read the link. a little thing called "Gravity Logic"So what does or will windham offer that mtn creek or plattekill does not already? plattekill you can burn things, and diablo creek has great trail building, a fast lift, and proximity to the city.
It's a bit like opening a mcdonald's next to a burger king, and talking about the variety.
i think they just gave their in-house group a name?didn't mtn creek also have a brand name "feature" designer for a while?
enough. they will probably be building in spring as well.How many trails can windham really build in the next ~6mo (excluding ski season)?
they either have enough employees to have teams at each mountain, or sorcery.How is gravity logic building a park at windham and at killington?
eh, in my experience dilution does not make for better competition, just more mediocre options.Damn bike industry, shoving this new mountain down our throats. We already have two options, why do we need a third? Platty for life, yo!
Are you really complaining about having to many bike parks?eh, in my experience dilution does not make for better competition, just more mediocre options.
this is sandwich you're talking about. he'll complain about anything, even if it doesn't really bother him.Are you really complaining about having to many bike parks?
this. i'd love to see the mountains join up and offer a weekend pass for 1 day at both mountains.Oh the horror, I'll have to ride Platty and Windham in one weekend!
To be honest I don't get to go to Platty nearly enough, having 2 places to go within close proximity of each other only sweetens the deal for me. Of course I'll still be doing my camping at Platty.
I know as much as he has helped me with threads in the past I gotta call him the F out on that one. It isnt his money...isnt this what we all want?this is sandwich you're talking about. he'll complain about anything, even if it doesn't really bother him.
I'm pretty miserable, but I don't think I'm backwards thinking, yet. I've got a few more years before I start saying "back in my day" and "we should all just ride rigids".i want to get a beer with sandwich and find out if he is really this miserable and backwards thinking, i doubt it.
I'm just afraid that windham is going to torpedo the other local parks because they'll draw all the riders there, then get bored when they see that they can't be as lucrative as whistler unless they build 20 high quality trails. Nobody is going to travel from california to ride windham unless they have the volume and rider dedication that whistler has. Could they? Yeah, some day, but the fact that they've had 5 years to open a bike park and haven't, and that gravity logic is also supposedly building a park at killington that's also going to be "the [other] whistler of the east", I just don't see this ending well.It dilutes the field, it doesn't draw more. So, less people are going to go to mt creek and plattekill, but it's not like all of a sudden there's going to be more riders. plattekill and mt creek will respond with mediocrity, because they can't afford to build new trails with less riders. Windham will respond with lukewarm glee now that they've spent oodles of money but are only drawing 50% of the rider pool in the area, because some people are still going to go to plattekill and mt creek.
It's the same case in new england. We have killington, jiminy, mt snow, sugarbush, attitash, and burke. The rise and existence of highland has not caused these places to step up their level of trailbuilding, it's caused them to care less, because there's less riders visiting now.
So, my prediction is that windham throws a bunch of money down, sees a fair showing for the first month, sees a steady decline in the number of riders, refuses to build more trails until the ridership increases, which causes ridership to decline further, and they close up operations not long after.
Mountain biking just isn't that lucrative unless you go all out, with complete 100% commitment and a dedicated local rider pool to make it happen. That's why whistler and highland are so successful.
According to most advertising I see, you're supposed to carry your bike across the stream, or at least stand ankle deep in it and stare off into the distance with your bike on your shoulder.you only ride your rigid 29'er in streams.
is this an enduro technique or cyclocross technique? i'm confused.According to most advertising I see, you're supposed to carry your bike across the stream, or at least stand ankle deep in it and stare off into the distance with your bike on your shoulder.
you only ride your rigid 29'er in streams.
He makes a good point with market 'saturation' !!sandwich proves once again he's the best wet blanket around
i forgot about them working with Killington. should be interesting to see how much more work will go into Killington based on Windham not opening many trailsand that gravity logic is also supposedly building a park at killington that's also going to be "the [other] whistler of the east", I just don't see this ending well.
blue mountain pa? when?I know i am only one measly customer.
But.....
My wife and I enjoy racing, we certainly enjoy racing a LOT more at parks that have multiple trails for us to enjoy that are well marked and easy to navigate.
We're much more willing to come and spend money at Seven Springs , Mountain Creek, Snowshoe, Platty, and Launch. (we're heading to blue mountain in september to check it out as well) than we are willing to go and race at Duryea, Massanutten, etc. Where we only have a race course to ride after an 8-12 hour car ride.
For us, this will make Windham a more attractive race venue for us. Having the world cup at the same time as our race was cool, but we did miss the ability to go take some fun/mellow runs as well.
ESC Race weekend of 9-14/15.blue mountain pa? when?
definitely agree with a lot of your points.To Sandwich's point there are some pretty terrible mountains out there. I hear Sugarbush has stepped up it's game, but it was NOT worth the trip 2 years ago. It will take a couple years of you guys claiming it's great now for me to give it a second chance.
There are more mediocre mountains around the East Coast, but I won't bother going into naming names. I am not convinced these spots have enough local ridership $ to sustain quality trails, and they certainly won't become destination mountains (like Highland) with what they have on offer.
Our sport is growing, I think, but it's not growing all that fast.
PS I hope Windham proves us wrong and gives Mountain Creek a run for it's money.
What?! He lives! How's the CPC Patriot?plattekill windham only race series!? sorry just thinking back to the platty series days... ahhh
Sounds very familiar. From the mountains I've seen on the other coast, when this approach is used, all it does is compromise the potential of bike trails. Mountains hire lifties already on the payroll from winter to save money, whether they know what they're doing with dirt or not, because, hey we need money for that zipline course too!The vision and plan is to make this a destination for biking and a year around summer resort. They have already purchased the golf course and country club in town to expand their summer activities.
if only mtn creek or highland had the vertical drop and acreage to complement their business plans....*sigh*I hope that's not the case because it seems like every mountain in the US wants to be 'the american whistler' but with the exception of maybe mountain creek and highland, no one seems to understand what whistler actually did to get where they are today in the mountain bike scene.
I wish you guys luck.