anybody know the dates that national champs will be next year?
Vermont National Championships 2008
- Thread starter evanthefix
- Start date
July 17-20
fast course this year?
New for this year, no turns at all.
No trail even.
Just a start gate and a finish line.
i heard half price entry to anyone who brings their own weed-whacker
lthumbsdown:
Yeah, but it will still cost you 20 bucks for the joy of parking.
Who Cares? As long as Norba is running things it will not be legit!
NORBA hasn't been running things since 2003. Pull your head out.
July 17th-20th at Mount Snow.
As far as I know, unless you are a pro you have to qualify.
I know you can qualify at the NMBS race at Windham & I think also the VA state championships at Massanutan (VA was a qualifier last year)
I guess any of the other races in the NMBS series would be qualifiers, but I'm not sure.
As far as I know, unless you are a pro you have to qualify.
I know you can qualify at the NMBS race at Windham & I think also the VA state championships at Massanutan (VA was a qualifier last year)
I guess any of the other races in the NMBS series would be qualifiers, but I'm not sure.
Any USAC sanctioned race before the date of national championships will qualify you. Top 15 is the cut off for qualifiers. Everyone semi-pro and under has to qualify, Pros do not.
Yeah whoever runs it, its still Norba - USA Cycling whoever and so is the qualifiers and yeah it's so legit I think 10 people showed up last year.
I been around bro! racing these things since 97'and also a past NORBA series National Champion -
So til you've had as much dealings with USA cycling or Norba or whatever they try to call themselves
these days to escape the "Norba" reputation, GET YOur Head OUT, and look around at how the scene is being
exterminated by those money suckin' roady F*#s
how 'bout you take your own advice and understand what you are talking about first? thanks.
Um, national races suck. They are not run by Norba, USAC or anyone related to that. They are run by a promoter who doesn't care about customer service, only the almighty dollar. This promoter has driven national level gravity racing into the ground, not USAC. USAC hasn't helped, granted, but they haven't done the damage.
Once they remove his right to use "national series" when the contracts ends, things should turn around.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I figured out who it must be, and I have to say, the Norba Nationals site is one of the worst I have ever seen. I can't even find results, even with googling.
All I know is USA Cycling takes my 150 dollars for a license and post
the National Series and National Championship on their website.
Plus the entry forms say USA cycling mountain bike championships
I don't know what title they go by but, that is who we have to hold
accountable if that's whose taking the money. I didn't race any of
the National series in 06' cause I was sick of the ****! 07 gave a couple
races a try, and built a course for "USA cycling" at one of the events.
07 was just worse than before and everyone else is bailing out too!
Seemed like the majority of riders were here from Australia or somewhere!
Another topic "why do US companies fill their rosters with foreigners to
race a US series?
My Point is that it isn't a legit series or National championship race if
the best from the country aren't present. I'm not taking anything
from past champs. Just saying it doesn't pull me to a championship when
I know that there are like 4 out of the top 5 pro's at least that aren't even
considering it worth f@#cking with.
I know Team Big Bear technically ran the race and have since 04
but, who pays em? Or who do they work through? USA cycling?
The way I see it is the organization that takes my money for a license
should represent me and everyone else that pays em also.
I pay for you to exist as an organization, then catch my back damn it
and make sure races are put on at least as good as 10-15 years ago.
I have held several backyard races that have had 30 racers and paid
out more than a freakin' National, and about every race that isn't a national gives some reward for winning.
I know they have quite a bit more overhead but, it is easy to call up some
sponsors and get some prizes or something.
Then the courses are a whole nother deal. It has been a crap shoot-
travel thousands of miles to do a "national" then find out - huh
I could of drove a couple hours and rode something much better.
I like to compete against the best just like everyone else who attends these
races but, I don't want to race em in the parking lot. Then get T-boned
and awh the official missed it. Just sh!ty all the way around
Have fun hope you guys enjoy it! Cause spending your money to these guys is definetly going to turn things around. I think it is very sad!
the National Series and National Championship on their website.
Plus the entry forms say USA cycling mountain bike championships
I don't know what title they go by but, that is who we have to hold
accountable if that's whose taking the money. I didn't race any of
the National series in 06' cause I was sick of the ****! 07 gave a couple
races a try, and built a course for "USA cycling" at one of the events.
07 was just worse than before and everyone else is bailing out too!
Seemed like the majority of riders were here from Australia or somewhere!
Another topic "why do US companies fill their rosters with foreigners to
race a US series?
My Point is that it isn't a legit series or National championship race if
the best from the country aren't present. I'm not taking anything
from past champs. Just saying it doesn't pull me to a championship when
I know that there are like 4 out of the top 5 pro's at least that aren't even
considering it worth f@#cking with.
I know Team Big Bear technically ran the race and have since 04
but, who pays em? Or who do they work through? USA cycling?
The way I see it is the organization that takes my money for a license
should represent me and everyone else that pays em also.
I pay for you to exist as an organization, then catch my back damn it
and make sure races are put on at least as good as 10-15 years ago.
I have held several backyard races that have had 30 racers and paid
out more than a freakin' National, and about every race that isn't a national gives some reward for winning.
I know they have quite a bit more overhead but, it is easy to call up some
sponsors and get some prizes or something.
Then the courses are a whole nother deal. It has been a crap shoot-
travel thousands of miles to do a "national" then find out - huh
I could of drove a couple hours and rode something much better.
I like to compete against the best just like everyone else who attends these
races but, I don't want to race em in the parking lot. Then get T-boned
and awh the official missed it. Just sh!ty all the way around
Have fun hope you guys enjoy it! Cause spending your money to these guys is definetly going to turn things around. I think it is very sad!
all the pro's showed up for national champs last year, at least for downhill. I dont know anybody that would have been a threat to win it that didnt show up.
i said that might win, you ram!
Team big bear works "through" themselves. You, the racer, pays them. Not USAC. If you don't like it, don't go. Many major teams elected to not do the national series races because they sucked. At this point everyone is aware of this. Some of us are also aware of the facts however.
The decision not to pay out was TBBs, not USAC's. Again, TBB wanting to milk you for every penny. Crappy course and venue selection? Yup, you guessed it. Also, TBB.
BTW the national championships and the national series are 2 completely separate affairs. Neither one has anything to do with the other besides potentially qualifying for the event in non pro categories.
How many more years does TBB have a lock on the series?
True a license is $150 and you can bitch to USA Cycling about that. The entry fee at a race has only a small portion going to USA Cycling to cover the rider for insurance under $10 I believe.
For NMBS everything else is on TBB shoulders. USA Cycling can't do anything about it due to a contract with TBB. This past year USA Cycling did change how they classify races and awarded points for the races. Many regional races had more importance and credibility this year than the NMBS races put on by TBB. Payout is up to the promoter not the sanctioning body. To help motivate promoters to get a purse USA cycling classifies races based on payout. This is how regional races all over the US had more importance than NMBS races this year. The National Championships unfortunately is also promoted my TBB.
I attended several races this summer under USA Cycling's santioning that had very good payouts $1000+.
I think the contract with TBB is up after the 2008 season.
If you don't like it, don't go. Many major teams elected to not do the national series races because they sucked. At this point everyone is aware of this. Some of us are also aware of the facts however.
Yep-I won't, and that is why I replied who cares?
The rest was explaining why after all you guys commented that I did
not no what was going on.
You however seem to know what's up- the others just want to make
it seem like USAC has no responsibilty. All the officials there weren't
Team Big Bear! Anywho I'm just done for countless reasons.
Yep-I won't, and that is why I replied who cares?
The rest was explaining why after all you guys commented that I did
not no what was going on.
You however seem to know what's up- the others just want to make
it seem like USAC has no responsibilty. All the officials there weren't
Team Big Bear! Anywho I'm just done for countless reasons.
I hope Transcend knows what he's talking about. He only runs an online magazine devoted to the DH race scene.
No Duh!
Still who does TBB have the contract to run the races with???
USAC just got tired of hearing it all when it sucked when they ran it, so they contracted
those guys to take the blame. It is about all the same freakin' jackasses that are doin'
the footwork as when Norba had the credit. A few faces have changed but, the result is the same...
CRAP
Honestly, the whiney b**** downhiller mentality brings me down at races more than the actual fees I have to pay. Get in the gate and race, or stay home.
I could be wrong here but I think I remember TBB being part of the group of people in NORBA that ran most of the national races back in the day. When NORBA decided to get out of promoting the series these people left and formed TBB and got the contract to run the national series.
Thanks
TBB is a completely separate business from USAC. They came in towards the end of the NCS series, but many promoters put on events back then (round and round was another promoter). TBB was hired by USAC to run the program because no organizing body should be responsible for the promotion end of things. They are not professional promoters. They do not know the venues or have the staff necessary to have people on the ground at all of the venues to setup and tear down etc. TBB does, but somehow they still manage to suck at it.
USAC did a good thing by hiring a professional team to run things. The problem is, they hired TBB and not a competent group of people who actually gave a damn about the customers who are buying their product. Due to their contract, they have a captive audience through next season. After that, I'd be willing to bet that you will see vast changes occurring in how things are run.
I'd hazzard a guess and say that the new national points series events are a test run for things to come. No single promoter will be responsible for the series as a whole, but a set of standards and schedules will be created that separate promoters can adhere to and have their events flagged as "national points series" events. This will in turn cause competition between promoters to put on better events as well as mean if one event promoter is as screwed up as TBB, you only cause one event to suck, not an entire series.
As customers, we have every right to complain if the product we pay for is total SHIITE. Barely mowed lawn as a course, bad tape jobs, no tape jobs during walking course inspection, no prize money, badly run registration, cheap-ass paper number plates, lift fees on top of the registration fee, screwed up practice times, schedule changes without notification etc.
When I pay $75 or more to participate in an event, I expect it to be run professionally, not half assed.
I have run a professional team for 6 years, and raced for much longer. It has included worlds team members, top 30 world cup finishes, full factory support etc. We used to attend every single NCS event, pay for pit space etc. We haven't attended an event in 3 years, and it has been 4 or more since we did an entire NCS run.
In that time, the national series has gone from being more competitive than the World Cup, to being the only national series I know of that does not offer a payout or UCI qualifying points. It is a complete and utter laughing stock where athletes from the host country do not even attend.
If you want to settle for mediocrity, that is your choice, some of us would prefer things to be done right. If you think people wanting value for their $ is whining, you have a lot to learn.
I know TBB is completely separate. I read my post again and it was not completely clear what I was trying to say.
Yes, several promoters used to run the National series and TBB was one of them. When USAC decided to get out of promoting I think some of the people that worked at USAC joined TBB. With these people joining TBB it gave them the ability to run all the races, just not very well.
I used to compete in Trials, talk about USAC screwing up it killed the sport in the US. As trials riders we completely broke away from USAC but a solid sanctioning body could not be formed and the competition side of the sport all but disappeared. The North American Trials Series was formed but could never flourish. The damage from USAC to competition was done. National comps are lucky to have 20 people show up.
Having seen something like this happen before I do not mind supporting USAC. They seem to be making an effort to fix their mistake. I will not support any races held by TBB, Frosty is a very closed minded individual. Right now if DH completely broke away from USAC it would really hurt it. You would have backyard races all over but nothing would have any credibility with the rest of the World. You might get a few races like the US Open, but nothing to help riders progress to World Cups, or Worlds. Then also you would have no way of deciding who the top riders in the nation are.
Yes, several promoters used to run the National series and TBB was one of them. When USAC decided to get out of promoting I think some of the people that worked at USAC joined TBB. With these people joining TBB it gave them the ability to run all the races, just not very well.
I used to compete in Trials, talk about USAC screwing up it killed the sport in the US. As trials riders we completely broke away from USAC but a solid sanctioning body could not be formed and the competition side of the sport all but disappeared. The North American Trials Series was formed but could never flourish. The damage from USAC to competition was done. National comps are lucky to have 20 people show up.
Having seen something like this happen before I do not mind supporting USAC. They seem to be making an effort to fix their mistake. I will not support any races held by TBB, Frosty is a very closed minded individual. Right now if DH completely broke away from USAC it would really hurt it. You would have backyard races all over but nothing would have any credibility with the rest of the World. You might get a few races like the US Open, but nothing to help riders progress to World Cups, or Worlds. Then also you would have no way of deciding who the top riders in the nation are.
ah-f'ing-men. This isn't a race to the bottom, though that seems to be the mentality in America these days
Yup. I know from local dealers in Quebec, when the Quebec Cups are doing well (like now) their high end XC and DH bikes sell much better. I don't know how a national series would effect this, but I would imagine it gets people excited to "once day" race that series at the top level, and begin competing at the grassroots level, which raises sales locally. Only a guess though.
I think another thing hurting shop sales is sponsorship clearinghouses, as the shop team seems to have gone the way of the dodo in recent years, possibly due in part to the decline of bigtime racing in America.
Kids have no idea what it means to "be sponsered" (typo intended). They know all they have to do is fire an instant message off to company A and they have a likely chance of being "allowed" to purchase things at cost +15.
The shop just lost a sale, a good customer and 15%. Of course, they lack the camaraderie, the assistance and technical support that a good local race shop would offer, but that is besides the point. They have no idea how to represent sponsors properly... it isn't only about results or "their highlight tape!"
This is especially true for beginners who have paid no dues, have never raced and don't have a clue. I know someone will complain that even beginners have "a right to be sponsered", but I am not even going to bother arguing this. It isn't a right, it's a privilege that is earned through experience, attitude and perseverance.
Well to stick up for my southern brother I have to say that my license to USAC is an agreement with them that they will uphold some type of integrity in the cycling world and particularly racing. I have seen TBB disregard for the brotherhood of cycling especially gravity and at some point USAC could have stepped in and made demands of the organization to straighten their sh!t out. Anyone who thinks differently is only kidding theirselves.
I do think racers need to bond at this time and start thinking about the future of the sport. Metal Dude has taken it on his shoulders to have races at his slalom track and I have plans to restart the races on ETSU campus. This is the way to get our sport back on top, but we will need representation from USAC b/c that is what a organizing body is for! Do you think the UCI would sit back and let a promoter destroy the sport?
I do think racers need to bond at this time and start thinking about the future of the sport. Metal Dude has taken it on his shoulders to have races at his slalom track and I have plans to restart the races on ETSU campus. This is the way to get our sport back on top, but we will need representation from USAC b/c that is what a organizing body is for! Do you think the UCI would sit back and let a promoter destroy the sport?
Anyone who doesn't know the facts yet still disagrees with those who do is kidding themselves.
There is a difference between productive complaining, and useless banter in my opinion. I'm willing to bet that 75% of the people who complain about the same things you have don't actually take steps to speak with the right people. Would you be annoyed to sit next to a couple at a restaurant that complained about terrible food, yet pass up every opportunity to ask the waitress to speak with a manager? If all people do is post on the internet and talk amongst eachother at races, then its not anything like a disatisfied customer as you suggested, its a bunch of b*tches.
I agree, I have raced some pretty crappy courses since I started. Poorly taped, lack of preperation, lack of maintenance, etc. etc. I won't defend Mount Snow's Pro national course any longer. It rightfully deserves its straight-lined barely-prepared reputation. However, there is a difference between complaining about a national course and a small local series course. Every race weekend I listen to riders complain about a small section of the course. Most of them have raced it in the past, knew it was in the course before arriving, and expect it to magically disappear the following year on its own. How does one expect changes if they take no steps towards them?On the opposite end of the spectrum, I've watched enough riders speak up about a section that the trail crew came out and fixed it during practice.
It's not about settling for mediocrity, its about backing up your words with actions. There are very few people I know who actually do this, but not enough to actually make a difference. I've seen alot of racers complain about the quality of the course like they know any better. If there is anything to be said about the american mentality towards racing, its that we all often expect a whole lot more for a whole lot less. Often times, I won't speak up because I see nothing wrong. I don't attend small local races with the expectation of a world cup caliber track. I am realistic. If there to be a section that's total garbage, I spend my time practicing it instead of sitting in my fold out chair at the base complaining.
That's funny. I noticed the only suggestion you made to improve racing is to complain more.
Personally, I have complained to my Norba representative. I also volunteer in the best run downhill race in America, the Downieville Classic.
The majority of racers will never become race promoters. Besides volunteering at the races they do like, complaining is the only other alternative.