[- seb]

OK, a few points:

1) have been using Hope on my DH bike since 1998
2) my current Hopes are the original M4s, so 4years+ old

3) have a saint on my hardtail, really like it
4) have a juicy7 on my hartdail, don't like it - the lever has a "pop-out" thing to help stop damage in crashes, but I find my fingers push it out when I manual and then I can't reach it!

5) rear M4 is acting up - normally ok, but occasionally pulls all the way to the bar with little power?
6) I can't be bothered with rebuilding them with new seals etc, I want to buy something that is going to work well out of the box

7) I'm 12st6 (174lbs, 79kg)


So, what's the right choice for me? Saints seems like an easy choice since they're cheap (£100/end in the UK, moto M6/code etc are £160!). Are the expensive brakes any better than the Saints? I've only used my Saint while tooling around in town or at the jump spot - I presume there's no fade problems etc on long DHs?

My priorities (in order) are:

1) Consistency
2) Performance
3) Light-weight
4) Price

cheers!

 

[- seb]

Further thoughts:

IF they work well enough (and I think the answer here will be that they do) I really like the fact that the saints are 2-pot - less to go wrong isn't it. 6pot looks fancy, but it's 3 times as many seals/pistons in your caliper to start leaking/sticking.


I think basically I've already decided that Saints are the right choice, but because they're so cheap I'm a little reluctant. Can anyone here tell me any BAD points of the Saints that I maybe don't know?

I'm not getting new hubs so I'd be running the 6-bolt XT rotors, I've read one report that these are very flimsy compared to the splined offerings - will I be ok with them or will they be bending all the time?

- seb

 

[Hougham]

Your hopes probably just need some new fluid and good pads. The pads hope use these days are very good unlike some of the older ones. So I would recommend genuine hope pads.

If you just really want new brakes and liked your hopes why not get a new set? There newest models are very good and if your worried about fade you can always go for vented rotors.

Or for a none Hope brake I would recommend Formula though the Shimano Saints work perfectly well. I have Saints on my current race bike. They do tend to eat pads but its no real problem.

Some one is bound to disagree but that is just because really most brakes are good these days and its really just down to personal preference.

 

[frznnomad]

new fluid, and a good bleed and your hopes should be running. i mean i dont have any experiance with hopes, but that is what i would do to any brake before rebuilding, and it should fix the problem.

ohh and about the saints they are excellent brakes. i have numerous friends that run them and swear by them. they arent the lightest things around but they are deffinatly some of the best brakes around man.

 

[dhmike]

I run saints and love them. i don't think there's a better brake out there.

 

[DirtyMike]

I will be installing some Hayes stroker trails on my bike when fontana winter series is over, I iwll post up a reveiw after I ride them on my own bike for a while, but the bikes I have played with that have them they have ben awesome.

 

[Eurotrash]

As you are in the UK, why not try some Quad DEUCE? I'm biased but for your Consitency, Performance and price they score top marks. I've been running mine for almost a year now with ZERO bleeding.
If you have any questions fire me a PM.

 

[dr.harmonica]

I have used all three brakes you mention. Hopes and Saint on my dh-race bike and Juicy 7 on my trail bike.

Go for the SaintsThey are as good as the Juicy 7 and way better than the M4 brakes. Juicy 7 or Codes will probably rival them, but since you do not like the lever I guess they are out of the question.

I find the Saints to be consistent, have good braking power and a great feel. I really don't find anything that are negative about them. Allthough the M4 was a good brake a couple of years ago, they never gave me enough braking power. Modulation was good, and they were easy to work on (despite what a lot of people say) but not as good as the Saints. (and yes, I switched to EBC pads and other types)

And besides, Saints are easy to get parts for and are cheap on Chainreactioncycles.

 

[Pbody]

Go for the Shimano Saints. Me and team have been using them for 3 years and not one problem. Easy to maintain and performance is great.

 

[William42]

I will be installing some Hayes stroker trails on my bike when fontana winter series is over, I iwll post up a reveiw after I ride them on my own bike for a while, but the bikes I have played with that have them they have ben awesome.

ran them for awhile, and if you can get over the weird lever feel (which it sounds like you have) and a creaky ass lever, they're amazing. Great power, great modulation (not quite as powerful as my codes, but if I can lock up either wheel with one finger no problem, then theres enough power there, and they have much better modulation then my codes), no fade in longer brake heavy decents, bashed them a couple times and they've held up amazingly.

switched them to my other bike in favor of the codes (just picked up a set of metallic pads for the codes, so we'll see if that changes anything) because I couldn't handle the creaky lever and weird lever pull.

Try some out - if you like the feel of them, they're a very solid A brake - first thing from hayes i've ever liked.

 

[bushrider]

I ran Saints on My Gemini DH all last season and Codes on my Demo9 DH both with 203mm rotors.

The Codes are slightly more powerful than the Saints but I had issues with the durability of the Codes. I would say that the Codes have a very slight edge over the Saints in terms of modulation. One other thing the codes have going for them is the split clamp and the flip flop lever design. Its nice that if your running an X9 or X0 shifter you can use the Avid matchmaker. One thing I don't like about my XO shifter is that I like to run my brake levers and shifter loose so if crash the levers will move and therefore are less likely to be damaged. Without a matchmaker you cant really do this with the XO shifter as the shifter will wobble on the clamp unless the clamp bolt is tight.

My Avid Code durability issue:
The master cylinder in the rear brake lever got stuck down and the whole lever assembly was replaced at the Crankworks SRAM tent at Whistler under warranty. I'm pretty sure the master cylinder failed due to the wet conditions at whistler. Later in the season the rear brake started to become inconsistent. The lever would intermittantly pull into the bar. Re-bleeding has fixed the problem for now. The mechanic at my LBS said a few of his other customers had similar issues with their Code levers.

The 2008 Codes have a redesigned lever so this issue may now be fixed.

If I was buying brakes over again I would not buy Codes as I do not think the slight performance increase is worth the extra weight and durability issues or additional cost.

I would either go with Saints with the new XT BL-M775 levers, the Formula Ones or 2nd hand Gustav Calipers with XT BL-M775 levers. I've not tried the Formula Ones just heard and read good things about them.

FYI Shimano claim that the XT BL-775 levers offer 20% more power compared to the previous m756 style levers.

 

[- seb]

If the new lever is 20% more powerful why havent they put them on the saint brakes yet?

They come on the XT brakes though for a little less than saints - £90-£95 vs £100! I've heard before that there's no functional difference between the XT & Saint calipers, is that still true? (Or was it ever?!)

What about the XTR brakes? Are they as durable/powerful as saints if you match them up to a 203mm disc, or are they aimed at XC only?

 

[Hougham]

If the new lever is 20% more powerful why havent they put them on the saint brakes yet?

Possibly they don’t think they need to. As already mentioned in this thread its not the power as even a 160mm rotor deore brake will stop you. Its rather more to do with the amount of heat you have to dissipate.

 

[Ian Collins]

mag codes

 

[OilCanRacer]

1) Consistency
2) Performance
3) Light-weight
4) Price

ok but you don't get brakes with all of these.

get formula mega. everything but price.