[Zark]

My buddy trashed his Truvativ's in Whistler during the summer, but wants to rehab his bike to do some riding soon. I have some cranks lying around so...

Frame 2005 V10 which is a 73mm BB shell and a 150mm rear end.
cranks 68/73mm shell Saint Cranks.
guide 2004 E13 SRS, iscg old to frame

I have a feeling they won't work oit since his V10 needs 130mm spindle to get the chainline in order. I don't think the Saint's effective spindle length is long enough to work (118mm?)

Anyone have any input on this?
Thanks

 

[IH8Rice]

i used a 130mm ISIS bb and it was the only size i could get to work on the original V10 (2002 i think it was)

118 is way too short, unless for some reason the Saints/Xtype are different for some reason

 

[ChrisKring]

I have put 118mm bottom bracket cranks onto a V10 before. However, you do not want to do it. It requires extensive machining on the chain guide and to the end of the crank (on the inside edge to clear the swingarm.) It is way too much work to make it work. I did it for a 105 pound girl in an effort to reduce the weight. Never again.

Can't you get a longer spindle? (Sorry, I am not a Saint expert as I use Truvativ cranks.)

 

[Zark]

Can't you get a longer spindle? (Sorry, I am not a Saint expert as I use Truvativ cranks.)

No, the spindle is pressed into the drive side crank arm on Shimano Saints. To get a longer spindle, you get a new crank set

I'm NOT hacking up a guide just to make it work, so that pretty much confirms it. Thanks for your help everyone.

Hold on:

How about MRP bones Cro-mo cranks? I have a set of those lying around too.
Not exactly the lightest option, but Joe has been known to be quite a freehuck'n bike killer:biggrin: I don't know the spindle length offhand though..

Anyone got a set of Holzfellers (non-howitzer) that they want to get rid of?

 

[IH8Rice]

as long as you have the right spindle length, it doesnt matter what crank you use

 

[davep]

Only way it might work is to run the ring on the outter mount of the crank. That would move the chainline outward 5mm getting it pretty close to the 55-57 mm chainline that the frame requires.

Now you certainly might have problems with a chainguide with this set-up. Not only can you not run a bash (need a taco type) but there might be interference with the granny mounts of the cranks. It will work on some cranks though, so it might be worth a try....

 

[davep]

as long as you have the right spindle length, it doesnt matter what crank you use

Wrong....as mentioned above, the spindle and arm are as one in external bb cranks. The crank model dictates the chainline unlike older square taper an ISIS (and the howitzer oddity) cranks where the chainline was dictated by the bb.

 

[IH8Rice]

Wrong....as mentioned above, the spindle and arm are as one in external bb cranks. The crank model dictates the chainline unlike older square taper an ISIS (and the howitzer oddity) cranks where the chainline was dictated by the bb.

gotcha. sorry, i might the crank type doesnt matter in non xtype bb's.

arent all the external bb the same spindle length and spacers are used to adjust chainline?

 

[davep]

arent all the external bb the same spindle length and spacers are used to adjust chainline?

Within the same bb shell width catagory, yes to an extent. SO lets say a set of XT cranks (only avail for 68/73 mm bb) or 68/73mm saints have a nominal 50mm chainline when set up as suggested by shimano (it should also be noted that 50 is NOT the correct chainline for a frame with a 135mm rear end....47.5 is. The extra width came about with external bbs). If desired, you can move spacers from drive to non-drive side (or vice versa) to change the chainline by the spacer thickness (2.5 mm as supplied).

Now look at a set of 83mm bb cranks like Saints or G-lights (they have a longer spindle than the 73mm bb versions). The nominal chainline is around 57mm (new saints are pushed out to 59mm) again due to external bearing spacing (unfortunately the correct chainline for a 150mm rear frame is 55 mm). Just like the smaller (narrower) external cranks, these are recomende to use a spacer (or two) on each side of the bb shell, so again, you can adjust the chainline a little bit by re-arranging spacers.

 

[DirtyMike]

Zark, you already have te 73MM cranks??? We set a few like that using the 83MM crankset, using a couple 5 mil spacers on each side to save the chainline.



All that aside, another option that will work very easily on that bike would ht the Howitzer system, they use the outboard bearing, but still use a spindle that is in the BB, so you just order the cranks, and the 56mm BB.

Thats what we have been doing on the Demo 8's with the offset rear ends. Works great

 

[Zark]

Zark, you already have te 73MM cranks??? We set a few like that using the 83MM crankset, using a couple 5 mil spacers on each side to save the chainline.



All that aside, another option that will work very easily on that bike would ht the Howitzer system, they use the outboard bearing, but still use a spindle that is in the BB, so you just order the cranks, and the 56mm BB.

Thats what we have been doing on the Demo 8's with the offset rear ends. Works great

Yeah Dustin, I already have the 73mm cranks (came off my M1 over 2 years ago). I was trying to set my buddy up on the cheap with some used hardware, but it doesn't look like its happening.

I've set up a Demo 8 with the Holzfeller/Howitzer system and it works quite well and painless. Might be an option, but we'll see.

 

[PhilipW]

Just chiming in, we also strongly recommend the Howitzer system...all sorts of BB sizes are offered, especially that 73mm x 56mm chainline model that the Demo's need. It is also for bikes that have the 73x150mm rear end...KHS Lucky, Older IH SGS, Demo, and other bikes that should have an 83mm BB shell.

Anyways, Raceface also makes a little reducer kit for their 83mm Diabolus cranks (and any other 83mm cranks they make, I assume) so that you can run the cranks on a 73mm shell.

Unfortunately Shimano doesn't have a solution to this issue yet, but I'm hoping they see how needed it is (especially since the Demo is getting pretty popular now). You could theoretically make up some 24mm inner diameter spacers to put on the spindle, but of course it is all at your own risk.

I havn't had any issues with my 06/07 Holzfellers...basically untouched since I installed my LG1 a season or two ago.

Good luck, and if you have any chainguide fitment issues, shoot me an email!

Cheers,
philip @ e13

 

[DirtyMike]

Just chiming in, we also strongly recommend the Howitzer system...all sorts of BB sizes are offered, especially that 73mm x 56mm chainline model that the Demo's need. It is also for bikes that have the 73x150mm rear end...KHS Lucky, Older IH SGS, Demo, and other bikes that should have an 83mm BB shell.

Anyways, Raceface also makes a little reducer kit for their 83mm Diabolus cranks (and any other 83mm cranks they make, I assume) so that you can run the cranks on a 73mm shell.

Unfortunately Shimano doesn't have a solution to this issue yet, but I'm hoping they see how needed it is (especially since the Demo is getting pretty popular now). You could theoretically make up some 24mm inner diameter spacers to put on the spindle, but of course it is all at your own risk.
I havn't had any issues with my 06/07 Holzfellers...basically untouched since I installed my LG1 a season or two ago.

Good luck, and if you have any chainguide fitment issues, shoot me an email!

Cheers,
philip @ e13

Local Metal worker had soem COld roll that was the proper OD, he drilled it out for what we were doing for baout fifty bucks

 

[DirtyMike]

Yeah Dustin, I already have the 73mm cranks (came off my M1 over 2 years ago). I was trying to set my buddy up on the cheap with some used hardware, but it doesn't look like its happening.

I've set up a Demo 8 with the Holzfeller/Howitzer system and it works quite well and painless. Might be an option, but we'll see.

If yo uwant to keep it cheap, get the Hussefelts, there about 80 bucks for the cranks 30 ish for the BB

 

[Zark]

If yo uwant to keep it cheap, get the Hussefelts, there about 80 bucks for the cranks 30 ish for the BB

No way in hell. I nuked 3 of those in a year.

 

[DirtyMike]

No way in hell. I nuked 3 of those in a year.

What??? How did you nuke the Hussefelt Howitzers? those things are friggin strong as hell. Maybe you were killing the original design, I have the new, and you know how big I am. been getting bigger and bigger over at Webb on them, smashed them more than a few times into rocks and there still running straight as can be.

 

[Zark]

What??? How did you nuke the Hussefelt Howitzers? those things are friggin strong as hell. Maybe you were killing the original design, I have the new, and you know how big I am. been getting bigger and bigger over at Webb on them, smashed them more than a few times into rocks and there still running straight as can be.

They weren't Howitzers. 1st pair ripped the pedal threads out after tagging a rock. 2nd pair threaded insert backed out while I was trying to change pedals, so I was stuck with the pedals that were mounted. Then I tagged a rock and ripped the pedal and insert out of the arm. 3rd pair I bent the spider and wallowed out the driveside ISIS interface.....a week after installing.

Its sounds like they stopped using their "butter-metal" alloy.

 

[slothy]

Hussefelt, Holzfeller, Howitzer,!!

Jeeze, are Truativs Marketing team stoned ! where they goin with those names.

 

[davep]

...Anyway, Raceface also makes a little reducer kit for their 83mm Diabolus cranks (and any other 83mm cranks they make, I assume) so that you can run the cranks on a 73mm shell.

Unfortunately Shimano doesn't have a solution to this issue yet, ...

The race face adapter kit will also work with shimano or FSA external cranks. They all share the same 24mm OD spindle so the spacers fit....the only other part is the shorter inner dust cover/accordian (that is not needed on many modern frames w/o vent holes into the bb shell).

 

[DirtyMike]

They weren't Howitzers. 1st pair ripped the pedal threads out after tagging a rock. 2nd pair threaded insert backed out while I was trying to change pedals, so I was stuck with the pedals that were mounted. Then I tagged a rock and ripped the pedal and insert out of the arm. 3rd pair I bent the spider and wallowed out the driveside ISIS interface.....a week after installing.

Its sounds like they stopped using their "butter-metal" alloy.

Oh Dude, you got jacked ont he old ones, the new ones are Much better, There are two now, one with an insert, use a torque wrench, the insert wont come out, and one without, much harder aluminum. Give the new ones a shot, you wont be dissapointed