World Cup points

heikkihall · Dec 2, 2006

good luck trying to get a point at a canada cup. if you cant get top 15-20 at a us national in pro you probably wont be top 10 in canada. theyre quick up there.

rumors are floatin around that mountain states cups will have points next year.

ViciousDHer · Dec 2, 2006

Same requirements for Juniors ??

roadtrip Heikki ??

heikkihall · Dec 2, 2006

ViciousDHer said:
Same requirements for Juniors ??

roadtrip Heikki ??

Same requirements for Juniors as far as I am aware. Vitox may be able to clarify? The requirements for juniors to get points is a little odd since most Junior races in the world do not offer points. In order for a junior to get issued a point their time has to be top 10 in the Elite class, run on the same course the same day as far as I am aware. I know its possible I am just not sure how.

vtminuteman · Dec 2, 2006

If you don't have points from previous seasons and they require points, you might be out of luck. You find one or two races early in the season that give UCI points, you have a clean run and get a point, you get cleared to race through USA cycling, then you can race. Lots of things have to go right in a short period of time.

jus · Dec 2, 2006

As for racing world cup when your a junior I think your best bet is to contact your cycling governing body (for me it was the Canadian Cycling Assosiation) and talk with them to see if you are eligable. If you are top 10-15 you should be fine.

vitox · Dec 2, 2006

IF (i havent talked to them in a while but i have an outstanding issue with them so ill be calling them this week) the UCI points rule for the world cup comes back in place, then your best bet would be the pan am mtb championships that are to be held in villa la angostura, argentina on the week of the 10th of march.
this is the continental championship and gives points 40. for registration here you have to inquire with your national federation and each country gets a maximum of 10 slots plus the defending champ (chile hehe). in junior the race is considered a class 2 so points 10 deep.

the other option would my urban dh race on feb 18th in valparaiso (meaning summer&beach for the geographically challenged) that was class1 (20 deep) this years but might get demoted to class2 (10 deep) since i basically told the UCI comissaire to F off when he told me the stunts (wallride mostly) we had on the course were "a circus".

count on me for any help if you guys want to travel down here.

vitox · Dec 2, 2006

jus said:
As for racing world cup when your a junior I think your best bet is to contact your cycling governing body (for me it was the Canadian Cycling Assosiation) and talk with them to see if you are eligable. If you are top 10-15 you should be fine.

yes in the case of juniors the best bet would be to have the federation enter you directly, they have discressionary power to do that to a point.

ViciousDHer · Dec 2, 2006

vitox, if Your race is a class two for pro, how deep do points go for juniors. also any points race in Venezula ? We have family there. thanks for Your imput

vitox · Dec 2, 2006

ViciousDHer said:
vitox, if Your race is a class two for pro, how deep do points go for juniors. also any points race in Venezula ? We have family there. thanks for Your imput

i only do one class, i have seen its one hell of a motivation for the groms to race against the very best on the continent, better show that way, no uci points in venezuela im afraid.

heres a vid im not sure if i have posted or not, czech it its worth it.

Rye_Bread · Dec 2, 2006

heikkihall said:
rumors are floatin around that mountain states cups will have points next year.

...they're much better qualifiers for worlds, so it makes sense....

vitox · Dec 2, 2006

heikkihall said:
rumors are floatin around that mountain states cups will have points next year.

thatd be weird, because you have to register for the UCI calendar by july.

Flips · Dec 3, 2006

for how many seasons does a point carry over for? obviously points from last year count but what about previous years??

heikkihall · Dec 3, 2006

Flips said:
for how many seasons does a point carry over for? obviously points from last year count but what about previous years??

Points only carry over exactly 1 year from the date you got them. If you got 15 points on July 8th last season, then you lose 15 points on July 8th next season.

Tenacious Doug · Dec 3, 2006

heikkihall said:
Same requirements for Juniors as far as I am aware. Vitox may be able to clarify? The requirements for juniors to get points is a little odd since most Junior races in the world do not offer points. In order for a junior to get issued a point their time has to be top 10 in the Elite class, run on the same course the same day as far as I am aware. I know its possible I am just not sure how.

Points are rewarded to the fastest ten (or more depending on the UCI ranking status) times of the day regardless of class, so if a master or sport rider got a time that was one of the ten fastest of the day they would get points. Do juniors run seperate courses at NORBA? Certainly over here everyone, regardless of class, runs on the same course so anyone has a shot at points if they are quick enough.

vitox · Dec 3, 2006

Tenacious Doug said:
Points are rewarded to the fastest ten times of the day regardless of class, so if a master or sport rider got a time that was one of the ten fastest of the day they would get points. Do juniors run seperate courses at NORBA? Certainly over here everyone, regardless of class, runs on the same course so anyone has a shot at points if they are quick enough.

this is true on one day events but not at world championships, continental, or national championships.

ViciousDHer · Dec 3, 2006

I am confused. What in Your opinion would be the best/easiest/cheapest way for a fast 16 year old Junior Expert from the East Coast to be able to enter a World Cup Race next year ?

thanks

vitox · Dec 3, 2006

ViciousDHer said:
I am confused. What in Your opinion would be the best/easiest/cheapest way for a fast 16 year old Junior Expert from the East Coast to be able to enter a World Cup Race next year ?

thanks

by far easier and cheaper to go the federation route, convince them to enter you and you are done.
you dont happen to have a venezuela passport? if so, well....

DIRTWRKS · Dec 3, 2006

ViciousDHer said:
I am confused. What in Your opinion would be the best/easiest/cheapest way for a fast 16 year old Junior Expert from the East Coast to be able to enter a World Cup Race next year ?

thanks

Pretty sure that Junior class at WC level is 17 & 18 years old, don't remember seeing a 16 year old at any WC races ?

davetrump · Dec 3, 2006

ViciousDHer said:
I am confused. What in Your opinion would be the best/easiest/cheapest way for a fast 16 year old Junior Expert from the East Coast to be able to enter a World Cup Race next year ?

thanks

first off you will need to convince USA cycling to give him a pro liscence/UCI elite license. even in the years you do not need points you still must carry an UCI elite international license. If you are a pro under USA Cycling this is the license you are issued each year. A junior expert can not race a world cup.

basically he needs to have the results to be a pro and then he needs to get points (if it ends up that points are needed)

and as someone mentioned there is an age cutoff with the UCI, it is either 16 or 17 but i am not sure... he might be to young still.

the closest race to you with points wil be the bromont canada cup in mid may, and tremblant canada cup in late may. but as someone mentioned before the points only go 10 deep and there is no way anyone around here is gona pull that off (top 10 canadian racers are faster than almost every pro in the US except for maye 1 or 2)

DIRTWRKS · Dec 3, 2006

Here aew some interesting stats from last year's Mt .Ste Anne World Cup.

There were atotal of 16 Junior racers entered, 11 were 18 years old and 5 were 17 years old.

7 were from Europe, 6 from North America, and 3 from the Asia / Pacific Region.

10 of 16 Juniors made the cut " Top 80" in Qualifying to race in the final.

Top Junior was Sam Blekinsop of New Zealand in 28th overall.

Top North American Junior was Canadian Hans Lambert in 62nd.

Top USA Junior was Daniel Hultgen in 64th overall.

ViciousDHer · Dec 3, 2006

Seems like a catch-22 with USA Cycling. He has been approved for a PRO upgrade BUT That would make Him ineligible to represent the USA at the Junior Worlds, unlike other countries where a junior pro is still able to compete at the Junior level. Heck a few years ago a top JrX could race pro and JrX at the same event. but that's another story. I don't know why usacycling seems to be hampering JrXer's, but I assume it's probably not how fast You are but who You know.

davetrump · Dec 3, 2006

ViciousDHer said:
Seems like a catch-22 with USA Cycling. He has been approved for a PRO upgrade BUT That would make Him ineligible to represent the USA at the Junior Worlds, unlike other countries where a junior pro is still able to compete at the Junior level. Heck a few years ago a top JrX could race pro and JrX at the same event. but that's another story. I don't know why usacycling seems to be hampering JrXer's, but I assume it's probably not how fast You are but who You know.

are you sure about that? there were a handful of US juniors at the MSA world cup lasy year, and they also raced worlds. i thought the rule was that you could be a junior with a pro lcense but you had to choose to race junior x at a NCS race OR pro... not both.

a few years ago you could race both but that was ended based on the fact that junior/pro's were practiceing with the pro class and then racing the expert race (we all know that expert practice sucks if you are one a fast junior). basically they wanted to keep the junior x playong field level.

i think he would just have to race (and practice) in the expert class at the NCS races if he wanted to qyualify for worlds... there are usually a few selected races that are considered qualifiers.
if that is the rule it was changed for 2007 or was not enforced last year

Flips · Dec 4, 2006

heikkihall said:
Points only carry over exactly 1 year from the date you got them. If you got 15 points on July 8th last season, then you lose 15 points on July 8th next season.

if you are ranked, you have a point. i don't have any points from this year and i am still ranked in in this years rankings.

will that carry over???

SinatorJ · Dec 4, 2006

I talked with the guy from USA cycling a few weeks ago about this and he said that a point would NOT be necessary this season.

General Lee · Dec 4, 2006

makes sense not to have points these days. besides giving unranked riders the chance to race if they can make the main, it ups the overall attendance to the race. 190 men in spain this year, 160 in Canada. besides creating more competition it brings in a lot more $$$ to the event when you consider what the average rider spends on food, lodging, entry, etc.

Red Bull · Dec 4, 2006

General Lee said:
makes sense not to have points these days. besides giving unranked riders the chance to race if they can make the main, it ups the overall attendance to the race. 190 men in spain this year, 160 in Canada. besides creating more competition it brings in a lot more $$$ to the event when you consider what the average rider spends on food, lodging, entry, etc.

if thats the case im definitely racing.

ViciousDHer · Dec 4, 2006

davetrump said:
are you sure about that? there were a handful of US juniors at the MSA world cup lazy year, and they also raced worlds. i thought the rule was that you could be a junior with a pro license but you had to choose to race junior x at a NCS race OR pro... not both.

a few years ago you could race both but that was ended based on the fact that junior/pro's were practicing with the pro class and then racing the expert race (we all know that expert practice sucks if you are one a fast junior). basically they wanted to keep the junior x playing field level.

i think he would just have to race (and practice) in the expert class at the NCS races if he wanted to qualify for worlds... there are usually a few selected races that are considered qualifiers.
if that is the rule it was changed for 2007 or was not enforced last year

After talking to an USACycling official today I found out the following, It seems the rules have changed in recent years and are not finalized for next year as of yet.

UCI will only let 17-18 year olds compete in a world cup.
UCI will only let 17-18 year olds compete for the Junior Worlds

USACycling rules are very fluid and are reviewed from Year to Year.

USACycling rules are different for Downhill and XC.

You have to race Your age group at the National Championships. (a 16 year old JrX racer will have to race 16 and under expert, no move up unlike NMBS races)

USACycling has approved 17-18 year old JrXer's who petitioned to race World Cups. No points needed.

There have been no under 18 pros upgraded in DH since the one day national championship was instituted a couple of years ago, because that would make the racer ineligible for the national championship as a Junior. But not against the rules to be upgraded just strongly discouraged.
See: NORBA Pros 2006 1-18 Rankings

Changes for 2007(pending):
Allowing under 18 Pros to compete for the National Championship.

Having selected races classified as Junior Open, so under 18 pros can qualify for the national championship. (this has been done in XC, Mt. Snow NMBS was a Jr Open XC last year)

Under 18 Pros would only be able to race as a Junior in a NORBA sanctioned Junior open race and the National Championships.

There lots of reasons explained to Me about the current rules and the pending changes and believe it or not it made some sense. The main reason for the 2007 proposals is to let Upgraded Juniors practice with pros.

I hope that is somewhat coherent.

Bottom line Geoff will probably race pro next year as a 16 Year old and We'll worry about the UCI in 2008.

DIRTWRKS · Dec 4, 2006

ViciousDHer said:
After talking to an USACycling official today I found out the following, It seems the rules have changed in recent years and are not finalized for next year as of yet.

UCI will only let 17-18 year olds compete in a world cup.
UCI will only let 17-18 year olds compete for the Junior Worlds

USACycling rules are very fluid and are reviewed from Year to Year.

USACycling rules are different for Downhill and XC.

You have to race Your age group at the National Championships. (a 16 year old JrX racer will have to race 16 and under expert, no move up unlike NMBS races)

USACycling has approved 17-18 year old JrXer's who petitioned to race World Cups. No points needed.

There have been no under 18 pros upgraded in DH since the one day national championship was instituted a couple of years ago, because that would make the racer ineligible for the national championship as a Junior. But not against the rules to be upgraded just strongly discouraged.
See: NORBA Pros 2006 1-18 Rankings

Changes for 2007(pending):
Allowing under 18 Pros to compete for the National Championship.

Having selected races classified as Junior Open, so under 18 pros can qualify for the national championship. (this has been done in XC, Mt. Snow NMBS was a Jr Open XC last year)

Under 18 Pros would only be able to race as a Junior in a NORBA sanctioned Junior open race and the National Championships.

There lots of reasons explained to Me about the current rules and the pending changes and believe it or not it made some sense. The main reason for the 2007 proposals is to let Upgraded Juniors practice with pros.

I hope that is somewhat coherent.

Bottom line Geoff will probably race pro next year as a 16 Year old and We'll worry about the UCI in 2008.

Well that's exactly what I remember from last year regarding the age limit of 17 for World Cup events. My son was one of the top 16 year old racers in Canada and there was no way our provincial association would let him compete at Ste Anne. In fact they only let one Junior from Canada compete, a 17 year old that got some really good results during some of our Canada Cup races that would have put him in the top ten in Pro !
You would think since the race at Mt SteAnne was being held here that it would be easier for our Juniors to get in but it's the exact opposite it's extremely difficult. Only one Canadian Junior got in, however five American Juniors got to race.

ViciousDHer · Dec 4, 2006

each country is allocated a number of open slots. not sure how that works but the US did had 5 this past year.

DIRTWRKS · Dec 4, 2006

ViciousDHer said:
each country is allocated a number of open slots. not sure how that works but the US did had 5 this past year.

I thought those allocated slots were only for World's in New Zealand.

In looking at the five US racers that competed at Mont Ste Anne,not sure if there was any previous performance or race results requirements. In talking to a few of them it sounded like they just simply registered for the race.

Transcend · Dec 5, 2006

ViciousDHer said:
each country is allocated a number of open slots. not sure how that works but the US did had 5 this past year.

Allocated slots are only for worlds. World cups are completely open for any rider with an elite license (and possibly 1 uci point, but they like to change this for kicks I think).

All of the Junior spots and even senior spots are now up to the local federations. In the US this is USAC, in Canada this is your local provincial federation who makes the initial cut, and then the CCA who makes the final cut. As far as I am aware, the only cuts Canada made was to non elite riders who tried to register. and as dirtwrks said, pretty much all juniors.

Some DH folks are trying to change this for 2007 in order to help develop junior riders, but seeing as canada doesn't really have a junior ranking system at this point, it makes life really difficult on the federations to pick and choose who can and who cannot race at the junior level. lame.

vitox · Dec 5, 2006

a bit off topic but just got word from the UCI that my race will be class1 so it pays uci points 20 deep.
http://www.uci.ch/ucinet/uci.asp?page=Calendar&discipline=mtb&ryear=2007&ridercategory=me&continent=mon&l=eng

i guess im honored to see its the only class1 dh race outside europe and also the only urban dh race that has that category.

ÃX · Dec 5, 2006

vitox said:
a bit off topic but just got word from the UCI that my race will be class1 so it pays uci points 20 deep.
http://www.uci.ch/ucinet/uci.asp?page=Calendar&discipline=mtb&ryear=2007&ridercategory=me&continent=mon&l=eng

i guess im honored to see its the only class1 dh race outside europe and also the only urban dh race that has that category.

i didn't know that was your baby vitox. good job!

Pip3r · Dec 5, 2006

anyone know about 4x?

Transcend · Dec 5, 2006

Pip3r said:
anyone know about 4x?

4x has always been open to non points holders. I don't see this changing as they can barely fill a 32 person field as it is, forget 64.

General Lee · Dec 5, 2006

and 4x is the easiest way to get a point. if you make the cut you get a point.

Transcend · Dec 5, 2006

Only DH and 4x points are supposed to be seperate.

vitox · Dec 5, 2006

bcd said:
i didn't know that was your baby vitox. good job!

thanks alex, i guess if you didnt know then i still have some more bragging to do eh.

now, does that mean i should print "morgan" on one of the numberplates for next year?

and now for some totally uncalled for pictures!

World Cup points

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

eBay vigilante

Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

eBay vigilante

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

eBay vigilante

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

eBay vigilante

Turbo Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

eBay vigilante

Monkey

eBay vigilante

Monkey

My Nuts Are Flat

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

My Nuts Are Flat

Turbo Monkey

My Nuts Are Flat

Turbo Monkey