[evilbob]

While out on a ride this eve I ran across some DHers and they mentioned that Whistler was going to or had actually allready tamed down portions of Dirt Merchant and A-Line. Reason.....somebody (promenent DHer rumor has it) got banged up in a fall off of a popular drop and then threatened to sue. Anybody else hear anything about this. Hope it's not true, I haven't even been up one time this year yet.

 

[Roasted]

Haven't heard anything. I doubt they would as they are sued fairly often. It never goes public and is almost always settled.

I will ask around though, but, usually, this town is rumour mill and if that were true every local rider would have heard it.

 

[Roasted]

if anything with all the construction and building going on...trails are getting more distinct. Black is becoming really black and greens are freaking easy...The mountain is working really hard at making a very visible line...

 

[evilbob]

Yea I can imagine the number of times the park gets sued or idiots and attornies try. What bothered me the most is the rumor had a name attached to it. I can't mention who it is for a variety of reasons but am hoping if the rumor about the threat is true, somebody else knows the name and will post it. Then others will see this person in true light.................

 

[Roasted]

Well...depending on who he gets his information from it might not be consistent. We have a lot of lifties who "know it all" and locals as well. For the cost of redoing a-line mid season (we are close) it wouldn't be worth it considering the traffic. Also considering the new manmade stuff and garbonzo opening it just doesn't seem like a feasible idea. The only pro I would trust in this matter would be Shleye (wow I can't spell tonight) and maybe gracia (maybe...he lives here a bit but probably still doesn't have the connections of Richie)...past that and most people would be working off lifties and locals...

With how much it would cost...it just doesnt seem reasonable.

 

[evilbob]

True about the feasability (cost wise) of bowing to one cheap SOB. Just the name spilled to me is from the PNW on the south side of the boarder.

Wish I could make it up this weekend for the new section but I have things local I must attend to.

 

[Roasted]

No worries. The new section isn't going anywhere. If anything it is just a glimpse of the future. There is already more talk of expansion....like I said I will ask around and if I hear anything this site is the first to know....

btw thanx for the help picking a bike. The bighit kicks ass...now...I just need to find a fork that won't give me arthritis ...

 

[evilbob]

Your welcome. I'm running a Slider + on mine and it has been awesome. Maybe when I get a chance to go back up in a couple of weeks you can try mine. The bike is totaly setup for my 220lb bulk and I am much more impressed with the fork than I expected. I got it just to evaluate for the shop and had really entended to put a 888r on (which I also like), however it (slider +) is working so much better than I expected I am leaving it on.

 

[oly]

also browse NSMB..... maybe you can get those kids all stirred up.....

 

[Westy]

They need to tame things down due to so many people breaking the no hardtail law. It was easier to change the trails than to enforce the rule. You have only those selfish jerks riding hardtails to blame.

 

[Tweek]

Gotta be an American. Nobody sues anybody in Canada.

 

[buildyourown]

I heard (another rumor here) that they put a mid-size drop right at the beginning of A-line to scare off riders who have no business being on A-line. The rumor was that they will do this to DM also. I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I get to ride it.

Not to hyjack this thread, but I was told that Canada's tort laws are different than the US. Lawyers can't give you the "We don't get paid, unless you get paid!" routine. If people have to pay for lawyers out of their own pocket, regardless if you win or loss, that cuts out most of the frivilous stuff.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I heard (another rumor here) that they put a mid-size drop right at the beginning of A-line to scare off riders who have no business being on A-line. The rumor was that they will do this to DM also. I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I get to ride it.

That be smart, and it is called "Filtering" a very big IMBA buzz word.

 

[Velocity Girl]

I heard (another rumor here) that they put a mid-size drop right at the beginning of A-line to scare off riders who have no business being on A-line. The rumor was that they will do this to DM also. I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I get to ride it.

Not to hyjack this thread, but I was told that Canada's tort laws are different than the US. Lawyers can't give you the "We don't get paid, unless you get paid!" routine. If people have to pay for lawyers out of their own pocket, regardless if you win or loss, that cuts out most of the frivilous stuff.

Yes, they do have a drop at the beginning of A-Line now. It's not very big at all, 2 footer maybe??? But enough that it might spook a true beginner and make them think twice about going off it.

 

[Snacks]

No worries. The new section isn't going anywhere. If anything it is just a glimpse of the future. There is already more talk of expansion....like I said I will ask around and if I hear anything this site is the first to know....

btw thanx for the help picking a bike. The bighit kicks ass...now...I just need to find a fork that won't give me arthritis ...

Roasted: What are the trails like on the new top section?

 

[Showtime]

There is a very small drop (maybe 2 1/2 feet) at the top of A-Line this year. If you can't do that drop, you probably shouldn't ride anything but B-line up there. As for work on A-line and DM, I dont think they have dumbed anything down at all. They did mess up the step-up/hip right after the big rock drop on DM, it was really perfect 2 weekends ago, and then they messed with it last week, and last weekend it sucked. Its still a stepup, but it was really loose, it probably just needs some water on it and some packing down.

 

[Roasted]

Roasted: What are the trails like on the new top section?

Haven't ridden them. They open this weekend. But I know how they have been described. Long steep singletrack. Some jumps, drops etc...sounds like fun.

 

[TWISTED]

I can't imagine anybody complaining about A-line being too difficult.
It's all basic tabletops, everythings well thought out and intelligently built.
They came to the wrong place to ride and fill up the lift line. Last summer when I was there last, there were crowds of 5 to 15 riders stopped at the A-line drop each time I went off it. Come on! That drop can't be more than 8 feet at the most, I never stopped to look at it.

 

[Roasted]

Twisted....to more riders than not...8ft is big. But yeah, why hang out when it is easy to roll. Those tables are big for a lot of riders. I think the mountains BIGGEST weakness is not having an alternative to aline for learning. Learning how to drop on the mountain is easy but learning how to jump, you have to go right onto a-line (or DM). Personally I think b-line should be increased to a blue and small jumps 'resembling' a-line should be added for training. Might cost a bit but would decrease the learning curve for those of us still learning

It would also help decrease 'family' traffic on a-line.

[edit]
I also don't think a 3 pac or even the one jump helps learn how to ride a-line. You need the berms and continous non braking feeling
[edit]

 

[gooch]

Last summer when I was there last, there were crowds of 5 to 15 riders stopped at the A-line drop each time I went off it. Come on! That drop can't be more than 8 feet at the most, I never stopped to look at it.

The first time I rode A-line I stopped and looked at the rock drop before I droped it. being the first time I ever ran the trail (and not having someone in front of me), I looked at it for a second and then hit it, after that it was a non-stop ride.
But to a lot of riders, they like to see the landing and what not on a new drop before hitting it. I did follow a rider down DM my first time and just rode where he rode and droped what he droped.

 

[TWISTED]

Whistler is an expensive trip for most people. I would assume that a person would already have basic freeriding skills before making the journey to the promised land. Maybe I'm just lucky to have good local trails with bigger jumps and drops than Whistler. At the end of my first run down Whistler (A-Line) I found that the builders knew their shizzit. The lines all flowed intelligently. All drops had the landings where they should be. If you came out of a corner and pedals at a comfortable speed, it seemed to be the right speed to perfectly clear the double etc. They (the trail builders ) gained my trust quickly so that when I hit a new trail for the first time I had no problem doing every jump, drop, etc. the first time down. No one, NO ONE should blame Whistler and it's crew for ANYTHING bad that happens to them up there.
I'm no teenaged daredevil, I'm 35 with a job and it hurts when I crash just as much or more than the next guy.
So no diss'n on Whistler.

 

[Roasted]

Ummm...ok...I wasn't and never would. I am a full believer in personal responsibility. I am also a full believer in the quality of the trails and how they are built.

I was simply pointing out your ignoring the fact that 8ft is big. You are making an assumtion that everyone coming here is experienced. Most aren't (right now they are all experienced...come the summer time, whole families will be riding down advanced trails ) which is why so many locals complain about a-line being overrun by slow people. Also Whistler is a family vacation spot...not JUST a freerider heaven. I am not sure why you assume I was diss'n whistler. But I also try to speak with my friends on the mountain and a few of us believe the jump between b-line and a-line is too great and there is nothing in between to train on. That was simply my point.

8ft may not be big to you...just like clownshoes is a joke to shore kids...both are still pretty-very advanced for lots of riders...

 

[TWISTED]

Sorry Roasted. I didn't really mean to be getting on your case. But really, by all accounts those tabletops on A-line are total beginner stuff, aren't they? They aren't even doubles, you need not even get off the ground. Doesn't everyone have a local BMX track or some dirt jumps nearby?
Anyway I love bikes and ride everyday. Hopefully I will save up enough pennies to make it up there this year. I assumed the other riders up there were like me, die hard downhill/ freeriders, not vacationing families.
No harm intended. :love:

 

[Roasted]

I wasn't taking offence. Just wanted to make sure you knew I respect the builders too ...

Total beginner...I don't know, maybe. If you have never hit jumps before (slightly big) and you only ride trails and keep the rubber side down then those jumps seem huge. (trust me I am only recently starting to catch air)...you are right, you don't have to leave the ground, but being passed by 40 high speed riders yelling at you to ride other trails gets annoying if you are trying to learn

The whole family issues should be fixed by the drops they are putting in before the hard trails. The one on a-line is only 2 ft but it will be enough to scare off most riders no capable.

Either way, the riding here is killer and the learning curve is fast. Whistler has done an awesome job making an area for all to come and learn. You can bring a total beginner to the mountain and have them riding really fun stuff in no time

 

[TWISTED]

Cool, when I yell to get by you, I'll say "PLEASE".
I guess I have no basis to judge what is easy or tough since I've been jumping bikes since I was busting stingrays back in '75 (jeez what is that, 29 years ago, I'm getting old). And work for Mountain Cycle as a test rider.
Have fun on the trails. I wish I lived in Whistler.

 

[Roasted]

...I really wish I had started younger. Hopped on my first trail 2.5 years ago (at the ripe age of 27) and haven't looked back...

I could definately see how a-line is small for you ...besides a month or so more and I am hoping I won't be passed too often

 

[shootr]

Twisted.
Your comments sound a little ignorant
First off, the Aline drop is one that has serious consequences if you were to take it at the speed you ride the rest of the trail. So obviously you were not flying on your onsite.
The berm right after it can easily be reached as a landing, and if you doubt it, I will show you when you come up next.
Contact riding the JUMPS on A line is the biggest problem "us" locals have with people who come here.
this is the most dangerous thing a begginer can do, as to contact ride them means that thier speeds are ridiculously low, and it is highly likely they will be passed by much faster riders.

I don't think you appreciate or understand the VOLUME of riders that come to Whistler... they don't go to your trails.. they come here, and that means ALL riders. So to say that people spend this exhorbant amount of money because they are already in possession of "basic freeriding skills" is completely false.

BUT the mountain is aware of this problem, and they just so happen to agree with roasted in how to address it. There is plans on turning B line into "A-line, Mini Me" a small scale version of the famous trail.

 

[Snacks]

Twisted....to more riders than not...8ft is big. But yeah, why hang out when it is easy to roll. Those tables are big for a lot of riders. I think the mountains BIGGEST weakness is not having an alternative to aline for learning. Learning how to drop on the mountain is easy but learning how to jump, you have to go right onto a-line (or DM). Personally I think b-line should be increased to a blue and small jumps 'resembling' a-line should be added for training. Might cost a bit but would decrease the learning curve for those of us still learning

It would also help decrease 'family' traffic on a-line.

I couldn't agree more. By the end of last year I was ready to jump and ride with more speed that wasn't avalible on the greens or blues. Everytime I rode A-Line I got ran off the trail.

I wish there was pre A-Line trail that I could practice on without getting in the way of the faster riders.

 

[llkoolkeg]

Let me be the first to admit I suck. I don't do big drops, I don't do tall skinnies, I don't do super-steep slick stuff in trees and the only thing I do worse than these is dirt jump. It's not that I don't procedurally know how to do these things, it's just that more often than not when I try, I end up in a crumpled pile of limbs and bike parts. I want to master these skills and am willing to take my bumps, but when it comes to expert DH courses and trails, I have a pitifully shallow learning curve. When I ride with good DHers, they usually have time to re-bleed their brakes before I make it to the bottom. Still, I love riding SOOO much, that I keep on rolling my Sisyphus Stone and get back on the bike.

It sounds to me like the changes are sensible ones. When I went to Whistler a couple years ago, I sucked even more than I do now but I was still passing people on A-Line. Sure, there were people passing me, too, but I was riding as fast as I dared. The things that helped me the most were pre-arranging rides with locals who showed me the ropes(by riding slow enough for me to mimic their lines) and me being brutally honest with them about my lack of skills. They took me on B-Line first to assess my lack of performance. B-Line was very easy for me and I kept up with them, so they took me to the freeride/drop practice areas and watched me on that stuff. We then did A-Line after they realized I wasn't the absolute worse they'd seen. Like the others have said, it is so expertly crafted in terms of flow that even though I nose-wheelied out of the first few jumps, I soon had the timing down. I certainly didn't "contact-ride" it, though, not that I didn't see others doing so. By my third run down the famed trail, I was carrying the tabletops and having a REAL good time.

What convinced me that real green newbies should be steered off A-Line was my last run of the day. I carried the last table before the big left-hand drop too far past the transition and blew up the back half of my bike. I paused to assess the damage and watched people sail off that drop for a while before jogging down the mountain with my bike on my back. BTW, it may be 8' if you wheelie drop it but many of those I saw hitting it- male and female- launched it at good speed and landed very close to where the bermed run-around intersected back with the run-out. They were dropping WAY more than 8'! Even though I jogged on the side of the trail and stopped(moving further out of the way) every time someone flew past me, I thought I was going to be creamed trying to get back down. Guys were flying past me at head height. I observed that the disparate speed at which different riders hit A-Line was amazing. The newbies were rolling all the tables at B-Line speed while others were hitting it like they were doing the MTX/Slalom course chasing Lopes. I saw more than one near miss. It was like watching blue-hairs try to merge their '88 caddys into a running of the Indy 500! Leave it to Whistler to come up with a polite way of letting real beginners know they are getting in over their heads on certain trails before they have opportunity to cause a collision.

 

[SR]

I think that first A line "drop" was intended to be a gap ...which does take a fair amount of skill to do. I think what draws people who lack the skill to ride A line with adequate speed is that first section after the first berm that you see as you are riding up the chairlift. When you are riding up the chair and you see people riding that section, it looks quite tame and fairly flat which can lead people to believe that the rest of the trail is the same and 'advanced' skills are not required to do the remainder of the trail. Personally I haven't run into too many problems with slow riders on A line. If I come across someone riding slow I just give a shout 'on your right" or "on your left" and pass them. I like passing people


...and I agree, it would be a great idea to have B-line include some smaller scale tables for those learning to jump

 

[Velocity Girl]

In response to the orgins of this thread....I really hope those are all just rumors and that someone would not be stupid enough to sue Whistler over an accident that is not Whistlers fault. Unless it is GROSS negligence on the part of Whistler, I just don't see how anyone who does what we do can not understand the inherent risk involved. If there were no risk, would we be wearing full face helmets and body armor? Just grinds me so many people now a days are sue happy and have no sense of personal responsibility. I may not be riding Whistler as much in the years to come, but I sure don't want it tamed down when I do, or to see Whistler get socked with phony lawsuits, just because someone want to make a quick buck.

I say we all go over and give this person a :nuts: !!!

Ok...rant over

 

[Marcus]

Preach it Velocity Girl!

I havent heard of any rumoured law suits against the mountain. With the Delta Watershed, there was a mention of a possibly one and the City of Delta acted swiftly and heavy handedly with chainsaws.

And a-line can be tame if you're not machin it down and turning the tables to gaps. Finally on my 3rd year of A line and its given me 17 stitches over 2 days and a nice foggy noggin.

 

[TWISTED]

Oop's, it sounds like I upset a few people. :mumble:
Having a beginner trail with easy jumps sounds like an excellent idea. I meant to be defending A-Line. I don't want them to make it easier for beginners.
I would like to see a new more advanced jump trail with much bigger gaps that take advantage of all the speed that is available coming down the mountain. A row of 30 or 40 foot rounded off basic doubles would be so fun. Maybe additions to Crabapple Hits. Those seemed to be the biggest jumps I could find up there. Then again, maybe it's perfect the way it is, big jumps = big crashes.

 

[Skookum]

i heard a rumor that Evilbob likes to start rumors. :evil:

 

[TWISTED]

Looks like I'm heading up July 8th and 9th.
Roasted, are you going to let me sleep on your floor?
You can come ride with us, we'll try to pass on some riding tips to you.

 

[shootr]

Twisted...
I don't think you upset anybody.
As far as large hits, the Crabapple hits have been redone this year and they are now in the thirty foot range for at least two of them.

The Garbanzo zone will have a trail with much larger high speed hits than the average A-line jumps.

There will always be bigger trails and larger jumps than can be found on Whistler in "homemade" trails.
Whistler has to concern itself with the masses, not a select few individuals who are capable of and like high risk type trails.

If you are going to be up here in early July, and would like to ride a trail with features that are correctly termed "expert level" PM me. I will give you my digits and I will be happy to take you there.... It is a short, fast, flowy trail with decent sized hits. It is in the Whistler Valley.
(note: this trail is almost sure to be included in some prominent MTB movies late this year or early next season, so this would be an opportunity to ride something that most people will only know about next year.. but bring your "A" game)

 

[TWISTED]

Cool, cool. Love the big jumps! High speed and big jumps! I used to race motocross and now ride my DH the same way. I can't ride skinnies at all, and don't care to learn. Go fast and big!
Your trail sounds good, PM me your info and I'll try to get ahold of you.

 

[holliswood]

. Just the name spilled to me is from the PNW on the south side of the boarder.

C'mon Bob, you got to give us a hint? Five weeks ago I took a sweet header in Whistler and came home with another concussion and a broken collar bone. But I didn't sue Whistler! That is such a crock! I get sick when I hear about jackasses not taking responsibility for their own actions. They should read the waiver on the back of their pass for starters. And second, they were in Canada, not the U.S. Whistler exsists as the worlds premeire riding venue because the laws are a bit slacker up there and the Canadians aren't sue happy like us. A place like Whistler would never fly in the U.S.
So c'mon, spill the beans!

 

[Velocity Girl]

. Just the name spilled to me is from the PNW on the south side of the boarder.

C'mon Bob, you got to give us a hint? Five weeks ago I took a sweet header in Whistler and came home with another concussion and a broken collar bone. But I didn't sue Whistler! That is such a crock! I get sick when I hear about jackasses not taking responsibility for their own actions. They should read the waiver on the back of their pass for starters. And second, they were in Canada, not the U.S. Whistler exsists as the worlds premeire riding venue because the laws are a bit slacker up there and the Canadians aren't sue happy like us. A place like Whistler would never fly in the U.S.
So c'mon, spill the beans!

I agree...spill the beans! The person needs a :nuts: (I'm liking that smiley today!) Jason got hurt up there a few weekends ago as well....but I was there and even have photographic evidence that it was no one's fault but his own and I'd personally kick his butt if even thought of suing

 

[Roasted]

Twisted...
I don't think you upset anybody.
As far as large hits, the Crabapple hits have been redone this year and they are now in the thirty foot range for at least two of them.

The Garbanzo zone will have a trail with much larger high speed hits than the average A-line jumps.

There will always be bigger trails and larger jumps than can be found on Whistler in "homemade" trails.
Whistler has to concern itself with the masses, not a select few individuals who are capable of and like high risk type trails.

If you are going to be up here in early July, and would like to ride a trail with features that are correctly termed "expert level" PM me. I will give you my digits and I will be happy to take you there.... It is a short, fast, flowy trail with decent sized hits. It is in the Whistler Valley.
(note: this trail is almost sure to be included in some prominent MTB movies late this year or early next season, so this would be an opportunity to ride something that most people will only know about next year.. but bring your "A" game)

oooooo...ahhh..is that...ummm...**** forgot the name. I think I know what you are talking about ...ummm...well either way I think I remember the name but am not sure if this is a private trail or one that everyone can hit.