[RhinofromWA]

Why?

*kind of a rant/observation*

I don't get it. I like to try and verify the stock before ordering anything. If they don't have it, I aint ordering it.

With all these stories about promised ship dates missed it almost seems like a joke to even give one out. There are enough bike out there that are great that waiting 6mos+ for a frame to be made is insane. I know I will hear all the "got it in my favorite size" "couldn't find this exact one" "It is in rootbeer dude!" sort of stuff.

But isn't instant bike worth more than the idea of a bike 6mos down the road? Maybe it would stop this "dude, I sold my DH bike to pay for XYZ bike....they said it would be ready in February...now it is March and the season is coming up soon.....man I really need a bike"

I made the mistake of ordering a hat from a manufacturer on an order with a bunch of buddies....didn't care to look if it was in stock....still haven't received it and it is been atleast 9mos. Now, it was my fault for not checking....but I can't imagine waiting on a frame or more. My order for the hat was probably lost and I am out like $7 buck or something but a frame?

Simply makes no sense to me. It isn't like the bike won't pop up for sale by someone eager to get money on a hot item and not even ride the bike.

Rhino

 

[El Jefe]

Why?

*kind of a rant/observation*

I don't get it. I like to try and verify the stock before ordering anything. If they don't have it, I aint ordering it.

With all these stories about promised ship dates missed it almost seems like a joke to even give one out. There are enough bike out there that are great that waiting 6mos+ for a frame to be made is insane. I know I will hear all the "got it in my favorite size" "couldn't find this exact one" "It is in rootbeer dude!" sort of stuff.

But isn't instant bike worth more than the idea of a bike 6mos down the road? Maybe it would stop this "dude, I sold my DH bike to pay for XYZ bike....they said it would be ready in February...now it is March and the season is coming up soon.....man I really need a bike"

I made the mistake of ordering a hat from a manufacturer on an order with a bunch of buddies....didn't care to look if it was in stock....still haven't received it and it is been atleast 9mos. Now, it was my fault for not checking....but I can't imagine waiting on a frame or more. My order for the hat was probably lost and I am out like $7 buck or something but a frame?

Simply makes no sense to me. It isn't like the bike won't pop up for sale by someone eager to get money on a hot item and not even ride the bike.

Rhino

Well, I did verify it was in stock, and while I was in the financial position to hold on to my gold V10 (only 7 months old) I had the opportunity to sell it for a really good price to a guy who really needed a good bike. Had I not been BS'ed by SC, I wouldn't have sold it.

But to answer your question as to why someone would be so particular and willing (while not happily, but still willing) to wait an extended period of time for a particular frame, well all I have to say is that I bounced around on Nathan Rennie's new V10 a week before Sea Otter, and at that moment I knew I absolutely had to have that bike. Since they weren't offering trans gold this year, I decided white was what I wanted. I figure if I'm paying a pretty penny for a hand built frame that was designed as meticulously as the SC V10, I'm going to get it exactly how I want it. Call me a bike snob if you will, but I've ridden enough pieces of crap to know the difference. I'm doing a full new build on this bike and I've chosen every component. It'll be built by me (and Sgt Brown) just for me. If you can't understand that, then you should simply go ride a Motiv...

 

[SuperSlow]

I have other bikes including a dh bike. I work for an SC dealer so we are not treated like most other customers as unfair as it is. I like the new bike and how it rides, I will be ready for another bike in about 6 months, so I put the order in now. I also wouldnt be able to justify to my girlfriend as to why i need to buy another bike after i have bought 3 in the last 3 months.

 

[SuperSlow]

Oh and I dont pay until it comes in so im not out any money

 

[El Jefe]

I have other bikes including a dh bike. I work for an SC dealer so we are not treated like most other customers as unfair as it is. I like the new bike and how it rides, I will be ready for another bike in about 6 months, so I put the order in now. I also wouldnt be able to justify to my girlfriend as to why i need to buy another bike after i have bought 3 in the last 3 months.

Oh and I dont pay until it comes in so im not out any money

I have contacts at the bike shop that allow me access and treatment much better than your average customer, and I make a pretty damn good living that allows me to buy what I want. Should I expect delays? Sure. Should I expect to be bullsh!tted? no.

I'm sorry, what's your point again?

 

[SuperSlow]

Can you not read?

 

[SuperSlow]

im not saying that you deserve to be treated the way that you are. I was stating my response to the question

 

[El Jefe]

Can you not read?

Quite well, thanks.

im not saying that you deserve to be treated the way that you are. I was stating my response to the question

Basically you're saying that even as a bike shop employee you have to wait indefinite periods of time for bikes, and that you accept this as ok. I mean basically your answer to "why are you ok with waiting," is "because I'm ok with waiting." OK, I guess if that's your answer, then go with it.

 

[SuperSlow]

Im ok with waiting because I already have a DH bike and will have this new one when I am ready for another. I am willing to wait for a great frame with lots of time and effort put in to the design.

 

[Anders]

ha! and i was pissed when i found out id have to wait 2 weeks for a banshee frame

 

[RhinofromWA]

This wasn't to be a SC bitch fest....they are not the only manufacturer to fall victem to this....not by a long shot.

The V-10 is not the end all bike if you are looking for a Dh bike. And if you want one now, not 6mos from now, why wait? I don't think you are getting a lesser bike than the V-10 if you go somewhere else. It must make people feel special that they are on a waiting list? If a bike is on back order I will go elsewhere or see if I still want to buy one in 6mos or later when they become available. I will not put a down payment and sit their wanting a bike that is a half a year from materializing. Is any bike sooooo worth it that is makes sense to wait 6mos and drop some $$$ on a down payment? If color is the only thing holding it off why not get what is available? It doesn't make a bike ride different and you can have it repainted and riding much faster than waiting for it to be built.

Like I said SC is not alone in this regard. It seems to be the std practice in bike manufacturers to try to meet tough promise dates and fail doing so. This wasn't a jab at anyone in particular...(I don't keep track of who back ordered what)....but the experience just doesn't sound enjoyable in the least.

I bought a white Rotec mainframe when my red one needed to be replaced. A batch of red ones was to be sent in...(no specific date) Though White is maybe my second to last (after pink or purple ) choice of colored frames it was available and I didn't want the hassel of waiting for a color of all things.

I definately wouldn't sell my only Dh bike (or whatever bike) to be bikeless until the next bike comes in....that is no fun nomatter how you stack it. If I did sell my bike I would grab teh size that fit in the bike I wanted if it was available...color being a minor consideration.

Rhino

 

[El Jefe]

This wasn't to be a SC bitch fest....they are not the only manufacturer to fall victem to this....not by a long shot.

The V-10 is not the end all bike if you are looking for a Dh bike. And if you want one now, not 6mos from now, why wait? I don't think you are getting a lesser bike than the V-10 if you go somewhere else. It must make people feel special that they are on a waiting list? If a bike is on back order I will go elsewhere or see if I still want to buy one in 6mos or later when they become available. I will not put a down payment and sit their wanting a bike that is a half a year from materializing. Is any bike sooooo worth it that is makes sense to wait 6mos and drop some $$$ on a down payment? If color is the only thing holding it off why not get what is available? It doesn't make a bike ride different and you can have it repainted and riding much faster than waiting for it to be built.

Like I said SC is not alone in this regard. It seems to be the std practice in bike manufacturers to try to meet tough promise dates and fail doing so. This wasn't a jab at anyone in particular...(I don't keep track of who back ordered what)....but the experience just doesn't sound enjoyable in the least.

I bought a white Rotec mainframe when my red one needed to be replaced. A batch of red ones was to be sent in...(no specific date) Though White is maybe my second to last (after pink or purple ) choice of colored frames it was available and I didn't want the hassel of waiting for a color of all things.

I definately wouldn't sell my only Dh bike (or whatever bike) to be bikeless until the next bike comes in....that is no fun nomatter how you stack it. If I did sell my bike I would grab teh size that fit in the bike I wanted if it was available...color being a minor consideration.

Rhino

Have you ridden the new V10? Ridden it head to head with the old one? No? I didn't think so. I have. It's the bike that suits me. I've ridden a DHR and was amazed by it, but it's not the best bike for my riding style. V10 in white is what I wanted, V10 in white is what I was promised, V10 in white is still what I'm waiting to get. I'm not saying there aren't delays with other companies, but SC is the company who still owes me a bike that will now be here no sooner than 3 months after they said it would be here...most likely more.

BTW-at this point, SC has NO medium V10 frames, let alone medium white frames, so it's a wait no matter what.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Have you ridden the new V10? Ridden it head to head with the old one? No? I didn't think so. I have. It's the bike that suits me. I've ridden a DHR and was amazed by it, but it's not the best bike for my riding style. V10 in white is what I wanted, V10 in white is what I was promised, V10 in white is still what I'm waiting to get. I'm not saying there aren't delays with other companies, but SC is the company who still owes me a bike that will now be here no sooner than 3 months after they said it would be here...most likely more.

BTW-at this point, SC has NO medium V10 frames, let alone medium white frames, so it's a wait no matter what.

I have not, BUT will you say the new V-10 is the end all in DH MTB's? There will be something "more cool" 6mos down the road. Of that, I am sure....unless the V-10's don't ship then we will be waiting with baited breath for those still.

If SC didn't have my size frame and I wanted a bike in less than 6 mos than SC wouldn't get my business. Their bike isn't THAT good. Do I know that for a fact? No. Do you? No didn't think so....unless you have test rode every bike out there...if you did, I am jealous!

What if their first batch in was black or Red and the white was another "2-4 weeks out" would you opt for the red or black if offered the choice or wait another unspecified time?

Rhino

 

[Dingus McGee]

I had to backorder my new Ford GT40....sometimes you gotta wait for highend
limited production superstuff.

 

[CBJ]

Good point Rhino. I missed my last road trip with the old crew last year because I did not have my new 222 and then I missed most of the rest of the season because I had to move to the US. Almost a whole season out is no good but its not an easy choice to make as I would not trade back to the 2001 Stab Primo. Anybody changing frames better plan it right as life is short.

 

[Jm_]

well....if you didn't backorder a SC, you'd never get it, since some models seem to be perpetually on backorder

 

[El Jefe]

I have not, BUT will you say the new V-10 is the end all in DH MTB's? There will be something "more cool" 6mos down the road. Of that, I am sure....unless the V-10's don't ship then we will be waiting with baited breath for those still.

If SC didn't have my size frame and I wanted a bike in less than 6 mos than SC wouldn't get my business. Their bike isn't THAT good. Do I know that for a fact? No. Do you? No didn't think so....unless you have test rode every bike out there...if you did, I am jealous!

What if their first batch in was black or Red and the white was another "2-4 weeks out" would you opt for the red or black if offered the choice or wait another unspecified time?

Rhino

I've ridden enough different frames to know what I like and what I need...I guess you should be jealous? You're still missing the fvcking point....they told me they were in stock and ready to ship, not that I'd have to wait for 6 months.

 

[drift1492]

I ordered my new Sherman from Speedgoat on backorder. They said they would have them in 5 days. I placed my order, and when I got back in town from vacation 5 days later I called them and it shipped that morning.

 

[MMike]

I've probably written all of this before, but I don't "get" the bike industry at all. Mediocrity seems to be widely tolerated. And I will qualify everything here by saying that I really don't know what external factors govern the "flow"...and this of course does not apply to all companies. Jsut a few that I've had to deal with.....so um yeah...

But in the airplane industry, you don't miss deadlines. You just can't. Massive penalities are written into the contract for late shipments. Sometimes tens of thousands of dollars per day. QANTAS figures that it costs them about $50K US per day to have a 747-400 sit idle. They don't like that.

So if a deadline in going to be missed, then someone better be dead. Actually a whole bunch of people better be dead.

So I guess I'm used to things working differently than they do in the bike industry. When i was waiting for my Heckler last year and they kept pushing the ship date off week after week, I had to ask WHY?? Why give me a BS date and then keep pushing it off. I think I got it 8 weeks after they initially promised. Tell me the correct freaking date and work to it! Do they not know how to create proper production schedules? And blaming everything on some upstream supplier (a convenient culprit)...I dunno. We generally can't rely on that excuse. We committed to something. We sourced the the vendor and deemed him capable, then it's our goddamn problem to sort it out and to get the airline's plane back in the air.

I just can't swallow: "Uh huh huh yeah uh...our welder's on vacation...so uh...nothing's getting done"

I'm just used to working on a tighter ship I guess. ....... which I guess is the attraction (to some) of working in the bike industry.

 

[BMXman]

Basically the bike industry screws us because wel allow them to....there is no way I would wait more than 2 weeks for a bike company to ship my bike unless I was getting some type of custom work...D

 

[Ifelloffabike]

I've probably written all of this before, but I don't "get" the bike industry at all. Mediocrity seems to be widely tolerated.

people are all about bike companies having soul and that is one thing that corperate effeciancy sucks the life out of.

so next time you are getting lied to about when you will have your bike part or frame just tell yourself "atleast they arnt corperate whores with no soul"

 

[MMike]

people are all about bike companies having soul and that is one thing that corperate effeciancy sucks the life out of.

so next time you are getting lied to about when you will have your bike part or frame just tell yourself "atleast they arnt corperate whores with no soul"

Ok...can I ride the company's soul for 8 weeks while I wait?

 

[El Jefe]

people are all about bike companies having soul and that is one thing that corperate effeciancy sucks the life out of.

so next time you are getting lied to about when you will have your bike part or frame just tell yourself "atleast they arnt corperate whores with no soul"

Bullsh1t. Complete bullsh1t. Efficiency and a moderate degree of planning means little bike manufacturers have sold their souls? No, it means they need to put down the bowl and lighter, show up on time, and make a quality product when they say they will. That isn't big corporate whoring, that's good work ethic.

Take for example the mom and pop doughnut shop on the corner that I visit at least once a week with my daughter; they're always there, always have what I need, and if it gets busy, dad in the back comes up to help mom handle the crowd. Why? Not so that they can become corporate whores, but so their valued customers will continue to be customers.

Push Industries is as bike related as you can get. Send him your shock, and in a couple days it's done and sent back to you. Small? Yes, I've seen the facility. Efficient and timely? Yes. Soul-less? I don't think so.

Marzocchi, a very large international company still has real people answer the phones, helping customers and even has some eye candy at their reception desk. Big corporation? Yes. Good customer service? Yes. Soul-less? I think not.

No one with a soul would promise a bike frame and then not come through...THAT is soul-less.

 

[MMike]

Bullsh1t. Complete bullsh1t. Efficiency and a moderate degree of planning means little bike manufacturers have sold their souls? No, it means they need to put down the bowl and lighter, show up on time, and make a quality product when they say they will. That isn't big corporate whoring, that's good work ethic.

Take for example the mom and pop doughnut shop on the corner that I visit at least once a week with my daughter; they're always there, always have what I need, and if it gets busy, dad in the back comes up to help mom handle the crowd. Why? Not so that they can become corporate whores, but so their valued customers will continue to be customers.

Push Industries is as bike related as you can get. Send him your shock, and in a couple days it's done and sent back to you. Small? Yes, I've seen the facility. Efficient and timely? Yes. Soul-less? I don't think so.

Marzocchi, a very large international company still has real people answer the phones, helping customers and even has some eye candy at their reception desk. Big corporation? Yes. Good customer service? Yes. Soul-less? I think not.

No one with a soul would promise a bike frame and then not come through...THAT is soul-less.

Exactly...during my unemployment there a couple of years back, I quasi-worked for a bike related company. The most freaking frustrating thing I've ever done. NO-ONE was interested in returning phone calls or emails or just plain remembering that they promised to do something. It's like everyone in the industry was brain damaged or something. (Or maybe they just didn't want to return MY calls)

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I've probably written all of this before, but I don't "get" the bike industry at all. Mediocrity seems to be widely tolerated. And I will qualify everything here by saying that I really don't know what external factors govern the "flow"...and this of course does not apply to all companies. Jsut a few that I've had to deal with.....so um yeah...

But in the airplane industry, you don't miss deadlines. You just can't. Massive penalities are written into the contract for late shipments. Sometimes tens of thousands of dollars per day. QANTAS figures that it costs them about $50K US per day to have a 747-400 sit idle. They don't like that.

So if a deadline in going to be missed, then someone better be dead. Actually a whole bunch of people better be dead.

So I guess I'm used to things working differently than they do in the bike industry. When i was waiting for my Heckler last year and they kept pushing the ship date off week after week, I had to ask WHY?? Why give me a BS date and then keep pushing it off. I think I got it 8 weeks after they initially promised. Tell me the correct freaking date and work to it! Do they not know how to create proper production schedules? And blaming everything on some upstream supplier (a convenient culprit)...I dunno. We generally can't rely on that excuse. We committed to something. We sourced the the vendor and deemed him capable, then it's our goddamn problem to sort it out and to get the airline's plane back in the air.

I just can't swallow: "Uh huh huh yeah uh...our welder's on vacation...so uh...nothing's getting done"

I'm just used to working on a tighter ship I guess. ....... which I guess is the attraction (to some) of working in the bike industry.

You're compareing apples to oranges here Mike, I'm sure SC would be on time if the had a $5-$10 million dollar airplane to deliver. But since the majority of the bike industry is very small with really the exceptions of Trek & Specialized, you have to expect delays. And a lot of time manufactures are at the mercy of their supplyers, welders and finishers. One slip up and it can change everything, like we had to wait for an order of BB's now or powder coater is out of White paint and his distributer is also waiting to get it in, but he had it two weeks ago while you were waiting for those BB's. And yes, production can slow down in a smaller company when someone goes on vacation (like a welder) or is sick.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Basically the bike industry screws us because wel allow them to....there is no way I would wait more than 2 weeks for a bike company to ship my bike unless I was getting some type of custom work...D

Really? You waited more than 2 weeks for your Cortina.

 

[Acadian]

You're compareing apples to oranges here Mike, I'm sure SC would be on time if the had a $5-$10 million dollar airplane to deliver.

 

[RhinofromWA]

I've ridden enough different frames to know what I like and what I need...I guess you should be jealous? You're still missing the fvcking point....they told me they were in stock and ready to ship, not that I'd have to wait for 6 months.

If they were in stock and ready to ship you would have had it by now, no?

I am not bagging on you....you were essentially lied to by someone not in the know.

If I found out 2weeks after ordering that they are on back order after being told they were instock...I would pull my money right back and look elsewhere. For me it isn't worth it. Apperantly the v-10 is worth 6mos to you. Not me. That is cool if you are OK with the waiting.....wich it doesn't seem you are.

I got the point....I won't order backorder bikes.

 

[Echo]

People make like the bike industry is the only industry with delays. Simply not true. Try to order a high end digital print press. Costs between a half million and a million. The buyer gets a delivery date that the manufacturer knows damn well they can't deliver. But it keeps that customer from spending their six figures somewhere else. Is it right? No. But it happens in a lot more places than the bike industry.

When I ordered my SS frame from Kona, they said middle of April. When I got the frame in June, I was just happy to have gotten it at all. And I work at a Kona dealer.

I guess if you're willing to ride whatever is available, you can have whatever is available. But if you want something specific, be prepared to wait.

And El Jefe, there is no excuse for them telling you the frame was in stock, then reneging. If you raise a good stink, you can probably get some sort of compensation for that BS.

 

[Knuckleslammer]

I'm gonna add this and kudos to Iron Horse. They hooked me up big time. I was told the same story. March, April, May, June, finally I get my bike and it's got a 5th air on it when it was supposed to have the 5th coil. I blew a nut at the bike shop and they told me that the coil was coming and that I could keep the air shock. I'm like WHAT? So I call Iron Horse to verify this and they said "yes, progressive is making the coil shocks as we speak and for your aggravation, you can keep the air shock"

Aggravating? Yes

Was I compensated? HELL YEAH



IH comes through again

Knuckle

 

[UiUiUiUi]

here you can only dream of a service like that from any company in the bike business

i am jealous

 

[BMXman]

Really? You waited more than 2 weeks for your Cortina.

Well, I had to wait for the custom Avalanche shock....D

 

[BMXman]

No one with a soul would promise a bike frame and then not come through...THAT is soul-less.

there it is in a nutshell....D

 

[El Jefe]

If they were in stock and ready to ship you would have had it by now, no?

Yes, one would think so.

I am not bagging on you....you were essentially lied to by someone not in the know.

Trust me, the person I spoke to at SC was someone in the know... if you know SC, you know of whom I speak. It's not that I think they necessarily told a bold faced lie from the beginning, but they maybe spoke based on promises made to them of delivery, or estimates on production rates, whatever.... I'd say typical BS'ing...not really a ton of difference, but

If I found out 2weeks after ordering that they are on back order after being told they were instock...I would pull my money right back and look elsewhere. For me it isn't worth it. Apperantly the v-10 is worth 6mos to you. Not me. That is cool if you are OK with the waiting.....wich it doesn't seem you are.

I got the point....I won't order backorder bikes.

I didn't find out 2 weeks after. After 2 weeks, I was told "another 2 weeks." This went on for 2 months, now after 2 months, they say "sometime in July." I would have either pulled the order and got a DHR, or not sold my other V10 so early, but hindsight is 20/20....and it really is the frame I want. Oh well, bitching about it doesn't help. I'll just go for an XC ride, or dirt jumping, or build back up my trail bike, or go for a road ride...it's not like I'm without bike at all....just my new beautiful baby.

 

[MMike]

Yep. Not cool. I have no problem with something taking a long time. If that's how long it takes, then that's how long it takes. But don't lie to me and say "It'll be a week", when it definitely will NOT be. When you make your schedules you have to factor in that Frankie the welder will be off for two weeks.

If SC tells you something is in stock when it is not, well that is ...bad. Is it possible that they are lying to ensure your order? If they tell you, it'll be 2 months, are they afraid that you'll say "Oh...really? Damn...thanks anyway". Most likely. It worked on me with my Heckler. I was told something. I said "Okay great". Time passed, they pushed it off...I figured, "Oh well, that's not too much longer." More time passed..."Ok well I guess I've waited THIS long...what's another week?".....More time passed...I got pissed off. The last phone call that I made, I was actually going to cancel my order. Coincidentally, the bike had arrived that day.

If you don't have the infrastructre to handle your volume, then DO something about it. Or be honest about your delivery dates.

 

[Ratfink]

Have you ridden the new V10? Ridden it head to head with the old one? No? I didn't think so. I have. It's the bike that suits me. I've ridden a DHR and was amazed by it, but it's not the best bike for my riding style. V10 in white is what I wanted, V10 in white is what I was promised, V10 in white is still what I'm waiting to get. I'm not saying there aren't delays with other companies, but SC is the company who still owes me a bike that will now be here no sooner than 3 months after they said it would be here...most likely more.

BTW-at this point, SC has NO medium V10 frames, let alone medium white frames, so it's a wait no matter what.

Jefe! Very true statement! The DHR is not a very good bike for flying head first into the ground over and over again!!!

!HLD!

 

[Macrider]

LOL! nice to see you back in form, you've dropped the Human Lawn Dart baton for a while....

I agree with the above, the white V-10 which will not show up any time soon, is the perfect bike to perform a HLD on! :devil:

LONG LIVE THE HLD!

 

[El Jefe]

Jefe! Very true statement! The DHR is not a very good bike for flying head first into the ground over and over again!!!

!HLD!

LOL! nice to see you back in form, you've dropped the Human Lawn Dart baton for a while....

I agree with the above, the white V-10 which will not show up any time soon, is the perfect bike to perform a HLD on!

LONG LIVE THE HLD!

Gee thanks guys. :nuts:

 

[Acadian]

HLD?? care to explain?

 

[Macrider]

Human Lawn Dart

Jefe is the king of playing it!