[DirtEveryDay]

Currently on a SWEET yeti AS-X that I love very much, but have been dabling in the DH world as of late and I think the AS-X may need to be bumped down to trail use, or worse...sold(sniff, sniff).
So, anyway, I'll never be able to afford the 303(if it ever gets declared "finished" and put into production!), and not sure I could pummel something so beautiful with my urban antics. But the Weapon-X looks promising. Heavy duty, nice design, fox DHX, and juuust ugly enough to smash against some concrete!
Anyone also know what that thing weighs?

 

[Jmight..]

Why not a Foes? Go-Ride has a sale on them right now, Id get a fly if I had a job..lol

 

[alloutproductio]

the weapon's a dope frame,
if you dont mind the hefty weight...
customer service is topnotch -- herb'll
definately take care of you!

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Why not a Foes? Go-Ride has a sale on them right now, Id get a fly if I had a job..lol

If I was considering that, I would just stick with my beloved AS-X. Yeah, I would be able to gain a slightly slacker headtube angle, lower BB height, etc, but I'm not trading in my life of fun to be a racer boy!
I DEFINATELY don't go HUGE, and tend to stay on the smaller side of big stuff, but I DO occsionally feel the need to throw down and have actually been avoiding the temptation since my AS-X is not a huck bike. Backing down is not helping my confidence any, nor is it advancing any skills. I've already got one bike that I'm PRETTY SURE will handle what I can put out, but Id much rather KNOW it will!
That, and the single-pivot thing really messes with me. Not so much in the general riding/go fast stuff, but VERY noticeable on urban. Feels like the damn thing folds in half when I need to bunny it. Just weird.
I had considered a Banshee Scream, but there's too many around here for one, and Bender rides one. That's all I'm gonna say. I want to try something new. But I definately do need a freeride bike first, and a DH bike second. I'll race for fun, but I'll ride to live. Wow..that's a really, really bad line....

 

[mattover]

Anyone also know what that thing weighs?

I do indeed. I've been emailing Vivian over there to get some details. I'm thinking of buying one and having it shipped to Australia...

You're looking at 16lbs, frame + shock. She's a reasonably heavy beast. I'm making the trade up from an SC Super 8, though, so there's little difference to me.

matt o

 

[DirtEveryDay]

I actually just talked to the Man in charge over there(Herb) and he says the frame, headset, shock weigh in right at about 14 pounds. That ain't sh*t really. I can make up the 4 pound difference between it and my Yeti by going tubeless, even! Only thing I'm really concerned about is the headtube angle and the weelbase. My Yeti is very nimble and I like it, but it also catches me off guard once in awjhile and keeps my attention where it belongs, I guess!
Only thing Herb was unsure of is it's potential for urban assaults. But I'm not too worried, my bro's running a 51 pound Banshee Scream and it not only rides light, he can bunny hop it(I can provide pics!) 3' cleanly, or lay on the bash a little and ride out 3 and half foot ledges. Pretty funny to watch really, it's a big bike!

 

[mattover]

Nice one. I'm happy with 16lbs, but 14's even better.

I doubt you'll drop 2lbs per wheel by going to tubeless, though. The latex compound used to seal the rim and tyre bead does actually does weigh something, too.

And your brother's obviously got some pretty good technique; I thought my 46lb Super8 was fairly heavy, but 51lbs is way up there!

matt o

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Nice one. I'm happy with 16lbs, but 14's even better.

I doubt you'll drop 2lbs per wheel by going to tubeless, though. The latex compound used to seal the rim and tyre bead does actually does weigh something, too.

And your brother's obviously got some pretty good technique; I thought my 46lb Super8 was fairly heavy, but 51lbs is way up there!

matt o

Uh, no..I've done it and weighed it. The 4mm thick "thornless" tubes that I like to run front and rear weighs nearly 3 pounds EACH. As much as a 2.7 Maxxis Mobster. So I lost the tubes, did the tubeless conversion, added 4-5 oz of Stan's and lost just over 4 pounds.

And YES, buy bro's got skill...but the 900lb spring has to being helping a LITTLE!
BOING!

 

[mattover]

Uh, no..I've done it and weighed it. The 4mm thick "thornless" tubes that I like to run front and rear weighs nearly 3 pounds EACH. As much as a 2.7 Maxxis Mobster. So I lost the tubes, did the tubeless conversion, added 4-5 oz of Stan's and lost just over 4 pounds.

Of course! I forgot about thornproof, oversized DH tubes. I was thinking about regular tubes. You'd drop 4lbs by making the switch, for sure.

I race DH on regular 2" XC tubes. I haven't had huge problems with flatting (damn, I shouldn't have said that... now I'm bound to flat on my next ride).

I did the numbers and the weight saving for me is so negligible that it's not worth messing around with the latex. In your case, there's definitely been a benefit, though!

matt o

 

[OGRipper]

Unless something has changed I think the Versus bro is being a little opimistic or needs a new scale. Everyone I've talked to says 16 pounds at least, maybe more depending on the shock. That includes the fine folks at Vision Cyclery in SF who happen to have one hanging in their window right now. Seems like a sweet frame but that's 3-5 pounds heavier than many equally capable options. It's a little cheaper than many frames so you're running into that old Bontrager conundrum:

Cheap, light, strong: pick two.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Run down there with a fish scale and weigh it for me!!! Seems like the frames weight is almost being kept a little "shadowed." Maybe so as to not discourage buyers? I honestly am not too worried about it. I ride a very well built small AS-X that sits at about 42 pounds, my bud rides an equally well equipped large banshee Scream that comes in at I think around 52-54 pounds. I can jump on his and not notice. On a dead lift, hell yeah! But when riding I think a frame's agility and it's pedaling efficency determine how heavy a bike feels. I have two things repeated about the Versus: very well built(heavy), and pedals incredibly well.
This is all EXCELLENT input! Keep it coming!

 

[SirChomps-a-Lot]

I would love to ride all of these bikes, seeing as how I loved my yeti dh-9 so much.

 

[SirChomps-a-Lot]

I forgot this one!

 

[OGRipper]

That rotec looks really sweet. I recall reading that lawill originally intended the rear end to be mated to a bb pivot.

Um fish scale? Maybe you can just call Vision and ask them to weigh it for you, they have a scale. It's Vision Cyclery on Stanyan Street in SF, let your fingers do the walking. But if the weight is truly not a concern, why bother right? You should be able to build one up at least as light as your friend's banshee.

You might also PM scrub, a monkey who's been riding Versus lately.

 

[mattover]

I got a quote of 16lbs for the Weapon X from Versus themselves, too. If the company is also giving out quotes of 14lbs, I'd be inclined to believe the heavier one.

 

[mattover]

I'm not so sure about that Storm design as the BB is actually on the swingarm.

Does the designer think the mountain biking community has forgotten about the URT (and more to the point, what a woefully silly idea it is for suspending a mountain bike)?

Your pedals move relative to the bars as the suspension compresses. Great if you never get off the seat and keep your feet away from the pedals... And as standing and pedalling is a pretty key part of riding a bike, I'd argue that the design is totally impractical...

The Rotec is sexy as hell, though.

matt o

 

[SirChomps-a-Lot]

I'm not so sure about that Storm design as the BB is actually on the swingarm.

Does the designer think the mountain biking community has forgotten about the URT (and more to the point, what a woefully silly idea it is for suspending a mountain bike)?
matt o

The storm is an OLD design. Old like yo mamma's mamma.

Nice rant, though.

 

[mattover]

The storm is an OLD design. Old like yo mamma's mamma.

Yup, Cambria has been selling them on closeout forever. I can't imagine why nobody has snapped them up.

Nice rant, though.

Cheers mate, glad you liked it. I've got plenty more tucked away where that came from!

matt o

 

[dexterq20]

Cheers mate, glad you liked it. I've got plenty more tucked away where that came from!

But... Australians aren't allowed to be angry! What gives?

 

[mattover]

But... Australians aren't allowed to be angry! What gives?

You've obviously never been around me when the beer has run out!

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Hmmm...I DO like that Rotec! Is it in production, or is still a "proto RL9?

I'm a little turned off at the idea of a 16+ pound frame, if not for the simple reason of "WHY?" There is no reason at all that a frame would need to weigh that much, especially one like the Weapon's design.

My biggest issues with my AS-X are the puny looking rear swingarm, and the annoying feeling of the bike folding in half when being jumped, bunny hopped, etc. That, and the AS-X looks a litlle out of place in the urban arena...

 

[mattover]

We only do it for the scars and stories.

Never were truer words said. Written. Posted. Ah dammit, you know what I mean.

 

[mattover]

Hmmm...I DO like that Rotec! Is it in production, or is still a "proto RL9?

Google. Around US$2400 frame only.

I'm a little turned off at the idea of a 16+ pound frame, if not for the simple reason of "WHY?" There is no reason at all that a frame would need to weigh that much, especially one like the Weapon's design.

As mentioned, it's the Bontrager Paradox: cheap, light, strong. Pick two.

Besides, I thought weight wasn't an issue? Read back to 51-54lbs Banshee Screams lofted into 3ft bunny-hops. Think of the weight you'll save by not running DH tubes. You'll make up for the extra mass right there.

Of course, you could always just buy a solid hardtail frame, which will be a lot more fun to ride in the street. DH rigs are, well, DH rigs.

matt o

 

[tacobelldhr]

turnerdhr or six pack!

 

[OGRipper]

Yeah Matt O is on it, I've heard they wanted a bombproof bike that worked well and wasn't too pricey, so it ended up being heavier because something had to give in order for them to reach the price target. Not sure where or if they cut corners to get the price down.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Yeah Matt O is on it, I've heard they wanted a bombproof bike that worked well and wasn't too pricey, so it ended up being heavier because something had to give in order for them to reach the price target. Not sure where or if they cut corners to get the price down.

That pretty much answered the next gripe I was going to have: Why can the Rotec cost $1000 more than the Versus when they are essentialy the same bike, and TECHNICALLY, you probably even get more aluminum for your money with the Versus! Ha!

I don't know why 16 pounds would bother me when 14 didn't. Yeah, it's only two more pounds, but now it's almost DOUBLE what my Yeti frame weighs! Besides...I'M not the one who can loft a bike 3 feet in the air at will! That bastard...

Maybe it will be like 15 pounds, then I can whine about weight juuuust enough and still want it. I'm going to track down Scrub and see what he has to say. I'm a little paranoid about trying "new" bikes. I remember when EVERYONE had to have an Evil Imperial, they all claimed that once you ride one, you'll never ride anything else. Sh!t, I was on it for about 3 days before i decided that I pretty much HATED that bike! I couldn't get rid of it fast enough! I really hope the Versus isn't the same situation: some love it, the rest hate it.
Oh, and it's NOT a downhill bike, it is an "ultra burly freeride machine." That's what I was told by Herb at versus. In fact, he didn't really even recomend it for DH due to it's apparently steep geometry. So I would be in about the same boat as my AS-X, but atleast it's burlier! It's also heavier..so I should go downhill faster...right?

 

[alloutproductio]

the weapon has a 64 - 66 degree headangle...
super slack......

 

[Cwilly006]

That pretty much answered the next gripe I was going to have: Why can the Rotec cost $1000 more than the Versus when they are essentialy the same bike, and TECHNICALLY, you probably even get more aluminum for your money with the Versus! Ha!

No look at where the upper shock mount is on the versus while the one on the Rotec is attached to part of the swingarm so they will be deffirents

 

[foesjunky]

I rode the rotec @ Deer Valley, It gets my vote!! Solid and pedals well, Sully said they are in production.

 

[mattover]

the weapon has a 64 - 66 degree headangle...
super slack......

Exactly. Kinda mixed messages. Herb says freeride, the specs on paper say DH to me. I'm picking up a flat crown for my 888s to go with the frame in order to get the headangle a little steeper.

matt o

 

[OGRipper]

Exactly. Kinda mixed messages. Herb says freeride, the specs on paper say DH to me. I'm picking up a flat crown for my 888s to go with the frame in order to get the headangle a little steeper.

matt o

I hate to say it but it really depends on your definition of "freeride." I know some people who prefer steeper angles on their DH bikes. Freeride could be tight techy stuff, where steeper angles make sense, or huge drops and other bigness where the slackness could save your ass. I think you're on track by just looking at the numbers and deciding for yourself if the specs seem to fit your desires.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

No look at where the upper shock mount is on the versus while the one on the Rotec is attached to part of the swingarm so they will be deffirents

Dude..you took that a LITTLE too literally! The are both aluminum. They both have suspension. They are both BIKES. It's just intersting how easily another $1000 or more can be tacked onto a frame for engineering, name, metals used, etc.

I haven't checked the site again yet, but I did think that the HA was like 66-68 degrees, which still isn't too steep to DH... I was also thinking he didn't suggest it for DH because it is heavy, but when I asked him how responsive, predictable, and "light" it was, he said all were outstanding and that he credited it's "lightness" and agility to it's pedaling efficiency.
This can be solved simply enough: I need to ride one. That's all there is too it!

 

[OGRipper]

Dude..you took that a LITTLE too literally! The are both aluminum. They both have suspension. They are both BIKES. It's just intersting how easily another $1000 or more can be tacked onto a frame for engineering, name, metals used, etc.

Um, wow. You're talking to a group of monkies who dwell on the details.
Sure they are more similar than say the Rotec and a road bike...but in our geeky world they are quite different.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

I hate to say it but it really depends on your definition of "freeride." I know some people who prefer steeper angles on their DH bikes. Freeride could be tight techy stuff, where steeper angles make sense, or huge drops and other bigness where the slackness could save your ass. I think you're on track by just looking at the numbers and deciding for yourself if the specs seem to fit your desires.

Yep. That's also where I am running into a TON of issues. I only want ONE bike. But I do urban(but it's aggressive, we jump sh!t, ride skinnies, drops, etc, not trials style), we have north shore style trails, big dumb hucks, DJs, single track and now a little DH. I'm thinking a 66-68 is a decent angle for me, especially if I can keep the headtube height down a little(drop crowns on an 888)

Hey...anyone see my attraction to the Versus???

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Um, wow. You're talking to a group of monkies who dwell on the details.
Sure they are more similar than say the Rotec and a road bike...but in our geeky world they are quite different.

Yes..I know...but that was not the point I was trying to make at the time. I was only pointing out the $1000 difference for two hunks of metal.

 

[F.O.G]

That pretty much answered the next gripe I was going to have: Why can the Rotec cost $1000 more than the Versus when they are essentialy the same bike, and TECHNICALLY, you probably even get more aluminum for your money with the Versus! Ha!

I don't know why 16 pounds would bother me when 14 didn't. Yeah, it's only two more pounds, but now it's almost DOUBLE what my Yeti frame weighs! Besides...I'M not the one who can loft a bike 3 feet in the air at will! That bastard...

Maybe it will be like 15 pounds, then I can whine about weight juuuust enough and still want it. I'm going to track down Scrub and see what he has to say. I'm a little paranoid about trying "new" bikes. I remember when EVERYONE had to have an Evil Imperial, they all claimed that once you ride one, you'll never ride anything else. Sh!t, I was on it for about 3 days before i decided that I pretty much HATED that bike! I couldn't get rid of it fast enough! I really hope the Versus isn't the same situation: some love it, the rest hate it.
Oh, and it's NOT a downhill bike, it is an "ultra burly freeride machine." That's what I was told by Herb at versus. In fact, he didn't really even recomend it for DH due to it's apparently steep geometry. So I would be in about the same boat as my AS-X, but atleast it's burlier! It's also heavier..so I should go downhill faster...right?

Thrillseeka,
I've ridden the Verus that Scrub rides and it rides a lot different than any Lawwill ever built. Not that it was bad just different. The main reason that the bike is a grand cheaper is that it is sourced out of the far east and they ( versus) don't have to pay for engineering, development, and overhead also not to mention the royalties to Mert for the design and patent. It is a great bike for the money considering that it comes with the DHX 5.

 

[OGRipper]

Yep. That's also where I am running into a TON of issues. I only want ONE bike. But I do urban(but it's aggressive, we jump sh!t, ride skinnies, drops, etc, not trials style), we have north shore style trails, big dumb hucks, DJs, single track and now a little DH. I'm thinking a 66-68 is a decent angle for me, especially if I can keep the headtube height down a little(drop crowns on an 888)

Dude get a vp-free. I love mine and I use for all that shizz. Not sure if you can run a double ring or full seatpost on the Versus, but those features make a big difference if you really want a versatile rig. Mine has a 66 head angle with 8" 888 and go-ride flat crowns. The frame is probably three or four pounds lighter but built to take whatever you throw at it...sorry for the derail but for all that stuff you might as well keep the ASX or getting something more versatile...

 

[mattover]

Dude get a vp-free. I love mine and I use for all that shizz. Not sure if you can run a double ring or full seatpost on the Versus, but those features make a big difference if you really want a versatile rig. Mine has a 66 head angle with 8" 888 and go-ride flat crowns. The frame is probably three or four pounds lighter but built to take whatever you throw at it...sorry for the derail but for all that stuff you might as well keep the ASX or getting something more versatile...

That goes to show you how much taste plays a role in all this, and how personal tastes vary so much based on size, weight, strength, riding style, commonly-ridden terrain, and myriad other factors.

I've had a Super 8 for many years and it has served me very well. Urban, DH, jumping, XC, cruising down to the pub. I've taken it out on long XC slogs with mates (35mile+ rides). Hell, I've even done a few laps at 24hr races on it to get a break from my XC rig. It has neither the ability to run a full-length seatpost or a double front ring, but has been a great bike.

Though I've got the ability to get a great upgrade deal on another Santa Cruz frame, I won't bother. The reason that I'm moving away from SC is that I don't like the way either the vp-free or V-10 rides. I've got a mate that's just sold his vp-free to buy a weapon, too.

I'm not bagging the vpfree or V-10. Just pointing out that there's no single "best bike" for everyone. One man's pleasure is another's poison.

matt o

 

[mattover]

The main reason that the bike is a grand cheaper is that it is sourced out of the far east and they ( versus) don't have to pay for engineering, development, and overhead also not to mention the royalties to Mert for the design and patent.

Indeed! And don't forget that Taiwanese welding robots are every bit as competent as American, Canadian, German, Swiss, British, Australian or any other welding robots. QC plays a role, but there's really much variation in quality at the upper end of the market.

matt o

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Heh... just got back from 5 hours at the skatepark! As if I needed one more arena to play in...geez. I learned two things tonight: I'm old, and I'm an old HACK! Not only was I the only rider with several hundred dollars in brakes...I was the only rider in there with ANY brakes!!!! WTF??!
I don't know what I'm gonna do. I think I'll just keep sticking the AS-X up for sale every now and then and continue riding it, maybe learn a skill in the meantime. But nothing I did tonight required a light bike. I'm sure it would help, but manueverability was the Devil's wine tonight. I'm just so damn paranoid about that little swing arm, especially since I've been really digging into hips, 360s, and such.

F.O.G.... Can you go into a little more detail about the how the Versus rides? I know ALL bikes are weird the first time on them... My gripe about the Yeti is that the single pivot feels funny on hops and take offs. Does it feel long, short, cramped cockpit?