Results will be live on the internet for the Whiteface 5 K Downhill here:
http://live-timing.com/race2.php?r=8977&u=60
http://live-timing.com/race2.php?r=8977&u=60
Whiteface 5 K Downhill live results
- Thread starter downhill mike
- Start date
Jesus, Geritt was on the gas.
yes he was, even without the chain.
i see the results are still "unofficial" but I can find a few mistakes already. but none that really matter though.
i see the results are still "unofficial" but I can find a few mistakes already. but none that really matter though.
Wow...so having a chain only adds 20 secs to Geritt's time. Crazy stuff.
how do you read these results?...very confused...
There is no class order. It goes from the quickest time... assuming the fastest beginner because their course was the shortest to the slowest person out of all the classes.
They took his chainless time off for some reason.
that's where i could see some mistakes. among others, they guy who started 30 secs behind me posted a time 50 seconds faster than mine despite not actually catching me (and no way i was 1 min slower than my race run w/out the chain). like i said though, no big deal, that race was done for fun more than anything else; some of us raced with our visors on backwards, there were a few skinsuits . . . you get the idea. i just wish i'd remembered to bring a cape.
Actually, I have a problem with the main race and the way the course was taped. Apparently a number of racers cut the course where the tape was down during the race. I know it's difficult to keep the tape completey intact on such a long course and with only two course marshalls on the race course it would be pretty easy not to get caught cutting the race course.
I was talking with several racers that were discussing just that after their runs and they simply said that if no tape was up then they felt that no rules were being broken by cutting across the course !
I can tell you that my team riders stayed on course despite being tempted to do otherwise, too bad some others did not see fit to play by the rules.
I was talking with several racers that were discussing just that after their runs and they simply said that if no tape was up then they felt that no rules were being broken by cutting across the course !
I can tell you that my team riders stayed on course despite being tempted to do otherwise, too bad some others did not see fit to play by the rules.
How the course is taped, and how to interpret it needs to be clearly defined in the rule book.
I know the Mountain State Cup this has been a heated topic. It has come to be agreed upon that if there is tape on both sides of the course everywhere is fair game. Tape on one side or no tape the worn path is the course.
I know the Mountain State Cup this has been a heated topic. It has come to be agreed upon that if there is tape on both sides of the course everywhere is fair game. Tape on one side or no tape the worn path is the course.
Actually I am refering to tape that is ripped down during the race by riders going off course etc. and then is not put back in place allowing later racers to feel jusitified in not following the intended race course.
This is commonly called " cutting the course ".
If tape comes down you follow the rules of the worn path is then the course. If it is in a section were a shorter line has developed during practice when the course had tape on both sides then a worn path will most likely have developed by race time.
We had 27 course marshals on the race course, not 2. Also the course was walked the day before by the chief NORBA official.
We do apologize for any confusion for the chainless category. I was at the bottom all day but it sounded a bit crazy for the chainless start.
The beginner race course wasn't the best idea as it delayed the start for everyone else.
Next year 1 course for all racers.
Thanks for all who came and raced and we hope to see you next year.
Mike, you guys put on a great race, that was the best course I've raced all year.
Thanks for a great time!
DIRTWRKS, where were people cutting the course?
Thanks for a great time!
DIRTWRKS, where were people cutting the course?
Thanks so much for racing and compliments! Best course all year, awesome we like hearing that!
Some racers thought the course was not steep enough like last years. I think we have so many great trails it's good to mix it up a bit.
We hired 15 of Whiteface's ski patrolers for course marshals and 12 volunteer course marshals. Their job was to replace any tape that came down, blow their whistle when a racer passed them safely, make sure spectators were not on the course and report anything necessary by 2 way radio. All 27 marshals on course had 2 way radios and were in earshot of each other.
I wish I knew of any course cutting during the race as I was positioned next to the chief NORBA official and our head timer the entire race. The cash pay out was significant and we take this kind of stuff very seriously.
At the pre-race meeting (9:30 am on race day) all rules were discussed along with the 1 hour for protest after the race. 1 person mentioned this to me after their race run and I said the NORBA official is 15 feet away from us lets let him know, I then used my radio to remind all course marshals to replace any tape that was down and make sure racers were staying on the course.
The 2 course marshal comment I should not let bother me but 2 course marshals. C'mon. Maybe that was a typo?
Some racers thought the course was not steep enough like last years. I think we have so many great trails it's good to mix it up a bit.
We hired 15 of Whiteface's ski patrolers for course marshals and 12 volunteer course marshals. Their job was to replace any tape that came down, blow their whistle when a racer passed them safely, make sure spectators were not on the course and report anything necessary by 2 way radio. All 27 marshals on course had 2 way radios and were in earshot of each other.
I wish I knew of any course cutting during the race as I was positioned next to the chief NORBA official and our head timer the entire race. The cash pay out was significant and we take this kind of stuff very seriously.
At the pre-race meeting (9:30 am on race day) all rules were discussed along with the 1 hour for protest after the race. 1 person mentioned this to me after their race run and I said the NORBA official is 15 feet away from us lets let him know, I then used my radio to remind all course marshals to replace any tape that was down and make sure racers were staying on the course.
The 2 course marshal comment I should not let bother me but 2 course marshals. C'mon. Maybe that was a typo?
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Geritt was riding the Makulu proto for the first time, so i guess that was the reason he was so fast
No they don't, I still look horribly slow. :biggrin:
actually lee, i think the chainless is correct, cause i started behind piper. i passed piper in the first woods and then towards the bottom i began to see dust clouds from you. and as i approached the finish you were just rounding the corner about 10 seconds ahead of me. hence the 50 second gap.
you're right, i forgot Piper was between us. i gotta lay of the kool-aid . . . and the brakes.
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Great race Mike, one of the best tracks of the year. I really doubt anyone was cutting the course, some people are just looking for excuses when the results don't pan out as expected. In a race that long it's not uncommon for 2 guys of similar ability to be separated by 20+ seconds rather than 2 or 3.
Now i want to see pictures. 
any pics of Geritt's rig?
It sounds like you are implying that some rider's left the course and got on somewhere else ahead. Being one of the 27 plus marshal's on the course and if that is what you are implying I need to say you're full of it. There was no one "cutting" the course. How was your time and what was your rider number? Perhaps you got beat by better riders and you need an excuse????
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how much can a person really cut corners when the track starts at one spot and DOESNT end at the same, not very many places where u really could save time bushwacking.
*no i was not there*
*yes this is a generalization*
*no i was not there*
*yes this is a generalization*
I have had a few calls today and some unanswered questions from yesterday about the timing.
Timing is something we do not mess around with and we hire the best. We have been hiring All Sports Events and they have been doing a great job. Even working with us today to get answers for all, was All Sports Events and our top priority.
After a detailed and lengthy phone call tonight All Sports just wrote this for me to post on this site.
"I have reviewed the timing logs and have verified all the times are correct for Kyle Hickey and Bert Boyce and all other athletes with timing questions brought to my attention.
We time all of our races in "Time of Day" where we have an actual recorded start time and finish time for each athlete, as opposed to net time, where each racer is started at "0" and then gets an elapsed time. Using this method, we can go back and check all data, and show how times were calculated, allowing for complete transparency. At this event there was primary and back-up timing at both the start and finish. I have verified the times from both the primary and back-up timing logs. Below is an explanation of what happened, directly from the primary timing tapes:
Kyle Hickey finished at: 14:26:55.170
Bert Boyce finished at: 14:27:31.008
There were no issues at the finish. Starts were being transmitted wirelessly and the start was not transmitted for #26 Kyle Hickey. This is not a big deal as the two back-up timers at the start recorded his start time. The chief timer used the start time from one of the timers at the start to calculate Kyle's actual time, but since his time was not sent down wirelessly, when Bert started, his start time was given to Kyle in the timing software, so his time was roughly one minute off when he finished. The problem was corrected on the fly so Bert's actual start time was assigned correctly before he crossed the finish, but not Kyle's. Kyle's time was corrected using his actual start time, after he finished from the timers at the start.
The original start time used for Kyle Hickey was: 14:19:56.538 but this was actually Bert Boyce's start time, and was correctly re-assigned to Bert Boyce before he actually finished. Kyle Hickey's actual start time was 14:18:57.676 (from the timers at the start). This is why the times were originally posted at about 1:30 seconds apart, and not about 30 seconds as was actually the case.
I hope this explains things."
Results can be found here:
http://www.live-timing.com/report.php?r=8977&rp=7521
Top 10 pro men:
pl bib name city state team time time back
1 19 Geritt Beytagh Fletcher NC Morwood 7:24.47
2 27 Bert Boyce Boston MA 7:34.47 10.00
3 2 Ben Moody Thornton NH Rhino Bike Works 7:47.66 23.19
4 7 Jason Memmelaar Chester NY Scott Diablo 7:50.43 25.96
5 18 Gavin Vaughan Sharon VT Snowfire Racing 7:51.96 27.49
6 207 Nicolas Dignard 7:55.95 31.48
7 26 Kyle Hickey Burlington VT Old Spokes Home 7:57.49 33.02
8 1 Jeff Thornton Pembroke NH Highland 8:02.71 38.24
9 25 Chris Scannell Burlington VT 8:03.30 38.83
10 6 Chris Higgerson Deansboro NY Morewood Michelin TL 8:04.10 39.63
Pro women:
Class : Pro Women
Time
Pl Bib Name City St Team Back
========================================================================================
1 31 Dawn Bourque Campton NH Rhino Bike Works 9:03.13
2 32 Karen Eagan Lowell MA Vitamin Water 9:21.58 18.45
3 35 Allie Burch Patterson NY Velo Bella 9:31.20 28.07
4 36 Marie-Eve Marcotte QC Primary/Devina 9:37.05 33.92
5 33 Candace Ellicott Ottawa ON 10:01.30 58.17
6 34 Alicia Hamilton Bethel CT Team Darwin 10:16.93 1:13.80
Timing is something we do not mess around with and we hire the best. We have been hiring All Sports Events and they have been doing a great job. Even working with us today to get answers for all, was All Sports Events and our top priority.
After a detailed and lengthy phone call tonight All Sports just wrote this for me to post on this site.
"I have reviewed the timing logs and have verified all the times are correct for Kyle Hickey and Bert Boyce and all other athletes with timing questions brought to my attention.
We time all of our races in "Time of Day" where we have an actual recorded start time and finish time for each athlete, as opposed to net time, where each racer is started at "0" and then gets an elapsed time. Using this method, we can go back and check all data, and show how times were calculated, allowing for complete transparency. At this event there was primary and back-up timing at both the start and finish. I have verified the times from both the primary and back-up timing logs. Below is an explanation of what happened, directly from the primary timing tapes:
Kyle Hickey finished at: 14:26:55.170
Bert Boyce finished at: 14:27:31.008
There were no issues at the finish. Starts were being transmitted wirelessly and the start was not transmitted for #26 Kyle Hickey. This is not a big deal as the two back-up timers at the start recorded his start time. The chief timer used the start time from one of the timers at the start to calculate Kyle's actual time, but since his time was not sent down wirelessly, when Bert started, his start time was given to Kyle in the timing software, so his time was roughly one minute off when he finished. The problem was corrected on the fly so Bert's actual start time was assigned correctly before he crossed the finish, but not Kyle's. Kyle's time was corrected using his actual start time, after he finished from the timers at the start.
The original start time used for Kyle Hickey was: 14:19:56.538 but this was actually Bert Boyce's start time, and was correctly re-assigned to Bert Boyce before he actually finished. Kyle Hickey's actual start time was 14:18:57.676 (from the timers at the start). This is why the times were originally posted at about 1:30 seconds apart, and not about 30 seconds as was actually the case.
I hope this explains things."
Results can be found here:
http://www.live-timing.com/report.php?r=8977&rp=7521
Top 10 pro men:
pl bib name city state team time time back
1 19 Geritt Beytagh Fletcher NC Morwood 7:24.47
2 27 Bert Boyce Boston MA 7:34.47 10.00
3 2 Ben Moody Thornton NH Rhino Bike Works 7:47.66 23.19
4 7 Jason Memmelaar Chester NY Scott Diablo 7:50.43 25.96
5 18 Gavin Vaughan Sharon VT Snowfire Racing 7:51.96 27.49
6 207 Nicolas Dignard 7:55.95 31.48
7 26 Kyle Hickey Burlington VT Old Spokes Home 7:57.49 33.02
8 1 Jeff Thornton Pembroke NH Highland 8:02.71 38.24
9 25 Chris Scannell Burlington VT 8:03.30 38.83
10 6 Chris Higgerson Deansboro NY Morewood Michelin TL 8:04.10 39.63
Pro women:
Class : Pro Women
Time
Pl Bib Name City St Team Back
========================================================================================
1 31 Dawn Bourque Campton NH Rhino Bike Works 9:03.13
2 32 Karen Eagan Lowell MA Vitamin Water 9:21.58 18.45
3 35 Allie Burch Patterson NY Velo Bella 9:31.20 28.07
4 36 Marie-Eve Marcotte QC Primary/Devina 9:37.05 33.92
5 33 Candace Ellicott Ottawa ON 10:01.30 58.17
6 34 Alicia Hamilton Bethel CT Team Darwin 10:16.93 1:13.80
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I'd love to hear what proof of this you have.
Just because You or Your teammates got beat does not mean someone cut the course, perhaps they were just faster on this day.
Way to go Bert, and please accept our apologies for any confusion. Fast time dude!
Welcome to the East Coast and I bet we see you on a few more podiums in the North East in the near future.
Thanks again for all that raced and supported us. It seems like many racers really liked this course. We may switch courses year to year as we have many awesome trails. I really want to have a race down Slickrock trail, but the 1 minute pedal on the flats would suck. Maybe just start from the top of Slickrock? The course would be shorter than the usual Whiteface dh course but still 5 minutes per race run.
DHM
Welcome to the East Coast and I bet we see you on a few more podiums in the North East in the near future.
Thanks again for all that raced and supported us. It seems like many racers really liked this course. We may switch courses year to year as we have many awesome trails. I really want to have a race down Slickrock trail, but the 1 minute pedal on the flats would suck. Maybe just start from the top of Slickrock? The course would be shorter than the usual Whiteface dh course but still 5 minutes per race run.
DHM
Thanks DH Mike for the sweet course, professional timing, and all the course marshals (I heard lots of whistles as I went down the course!). This was the funnest race in the East Coast Series that I've done yet, my practice runs were a blast, and though my race run wasn't so smooth I still had a blast. I can't wait to come back up and check out the rest of your trail network and to do more cliff diving! Your area offers some great camping, riding and other fun dirtbag activities for the downhill crowd, so I hope you keep the races coming!
Also, good to meet you DHMike!
Alicia
Also, good to meet you DHMike!
Alicia
Back in the day of courses barely taped and foggy mountain sides with cattle on them, if you got down with a better time, it wasn't called cutting the course...it was called a win because you found the fastest way down. Everybody was sneaky and cutting the course was considered the ninja line. Around here we were like NASCAR used to be...who ever was the craftiest...wins! 
hahaha... I remember a few years back there was a runner who skipped the middle 20 some odd miles of a marathon. I can't clarify if he actually cut under tape though.
If anyone wants to order pictures from the race there are a couple of hundred here:
http://www.whitefacephotos.com/gallery.php?gid=218
http://www.whitefacephotos.com/gallery.php?gid=218
Does any one else find it amazing that Bret finished 10 seconds behind Geritt? With Geritt acknologing he had a clean run at Whiteface. A week earlier he finished 30 seconds behind Geritt on a 2 and a half minute course at Diablo and raced the US Open this year in Amateur and finished 10Th 18 seconds behind Geritt. And has not raced a USA Cycling DH race since 2006 according to USA Cyclings website. Just wondering?
I really don't care, as I personally got smoked by Geritt and mine is the only time that matters at all to me. Don't really care if Boyce's time is legit or not, it doesn't change the fact that I went too slow.
But just to turn your logic on it's head a bit, I finished 6 seconds behind Geritt earlier this year at Diablo but he beat me by 50 seconds at Whiteface. it's a meaningless comparison especially when we are talking about an 8 minute track made up of extremely varied terrain (it's essentially 4 or 5 different kinds of courses all linked together). Every year the 5k produces some weird times but i highly doubt it's because of timing mistakes, course cutting, or otherwise.
Great first post by the way.
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Bert just moved here from out west. He has a very impressive racing record. I would just say keep your eyes on this guy. Very fast.
Excellent race run Bert!
DHM