OK next weekend I get a Bobcat to dig up 1 and 1/2 acres of irrigated dirt I pay the mortgage on. Once my dream park is built I have a feeling I will discover many new friends. I hate to be the grumpy old man scaring kids away, and I know a waiver won't hold up in court. I'm just looking for advice from anyone in the same boat.
Who has DJ's on their property?
- Thread starter Lux Interior
- Start date
i dig dj's in my backyard. But i live out in the sticks and i'm the only one who rides em. its the way to go!
where you at?
where you at?
Oregon, I think you're right about just hitting them yourself. That good buddy might think differently if he's got a hospital bill and no insurance. I just need to be picky. It's funny no one else is chiming in on this thread. Goes to show how many pirate jump builders their are. Can't say I was any different, I just got sick of them getting torn down.
its really discouraging to put alot of work into some trails and then come back to the spot to ride and find them gone/mowed down/ or wrecked by little kids.
I wish i had more people to ride my trails w/ me. and dig. I never really figure that whoever i let ride my trails would come after me if they got hurt. Its like, look you rode em, and you got hurt. I rode em and i didnt. Its not my fault. If your gonna be a bitch and try to get me to pay for your bills you can go **** yourself.
In those situations i think its the parents looking for a scapegoat really.
and btw, depending where in oregon your at, i'd be down to come ride some trails
I wish i had more people to ride my trails w/ me. and dig. I never really figure that whoever i let ride my trails would come after me if they got hurt. Its like, look you rode em, and you got hurt. I rode em and i didnt. Its not my fault. If your gonna be a bitch and try to get me to pay for your bills you can go **** yourself.
In those situations i think its the parents looking for a scapegoat really.
and btw, depending where in oregon your at, i'd be down to come ride some trails
I have heard that sometimes after someone is injured and they go to the hospital, that it is the health insurance companies that sue property owners to regain the money they paid out.
thats why its always JRA!! sue happy people suck!!
I'm moving to Canada.
no, the insurance companies force the victim to sue so they wot have to pay as much.Crazy Dan said:
Surely there must be some sort of waiver that'll hold up? Or maybe can you insure yourself if you see what I mean? In the UK we used to have to get 3rd party liability insurance for jumps which would get public use. Used to cost about 100 pounds a year. If it's the same sort of deal in the US it might be worth the $s just for peace of mind and no restrictions on friends. You could get your 'new friends' to contribute to the cost...
Insurance in the US would be way more than 100 pounds a year. Try $1000 +++ in the states. My recomendation...no kids. The parents of a 17 year old are much more likely to sue than the injured 18 year old. Also, always keep "no trespassing" signs up. If someone is trespassing you're liability is significantly reduced.
It's private property and a waiver will hold up in court. Have a lawyer write it up and be sure it includes something to the tune of "owner will not be responsible in any, way, shape or form for any injury(s), death or equipment failure while riding on property etc., etc. My policy is to only let close friends ride your private trails though. It's sucks to be an a-hole, but these days people make it so you have too! And if someone does wreck and go to the hospital be sure the jump they wrecked on is perfect before they come back and take pics and try to sue for gross negligence.
Hucknificent said:
I hate to say it, but a waiver usually doesn't hold up in court. A plantiff's lawyer will claim that there was negligence on the owner's part. For example, the jumps were built wrong, the jumps were too big for a "novice," etc. A perfect example would be Snow Summit. The rider who has filed the lawsuit signed a waiver, however, his lawyer is claiming that Team Big Bear was negligent, because the course marker was in a dangerous spot.
We live in a very litgious society, where most people don't want to take responsibility for their actions--fu#cked up, I agree.
Bottom-line, a waiver won't save your a$$ if someone gets hurt on your property...a lawyer will find some way to pass the blame on to you. I use to see it happen a lot when I raced BMX, people would sue the track, and it would be forced to close its doors...
Yeah I'm only letting close friends out there but still I know I'm rolling the dice. Oh the price of being a grown up. Well thanks for the input. It just sucks when you work so hard for something to know that you could lose it because you trusted the wrong person. But most Mt. bikers are good people.
BTW Dirt Fiend I'm in Bend, and now the only trails I ride are the 100ft leading up to a jump and the 50 ft after, jk but we do have plenty of fun stuff here legal and illegal
BTW Dirt Fiend I'm in Bend, and now the only trails I ride are the 100ft leading up to a jump and the 50 ft after, jk but we do have plenty of fun stuff here legal and illegal
If you limit who rides there you should be okay. The problem would be if some kid got hurt...you know his parents would freak out.Lux Interior said:
We lost one of our jump spots, because some stupid a$$ kid got hurt on his little 50 mini bike and his parents decided to make a big deal out of the situation...how crappy is that? The kid was breaking the law and his parents still tried to sue the land owner...
I bet you're right. No minors allowed, I'm also thinking I will make everything pretty big, like 20 ft and up doubles. I don't want a place where people learn to hit jumps. I want experienced riders perfecting trix. I'm thinking I might have a big scary step up or something right in front and if you don't feel you are capable of hitting it, you don't belong. Of course this could also be a really, REALLY BAD idea. Mostly I'll just hand pick who comes over, and lock it up when I'm not there.
Would "ride at your own risk" signs hold up in court? If the jumps were perfectly safe (clearing them), the rider should be held responsible. If it was too big, it was the riders fault that he got hurt because he went for it regardless of skill level. Does this not work in court?
You can't trust juries (people are stupid)! Look at cases like when a burglur sues (and wins) because the building wasn't safe to rob.
You can't trust juries (people are stupid)! Look at cases like when a burglur sues (and wins) because the building wasn't safe to rob.
make the stepup over a foam pit so if the gap is too big at least they land in foam...... 
Ive got 5 acres i'd love to build on for everyone to come ride on but i dont want that same chance of someones insurance coming after me. Also i wouldnt ever want a place where unknown people show up to ride that ive never met.
Ive got 5 acres i'd love to build on for everyone to come ride on but i dont want that same chance of someones insurance coming after me. Also i wouldnt ever want a place where unknown people show up to ride that ive never met.
OMG, why did I read this thread. I just started building on my property a month ago, and so far, no one else has ridden it. Now I am skeered to let anyone come out. I will definitely put up signs and probably a waiver.
Oh, and make people pay money to ride there! Along with a waiver, this shows that the person was intent on riding there and was willing to pay for it. Just another weapon in your arsenal.
Oh, and make people pay money to ride there! Along with a waiver, this shows that the person was intent on riding there and was willing to pay for it. Just another weapon in your arsenal.
No, those signs probably wouldn't do too much good...mtnbrider said:
Hmmmmmmmm........That's funny.....I've never seen a track get closed cause of this! That Sucks! Where do you live? Not to mention all the skateparks that you must sign this same waiver in and they don't ever have a problem w/ waivers in court. In fact I think their waivers even say not to ride above your skill level.blt2ride said:
examples
http://www.xgamesskatepark.com/waivers/DALLASwaiver.PDF.pdf
http://www.xgamesskatepark.com/waivers/over18_TX.pdf
Also check your state laws. It may considered a high risk sport. This is why so many skate parks and dirt jump areas across a lot of states don't require waivers. but check the subsections for private areas and/or property.
Still more trouble than I think it's worth unless ur going 2 charge. I think u got it right to just go by invite only and lock it when you're not there. And put no tresspassing signs up too!
I think its more important for the jumps to be fun than gigantic. But most of the time fun is gigantic.....
A friend of mine who has secret trails in the hills ( yakima, WA) built a 'vaga' pack to warm up with. Its a tabletop, into a series of 12-18' doubles. Everything is steep and deep.
His other packs are bigger, 15-20' with a 30' double too. Theyre alot of fun, and no one really goes out there except us. Mainly cause we dont tell people about em and they are really hidden.
I think as long as you keep them quiet, and dont bring out people that arent confident on real dirtjumps, they should be ok. Most people who are really into riding understand that if they ride and get hurt, its not the jumps fault.
A friend of mine who has secret trails in the hills ( yakima, WA) built a 'vaga' pack to warm up with. Its a tabletop, into a series of 12-18' doubles. Everything is steep and deep.
His other packs are bigger, 15-20' with a 30' double too. Theyre alot of fun, and no one really goes out there except us. Mainly cause we dont tell people about em and they are really hidden.
I think as long as you keep them quiet, and dont bring out people that arent confident on real dirtjumps, they should be ok. Most people who are really into riding understand that if they ride and get hurt, its not the jumps fault.
Yup, you guys are confirming my thought that all real riders have "an understanding". You gotta pay to play. If you come up short you have no one to blame but yourself.
And the jumps won't all be massive, I definately want some trick jumps in a series. To get speed most everything will have to be accessed by a roll-in off the barn so that will be easy to lock up. I am getting so excited, I'm stock piling diesel so I can work all Sat and Sun.
And the jumps won't all be massive, I definately want some trick jumps in a series. To get speed most everything will have to be accessed by a roll-in off the barn so that will be easy to lock up. I am getting so excited, I'm stock piling diesel so I can work all Sat and Sun.
YOu make a landing and drop off the roof or if you have a super-monster, you won't need a landing.
I think I killed it, no one has said anthing yet.
well the terrain is flat farm land so I needed a roll -in to build speed. So I will start at the top of a 12' high flat roofed barn and build a nice sturdy ramp coming off of it, this will lead to a series of dj's......I don't do flat landings any more...I'm older and wiser now
I'll chime in b/c some of you are putting trust where it doesnt belong.Hucknificent said:
you'll be amaized how quick a friend will be to sue you. I had my BEST friend of 14+ years take me to court for $5,000 and he didnt blink an eye. He wouldnt work out a payment plan that was reasonable, and I had to sell my new car to pay it. so with new vehicle depreciation, I lost about $12K to my "best friend." If they need money, friendship means nothing.
No minors!!!!! Have everyone sign a waiver and keep it on file. put in it that they helped build all the jumps and inspected them to their satisfaction. have "ride at your own risk" signs. The best thing is to hand them a shovel when they get there and tell them to fix/inspect everything. waivers do help because they scare people into thinking that they can't sue, so they often dont try. It can also make ppl think twice about riding.
In California when you charge someone money to engage in an activity on private land it INCREASES the landowners liability.motomike said:
You would need a serious waiver, with a clause that says that the person suing you would be responsible for your legal fees should they lose the lawsuit. You will likely also have to countersue them. The thing that kills most people is the legal fees to defend themselves. Whether you win or lose you still have to pay your lawyer. Most waivers will hold up in court, unless there was gross negligence (like sticking a piece of rebar next to a jump as a course marker) or the waiver wasn't legal to begin with.
Basically it sucks. You have to have no one over to ride or accept that you are taking a risk. Your best bet is to talk to a lawyer before you invite people over to ride.
I hear ya. I've got a whole Freeride Park in my backyard.
NC has laws to protect land owners as long as you don't charge to ride. <-Motomike, be sure you pick up on this part
I use a liability waiver. Got signs saying no treaspassing, members only, ride at your own risk. And, I lease, not own, the land.
I require kids have written permission from a parent and strongly advice the parents to come out with their kids.
Got no insurance. Everything I own is in my wife and kids name. All they could get from me is a couple old bikes. Don't think there are any lawyers who would take the case.
It helps to play the old hard ass bastard at times. Kinda keeps out the riff raff.
NC has laws to protect land owners as long as you don't charge to ride. <-Motomike, be sure you pick up on this part
I use a liability waiver. Got signs saying no treaspassing, members only, ride at your own risk. And, I lease, not own, the land.
I require kids have written permission from a parent and strongly advice the parents to come out with their kids.
Got no insurance. Everything I own is in my wife and kids name. All they could get from me is a couple old bikes. Don't think there are any lawyers who would take the case.
It helps to play the old hard ass bastard at times. Kinda keeps out the riff raff.
I can do that.
Lux
I have one jump that is a ramped roll in. It's the hardest one to get speed from. It's a 50' climbing ramp up with a banked turn and sloped to a really steep ramp down, dropping about 12'.
I think a long gently sloped run in is better. The best would be coming off the slope of a berm or a series of berms where you can really fly into it.
I have one jump that is a ramped roll in. It's the hardest one to get speed from. It's a 50' climbing ramp up with a banked turn and sloped to a really steep ramp down, dropping about 12'.
I think a long gently sloped run in is better. The best would be coming off the slope of a berm or a series of berms where you can really fly into it.
I live in Los Angeles County, which is the most litigious State in the Country. When I was younger, and raced BMX, we had three BMX tracks close its doors, because of lawsuits. Additionally, let's not forget Big Bear...Hucknificent said:
TM1, yeah it will be experimental, I'm thinking 20' long with a 12' over all drop.
Wow, so much misinformation. Search for "liability" on IMBA's website and you'll see what I mean.
Oregon should have what's called a recreational use statute that protects private landowners from getting sued. Check yours out and drop me a line if you need help understanding it.
BTW post signs and have a waiver. Even if waiver alone won't prevent lawsuit it'll help.
Oregon should have what's called a recreational use statute that protects private landowners from getting sued. Check yours out and drop me a line if you need help understanding it.
BTW post signs and have a waiver. Even if waiver alone won't prevent lawsuit it'll help.
What's really sad is that my backyard jumps never even got finished they are still large mishapen dirt piles, other jumps were hitting good so I chose bike over shovel. yee haaa
Dude, just chill, build big jumps, and let only good riders ride. You can usually tell who is a good rider pretty easily; it's not the kid talking about how many tricks he can do. You can't live your whole life in fear.
I highly doubt there is more risk in having jumps than driving your car down the street. For example, you get rear ended at a stop light, and your car slides forward and smashes the next car forward. The driver in front of you sues you for whiplash. Anything can happen at any time. Live life while you can.
I highly doubt there is more risk in having jumps than driving your car down the street. For example, you get rear ended at a stop light, and your car slides forward and smashes the next car forward. The driver in front of you sues you for whiplash. Anything can happen at any time. Live life while you can.
I agree with everyone so far. I have jumps in my backyard too. People from the street often trespass to show their friends and kids the cool ramps. I post no trespassing signs asnd tell anyone off. There is only one other person that rides my jumps and he is one of the main builders so its all good. Just really control who rides them. Dont charge admission that will get you screwed over in liability. I have a waiver too but have never used it but Its good tyo get one drawn up.
build some djs in my yard this summer, im gunna rip down the forest behind my house and start building soon!