayyyy better than IH.
Thanks WBC. I wish I had a picture of the 75 footer. I didn't think it was quite that big until we brought out a 100ft. contractor tape measure...standard tape measures only run around 25ft and we couldn't get an accurate measurement.
I'm over the monster jumps though now....I guess getting older I've loss my edge (or desire) to do that stuff. Have lots of pics of other fun, but smaller, jumps! ;-)
I'm headed out on a bike trip here shortly so I'll have to mull it over.
I fabricated some washers that have effectively eliminated the lateral play in the upper link - which was my biggest concern. The up-down play I can live with for now.
Thank you for checking Mike.
I disagree with wbc, but I know where he's coming from. That huck of Tidan's is like 60 feet if it's 10.
Tidan you are my hero. Iron Horse should thank Tidan for riding their bike, and doing 55 foot hucks.
Tidan you are my hero. Iron Horse should thank Tidan for riding their bike, and doing 55 foot hucks.