Originally posted by Changleen
As a European, it's nice to hear some Americans being honest about their veiws of Bush.. Generaly when a Euro talks to Americans then America can do no wrong and so on so forth..
Good stuff guys.
My general guidelines:
Abortion / Gay marriage etc: It has nothing to do with me if other people decide to have abortions or get married and it really won't affect me in any way. How could I possibly object? They're not hurting me or themselves.
Neo-Conservatives: Not a good thing. G.W. has caused America to be hated by the rest of the world more than any other Pres ever. He is such a hypocrite it is not hard to see why people feel this way. Criticising China and Russia over Democracy and Human rights whilst he runs Guantanomo? WTF? He is obviously destructive. And since when was it OK to practice revenge? Aren't we above that? Isn't that the point?
One thing I think the media (especially CNN + Fox ) pedal is that Bush's policies work and have a positive effect on things, whereas in reality all they cause is rage. This thing in Isreal is a great example. Also why does AMerica continue to support Isreal? If they just told Sharon to **** off then so many people in the world would be so much more behind you!
I dunno, I guess I just hope by some magic Clinton is re-elected pres. That would be brilliant. Why did you guys ever get rid of him?
Why are so many Euros idealogically cloned?
as a parent, i can tell you that having a child greatly affected my life. Perhaps that wasn't what you meant(?).
you don't lead by consensus
do you have a bodycount handy for camp x-ray? I'm a little unsure what your understanding of human rights violations among china, russia, gitmo are. Please explain, if willing.
still bangin' that drum, eh?
why not both?
but, with all the jews gone, we wouldn't have our media, wall street, florida tourism, & nation of islam. We need them.
clinton was a US president, not EU. To be sure, you may have him. Lock, stock & premoistened cigar.
I have no problem with "foreigners". Ich bin ein auslander, eh? My response was a tongue-in-cheek retort based on my observation that Europeans exhibit far more political solidarity, transcending international borders, than Americans. We debate everything and have a fairly even distribution of conservatives vs. liberals. On my fairly extensive travels in Europe over several months, I came across many more liberal types than did I conservatives. In fact, even your conservatives are liberal by our standards. Your statement that "we're just able to think for ourselves" seems to contradict my observations, however. Does this clarify my viewpoint?Originally posted by Changleen
We're not - we're just able to think for ourselves and realise foreigners are people too, more than some people apparantly...
so, your high minded opinions just happen to be the same ones i see on Deutche Welle, or read in Agence France Presse or the beeb?Originally posted by Changleen
We're not - we're just able to think for ourselves and realise foreigners are people too, more than some people apparantly...
'you' meaning the US President or me?
Human rights isn't about body count. It's about basic freedoms. Like the right to a lawyer, like not being held for 2 years, in some cases in solitary confinement, with zero evidence against you. SO far everyone released from Guantanomo has had absolutely no connection with the Taliban, Al Quaida or any form of terrorism.
Well, I think it's quite an important one....
Because they're mutually exclusive in anything other than the extremly short term?
Um, denouncing Isreal's position and illegal killings wouldn't make your Jews all suddenly vanish...
Why do you percieve my ideas as 'high minded'? I just think they're logical. And yes, they probably do happen to be similar in some ways to the ones you may read in the more reasonable European press. That's probably because we largly experience things from the same veiwpoint, and with a high degree of shared culture and recent experience. We also are more exposed to the press and opinions of other countries, and are generally more sympathetic to them.
agreed.
the US, for we didn't become & maintain our status as the global uberpower by sucking on the teet of the UN (although we certainly can be accused of it).
sorry, i coudn't hear you over the roar of laughter. Could you repeat?
with all the drivel you've spewed on this post alone, you're now officially on my fulloshiite list
so, if we no longer said "we got your back" & denounced israel's right to defend themselves, things would be more peaceful? that's a bit unrealistic & polyanna, no?
If that happened, then kiss the lil' 3rd world muslim fiefdoms that border on Israel good bye cuz the Jews have the nukes... It's the US that keeps the Israelies in check (prolly not for their own good either)..
Ah, I thought that Democracy meant you DID lead by consensus..Silly me.
But you should have, and would still be the superpower. And more people would respect you.
Yes, I read that too, and wondered a)why you locked up at least two 13 year olds for two years, massive threats to the US they must have been eh? and b) how much information he provided in the war on terror. Missing the point a little?
Wow, Al Quaeda do that? Now that is NEWS! (Sarcasm if you didn't notice) but for every one of your news stroies there are others:
Wow, what a mature response! Good job you're so open minded to other peoples opinions!
Actually no. I think that would help a hell of a lot. Although you would not need to denounce their right to defend themselves. Maybe you should suggest to both partys that retaliation never works, violence causes more violence, and that they're both humans after all. Oh and have a look at this: Link The US is paying for most of the carnage! Great!
the headline reads: "Freed Afghans condemn Cuba prison", not "Dead Afghans Terrorists sent home in Pigskins", which is what i would have preferred. They didn't claim to have been buggered, which is surely what would have happened if they were in a US holding facility. Cry me a frappin river.
so who should i believe? My gov't who has my interest in mind, or terrorists who want to kill my fellow citizens?
damn right he said that. When you roll over, you better give a strong stance when you get out. What's he going to say? He got out b/c he gave the US all the terrorist intelligence he knew?
that's a damn shame.
echoes the previous.
I don't beleive either won.....how close can it be?
Despite the fact that they weren't terrorists? Jeeze. Lucky they weren't buggered? WTF? You sound worse than them.
Well, given that that your government lied about WMD, lied about the budget, lies about the environment and regularly bends peoples words to suit it's own ends, I'd be erring on the side of not believing them right away, no questions asked, don't you think? And I don't think the gov exactly has your interests in mind, I think it's more their own asses they're watching out for.
not when the UN is toothless, all bluster no action, & too scared to follow through on their resolutions
but, these "more people" do not have our interest in mind. It sure would be nice if we could all have a coke & a smile, but i'm not waiting on it (see UN statement above). When terrorists are plotting & scheming (see: every terrorism related news article since pre-lockerbie), time is of the essence.
what can i say? they had fake IDs? Didn't realize we had a combat policy of age discrimination in a warzone. Do you think that al-queda has a min age standard for jihad? If so, how much older than able to steady a rifle & pull, or walk w/ a backpack fullo semtex?
yes, there's also the 911 coverup stories as well. Wheat from the chaff dear lad.
there's no such thing as wartime diplomacy.
out of date, eh? Do you do duck & cover exercises preparing for pending doom, or go about your daily routine as normal? They were declared illegal combatants b/c they fit the definition. I don't see what's debatable about that. You may not like the def. Fine. Ummm, what every int'l law was totally flouted? My gov't has been rather successful in keeping this from my version of Internet. Since when does the US have to consult an international attorney in time of war? (hint: "time of war")
when your "opinions" are laughable, unfounded, & otherwise defenseless, i have no apologies. Sorry.
mitfah.org, "Your Key to Palestine"? this article alone has the phrase "occupied territories" 9 times. They use the name Israel only when it's convenient to make this "case" against the US. but go to their maps link, where they title some maps of israel with the phrase "zionist colonies in palestine", or once again invoking "Israeli occupation". Yeah, they're on balance.
i expect more from you.
well, if this isn't the most inconveniently damning evidence that you read what you want, i don't know what is.
i thought you liked clinton? i'm really confused as to your position du leur
on the topic of nat'l security, it's as good as it gets. I"ll concede they are nothing more than politicians (read: damn liars) on all other non-mortal issues (If we're dead, we can't [re]elect them)
this little spit-for-distance is only in the context of nat'l security, which has been long couched in terms of us v them, and as such, i know which team i'm on.
Democracy when it suits you eh? Brilliant!
That's all you have in mind isn't it? The American interest, nothing else. What about the rest of the world? It seems increasingly apparant that you don't give a
about anyone else. Why should we give a crap about you? That is so playground. Why don't you grow up and realise that unless the world can exist in peace then everyone is in a world of crap? It's pretty simple really!Again, THEY WERE NOT TERRORISTS! The US locked them up for 2 years because of where they were at the time. That's what I have a problem with.
Actually there is. It starts with the Geneva convention.
That's because the US made it up there and then! Again, that's the problem!
OK,
So? Does that make it out and out wrong? These people happen to have a different point of veiw to you and me. It doesn't mean we should discount what they're saying out of hand because of it! Actually the whole area was Palestine before the end of WWII at which point the US and UN decided to call bunch of it Isreal under pressure from the Jewish lobby.
