[bluride]

why is it that women's race times are so much behind the mens? is it weight? strength?

but looking at race times of juvi or under 20's male racers - most girls and women still make much slower times compared to much younger and lighter boys - even when you take into account the times raced by women on the world circuit???

why should that be? - pls enlighten

 

[wysiwyg]

wasnt anne caro once interviewed as saying that she wanted to always post a time withing 20secs of the winning male, otherwise she was dissapointed.

 

[Percy]

Strength mainly, also men have less "I will die if I try this silly stunt" things going on in our heads.

Weight doesnt make much difference, or Tai Lee Muxlow would have been World Champ before now!

 

[Rik]

men have less things going on in our heads

damn straight, and when there is something going on in there, it's likely to be about the women racers.

 

[Percy]

damn straight, and when there is something going on in there, it's likely to be about the women racers.

Darn tootin!

 

[MMike]

Must be strength... It's the same with ski racing. Watch any moguls comp, and there's a huge diff between the men and the women.....

 

[lovebunny]

its because they have boobs and that makes wind resistance so they need more power to match the men

 

[MMike]

And while we're at it, how come they can't parallel park?

 

[dhkid]

i think its coz that men think less and have the words "i would hit that" hard wired into our brains.

 

[legend_killer]

 

[gonzostrike]

I think it's mainly that testosterone allows humans to ignore the very survival-oriented fear of getting injured while going fast down steep technical terrain.

men have more testosterone coursing through their brains, and it just gets amplified with endorphins and norepinephrines and all the other stuff that the risky stuff "buzz" brings.

in other words,

women seem to have a mental default that is more self-protective and less willing to take big risks.

if you combine that with the strength-to-weight deficit,

I think you're just about there on explaining the slower times in women's races. and as someone noted above, Anne-Caro in her prime race mindset and condition isn't really slower than most of the top men. so we might try asking her. HAH!

 

[Spitfired]

I bet she would rock the men's times.

 

[Velocity Girl]

I think it's that men (in general) are stronger than women more than anything else. It's that way in almost every sport...it's a lot harder to manhandle a bike the way the boys can

 

[Kntr]

She would have to pass a drug test first.

 

[jackalope]

Spit - we're talking about 'women', not simian, steroid laden troglodytes

I think Gonzo pretty much summed it up nicely...Although, I no idea ACC was as fast as the dudes...Good on her!

On a side note, I wonder how the Canadian 'sex change' chick is doing in DH thesedays? That was an interesting debate...However, I did read where 'it' really doesn't have much testosterone left over, after the jewels were sliced off...

 

[Kntr]

What a nice thought..... SLICE. That word will now haunt me. Thanks a lot.

 

[jackalope]

^^

Glad I could help

Although, I was seriously considering 'hacked', but 'sliced' sounded a little more medically correct...

 

[gonzostrike]

I think it's that men (in general) are stronger than women more than anything else. It's that way in almost every sport...it's a lot harder to manhandle a bike the way the boys can

a highly skilled rider -- someone at the top of UCI Elite DH -- isn't having to fight or manhandle a bike. heck, a hacker like me can ride techie DH without having to spend a lot of muscle energy or strength to keep 'er flowing. terrain reading and anticipation take you a LOT farther than sheer burly he-man strength.

a lot of jockeying the bike is finesse, timing of inputs, using the existing momentum to change the bike's position/attitude compared to you and compared to the trail.

although being strong and fit will sure help you pedal faster and for longer.

as to the transgendered Dumaresq,

she's still biologically a HE no matter what the plumbing changes and hormone therapy do. she still has all the necessary stuff that makes for the distinction between men and women. just a change in plumbing.

 

[Velocity Girl]

a highly skilled rider -- someone at the top of UCI Elite DH -- isn't having to fight or manhandle a bike. heck, a hacker like me can ride techie DH without having to spend a lot of muscle energy or strength to keep 'er flowing. terrain reading and anticipation take you a LOT farther than sheer burly he-man strength.

a lot of jockeying the bike is finesse, timing of inputs, using the existing momentum to change the bike's position/attitude compared to you and compared to the trail.

Agreed...I was using "manhandle" in more of a general sense. The art of finesse is something every rider should have because it wastes a heck of lot less energy. But If you're looking at riders of the same skill level, even the top men compared to the top women, the man will most likely have more power. For instance, you're sprinting out of a corner to get the necessary speed to hit the next jump....we don't have the same type of power in our legs a man can have so it might make it a little more difficult.

 

[gonzostrike]

cool. just clarifying how I saw it, glad we agree.

so what's Anne-Caro's secret? she's not big & burly, she'd not look tall or big next to Peaty, Rennie or Minaar.

 

[roberts]

I have often wondered this for non-strength sports like golf, surfing, etc.

I think it comes down to pure numbers. For example, 1000 boys start DH/surfing/golf to every 10 girls.

So when you get a pro male, he is the best rider of 1000. Whereas a pro female is only the best of 10.

If you had an equal # of participants with an equal history - i.e. 1000 boys and 1000 girls rode BMX as kids, then moved to DH, etc., the times would be much closer.

Plus, boys do more sports in general so they develop general sports skills. So even if a male doesn't BMX, he has probably played soccer, football, baseball, etc. whereas a female may not have played any sports.

As more and more females become athletic, the differences will narrow - see Michelle Wie.

 

[jackalope]

I think ACC is just one of those rare, gifted savants...No explanation, she was just born to crush DH courses IMO...

As for the muscle issue, I would say that while finesse and overall bike handling skills are certainly a huge part of going fast on a DH run, having a strong upper body and explosive leg power (i.e. sprinting) is extremely important as well...To wit, I lift weights pretty regularly and have found I rarely suffer from serious arm pump...Actually, I never suffer from serious arm pump now that I've started to race DH...I get a little burn, but it really doesn't affect me during a race run...Also, I do think it helps to have a solid amount of core strength to keep the bike tracking straight - especially on crazy rocky sections...All that said, I still get dusted by 120 lb fly weights - so who the hell knows :mumble:

 

[DRB]

Having to put up with us, has simply broken their will to go fast.

 

[Jeremy R]

....we don't have the same type of power in our legs a man can have so it might make it a little more difficult.

While that is true, I think the bigger difference is in the upper body.
If you look at other sports, lifting weights, etc...., women are closer to men in lower body strength than they are in upper body. And finesse or not, Dh riding uses a lot of upper body work.
I know as far trail riding and also road riding, I have met some super strong climbing girls who have strong legs and a good power to weight ratio.
But honestly, I don't care if you guys are slower. I give you major props for being out there. DH racing is such a brutal sport. At the race last weekend, I know some women who were having a super rough time out there, but still hanging in there, finishing, and smiling at the bottom.

 

[DH Diva]

Male and female body composition is really very different when you look at the numbers. There a huge difference in the muscle to fat ratio between male and female athletes. A healthy male athlete has like 6-14% body fat, whereas a healthy female athlete has like 14-20% body fat (These are generalized numbers for an "athlete," when you get sport specific the numbers change a little, but not too much). The more fat your body is composed of, the less muscle you have. That would explain why the jr men's category is in fact lighter and smaller, but they are still at an advantage when it comes to body composition.

 

[gonzostrike]

I have often wondered this for non-strength sports like golf, surfing, etc.

I think it comes down to pure numbers. For example, 1000 boys start DH/surfing/golf to every 10 girls.

So when you get a pro male, he is the best rider of 1000. Whereas a pro female is only the best of 10.

If you had an equal # of participants with an equal history - i.e. 1000 boys and 1000 girls rode BMX as kids, then moved to DH, etc., the times would be much closer.

Plus, boys do more sports in general so they develop general sports skills. So even if a male doesn't BMX, he has probably played soccer, football, baseball, etc. whereas a female may not have played any sports.

As more and more females become athletic, the differences will narrow - see Michelle Wie.

I hadn't thought of this, and dang it is very true. athleticism can be learned. balance exercises help a person feel more comfortable in "out of shape" situations. the more time you spend playing -- using your body athletically, including sports that require you to use a tool of some sort -- the more you get used to having your body in different attitudes while performing athletic tasks.

another thing that sometimes goes unmentioned is growing up in the mountains. if you grow up playing on steep terrain, it's a HUGE bonus and advantage over flatlanders who must overcome their unfamiliarity.

my alpine skiing tends toward steeper technical terrain, like my MTB riding. I find that each activity feeds the other.

 

[blt2ride]

She would have to pass a drug test first.

Haha...yeah, I'm pretty sure there are some banned substances in there.

 

[Jeremy R]

Haha...yeah, I'm pretty sure there are some banned substances in there.

Yeah, like a set of balls.

 

[DH Diva]

But honestly, I don't care if you guys are slower. I give you major props for being out there. DH racing is such a brutal sport. At the race last weekend, I know some women who were having a super rough time out there, but still hanging in there, finishing, and smiling at the bottom.

You're a smooth one!

(To be honest I was expecting way more boob jokes in this thread!)

 

[Transcend]

Compare nico to anne caro. It isn't strength. She is bigger then he ever was.

It is more mental and hormonal then anything.

 

[wydopen]

On a side note, I wonder how the Canadian 'sex change' chick is doing in DH thesedays? QUOTE]

i was quite dissapointed when i saw the she-man got almost the exact sametime as me at dv...

 

[Sgt Brown]

why is it that women's race times are so much behind the mens? is it weight? strength?

but looking at race times of juvi or under 20's male racers - most girls and women still make much slower times compared to much younger and lighter boys - even when you take into account the times raced by women on the world circuit???

why should that be? - pls enlighten

Wow, what a stupid question....

 

[Ciaran]

Wow, what a stupid question....

There are no stupid questions... only stupid replies.

Considering the fact that not all women are smaller then men, and that some DH racers are not big guys, and the hoopla surrounding Michelle Dumaresques (SP?) racing in the womens class I think it's a very valid question.

Belittling someone because you don't understand the reasoning behind their questions is pretty rude. Do you have a better question to contribute?

 

[Sgt Brown]

There are no stupid questions... only stupid replies.

Considering the fact that not all women are smaller then men, and that some DH racers are not big guys, and the hoopla surrounding Michelle Dumaresques (SP?) racing in the womens class I think it's a very valid question.

Belittling someone because you don't understand the reasoning behind their questions is pretty rude. Do you have a better question to contribute?

Nope nothing else to contribute.. You got me.. Sorry to get your panties in a bunch..

 

[Zutroy]

I female friend of mine talked about it. She thinks females have a higher self preservation drive, probably relating back to need to survive to protect children. I don't think it's just a strength issue, cause you watch Sabo or one of the other top women and they just have a completely different style to riding.

That being said women are more and more holding their own in motosports. So who knows.

 

[Ciaran]

Nope nothing else to contribute.. You got me.. Sorry to get your panties in a bunch..

No problem... if they get too bunched up I'm sure H8R will de-bunch them.

 

[jackalope]

Ya know, the real reason why men are faster, we're much less flexy...

 

[stiksandstones]

I female friend of mine talked about it. She thinks females have a higher self preservation drive, probably relating back to need to survive to protect children. I don't think it's just a strength issue, cause you watch Sabo or one of the other top women and they just have a completely different style to riding.

That being said women are more and more holding their own in motosports. So who knows.

The answer to the question is-

"they just are".

As for women rising up in motorsports, I do not agree, a couple 2-3 doesnt really mean 'more and more'...AND motorsports includes MX, and they will NEVER be able to compete on the same level as the men. Racing a car doesnt require the physical skill riding a bike/moto does.

Chicks are just slower, thats the way it is.

 

[binary visions]

I read some interesting stuff about sections of the brain devoted to spacial/object recognition/processing and how a guy has a lot more of the brain devoted to that kind of information than a woman. Relates to a lot of sports, too, mostly ball sports, but a lot of other sports that involve negotiating obsticals. This was also tied into why men tend to be better at/more interested in video games.

I think the "Why?" isn't as easy as pointing at one thing. There are definitly a lot of physical reasons, social reasons, and mental reasons why women tend to post slower times than men.

Interesting point, by the way, roberts. I wonder how much that contributes to it, if at all? Someone should do a thesis on this or a research project.

I don't see why this is a stupid question at all, incidentally. Sgt Brown, did you know what I mentioned above? Even if you did, can you realistically expect everyone to know it?

 

[Sgt Brown]

The answer to the question is-

"they just are".

As for women rising up in motorsports, I do not agree, a couple 2-3 doesnt really mean 'more and more'...AND motorsports includes MX, and they will NEVER be able to compete on the same level as the men. Racing a car doesnt require the physical skill riding a bike/moto does.

Chicks are just slower, thats the way it is.

You mean to tell me that driving a car in a circle or racing a drag bike in a strait line for 1/4 mile takes less skill than riding around a motocross or supercross track? Yep, sounds about right to me....