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Waterboarding: Yep, we do it!

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,183
1
TN
CIA director Michael Hayden confirmed in an open session of Congress Tuesday his agency's use of an interrogation technique many consider torture -- a technique at the center of a national debate on the treatment of U.S. detainees in the war on terror and in the war in Iraq.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/TheLaw/story?id=4244423&page=1

...but as long as we don't "define" it as torture, than it's not torture. NTTATWWT.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,257
7
Reno 911
Maybe Mr. Hayden should undergo a little waterboarding under senatorial supervision on this subject.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,183
1
TN
Isn't Waterboarding being added to the Summer X-Games this year?
It would be pretty cool if someone decided to hold the "Terrorist Olympics" where you had to go through different events to win an Omnium Terror Award. The events would be things like:

How Long Can you stand to be Waterboarded before giving up Osama's Location.

Timed IED construction out of bare materials

A beard contest

Beheading an Amerian Dummy on Camera

Flight simulator (no "landing" involved)
 
Aug 6, 2007
61
0
amish country
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/TheLaw/story?id=4244423&page=1

...but as long as we don't "define" it as torture, than it's not torture. NTTATWWT.


Yeah, you honestly care that the 911 mastermind was waterboarded? Geneva Convention should only apply to those who themselves follow it. They didnt; they dont receive its protections.

"I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew, Daniel Pearl, in the city of Karachi, Pakistan," said a Pentagon transcript of Saturday's hearing. "For those who would like to confirm, there are pictures of me on the Internet holding his head." ----Kalid sheikh Mohammed

This is the guy they waterboarded....do you think Daniel pearl would have wanted waterboarding or beheading.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,183
1
TN
Yeah, you honestly care that the 911 mastermind was waterboarded? Geneva Convention should only apply to those who themselves follow it. They didnt; they dont receive its protections.

"I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew, Daniel Pearl, in the city of Karachi, Pakistan," said a Pentagon transcript of Saturday's hearing. "For those who would like to confirm, there are pictures of me on the Internet holding his head." ----Kalid sheikh Mohammed

This is the guy they waterboarded....do you think Daniel pearl would have wanted waterboarding or beheading.
Actually, I do care. Maybe a few years ago I wouldn't have, but administering punishments before convictions is not the American way, nor is cruel and unusual punishment. Also, two wrongs dont make a right.
Also, I dont like my gov't being so evasive all the time either.
 

SPINTECK

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2005
1,370
0
abc
I saw the head of the cia say the techniques we use really aren't torture to soldiers because they're so fit. "You should see what we do to train our own soldiers, that might be considered torture."

Torture to me is removing red meat from my diet:)
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Actually, I do care. Maybe a few years ago I wouldn't have, but administering punishments before convictions is not the American way, nor is cruel and unusual punishment. Also, two wrongs dont make a right.
Also, I dont like my gov't being so evasive all the time either.
Not to mention it will decline standards for other countries when treating our or any other POW/POW like prisoners. If first world countries aren't humane they won't think about it at all.
 

SPINTECK

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2005
1,370
0
abc
Actually, I do care. Maybe a few years ago I wouldn't have, but administering punishments before convictions is not the American way, nor is cruel and unusual punishment. Also, two wrongs dont make a right.
Also, I dont like my gov't being so evasive all the time either.

Exactly! Revenge is one thing, but when THE STATE does the torture and murdering it becomes what it claims to stop.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,222
85
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
It would be pretty cool if someone decided to hold the "Terrorist Olympics" where you had to go through different events to win an Omnium Terror Award. The events would be things like:

How Long Can you stand to be Waterboarded before giving up Osama's Location.

Timed IED construction out of bare materials

A beard contest

Beheading an Amerian Dummy on Camera

Flight simulator (no "landing" involved)
MONKEY BARS!! Don't forget about the monkey bars!!!
 
Aug 6, 2007
61
0
amish country
Actually, I do care. Maybe a few years ago I wouldn't have, but administering punishments before convictions is not the American way, nor is cruel and unusual punishment. Also, two wrongs dont make a right.
Also, I dont like my gov't being so evasive all the time either.
I couldnt agree more....for american citizens or nations that follow the rules of warfare. Convictions are not required for enemy combatants captured on a field of battle not wearing the colors of the country they fight for, you are applying innate rights of US citizens to someone that is not an american, apples and oranges. Terrorist and an enemy that hides within the populous can not receive the same benefits as soldiers that do. That is the message that should be sent. You want fair, then play fair. We cant and should not show an ounce of compassion or leniency b/c we will be given none.

"two wrongs dont make a right." See you are turing this into a battle of morals. That is a losing philosophy. It is a good philosophy to have, in most aspects of life, but not in a war. Politeness in warfare is a new invention and is counter productive to the ultimate goal of winning.

I know there is a line that a government can cross when it stops being for the people and by the people. My point is waterboarding someone who killed 3000+ us citizens doesnt come close to that line. Nor does waterboarding someone who MAY have information that can save even one soldiers life. A terrorists comfort is secondary to a soldiers, us citizens, or innocent Iraqi's life in my eyes.

I understand your points, but i fundamentally disagree with nearly all i have ever read that you post (politics wise)(not bashing you either it's your opinnion and you are welcome to it). I would love to sit down over a few cases of beer and fight it out with you....sadly geography is a fickle b!tch and we live too far apart.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,791
35
Japan
MONKEY BARS!! Don't forget about the monkey bars!!!
Suicide bomber head-put. Whoevers head land furthest from the point of detonation wins.
Which of course leads to the next event- human jigsaw. You get duct tape and a staple gun and put 'em back together.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,253
2,117
I couldnt agree more....for american citizens or nations that follow the rules of warfare. Convictions are not required for enemy combatants captured on a field of battle not wearing the colors of the country they fight for, you are applying innate rights of US citizens to someone that is not an american, apples and oranges. Terrorist and an enemy that hides within the populous can not receive the same benefits as soldiers that do. That is the message that should be sent. You want fair, then play fair. We cant and should not show an ounce of compassion or leniency b/c we will be given none.
we do not follow the rules of warfare, ergo our soldiers should be tortured by your rationale.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,890
4
Hypernormality
I couldnt agree more....for american citizens or nations that follow the rules of warfare.
Uh, America doesn't follow the Geneva conventions, so do you get a special pass or something?
you are applying innate rights of US citizens to someone that is not an american, apples and oranges.
Indeed, we must not forget that non-American people are sub-human.
Terrorist and an enemy that hides within the populous can not receive the same benefits as soldiers that do. That is the message that should be sent. You want fair, then play fair.
Play fair? Says the side with the $$ military in the world? The side who invaded Iraq? Are you serious?
We cant and should not show an ounce of compassion or leniency b/c we will be given none.
Wait, are we talking about 9/11 or Iraq now? I guess it doesn't matter though right?

My point is waterboarding someone who killed 3000+ us citizens doesnt come close to that line. Nor does waterboarding someone who MAY have information that can save even one soldiers life.
People who MAY have information can be tortured, just in case? I think maybe you need to think your position through a little bit more.