I've been running full X.0 on my AM bike and some mix of X.0/X.9 on my DH bike for years now. Am I an idiot to consider trying out the new saint stuff? A friend tried the new XT shadow stuff last year and it felt like trash to me. I jerked around in the Highland parking lot on a friends bike who had the Saint but with a cast on one arm I couldn't get a good feel for it. I like the crisp feel of Sram and am not willing to give that up. The fact it never comes out of adjustment is nice too. I also have nightmares of the older Shimano stuff being so damn loud banging around. Saint is also heavier but would think the rear Der. can take more of a beating. I'm sure what this stuff costs but if both were within $20-$40 to me am I crazy to not go with X.0 on the new build and try the Saint?
X.0 vs new Saint
- Thread starter NJHCx4xLIFE
- Start date
If you like Sram stay with Sram.
And I only use Shimano.
And I only use Shimano.
i liek my saint RD, only thing i dont liek about it is it pivots around the chainstay/hanger and slaps the bottom of the chainstay. A little rubber tubing solves that entirely though.
Stick with SRAM. The two brands have a different feel. You clearly like the crisper feel of what your riding, and I can assure you that the grass is not greener on the other side.
Some times there is not even grass on the other side. Some prefer it that way.
I would run the Saint brakes in a heart beat. I have not enjoyed my initial experience with XT coming from SRAM stuff for years. I agree it's just a matter of preference, but if you're happy with SRAM, I'd stick with it.
If you haven't had any issues with the SRAM stuff then don't change it. I'm currently running X9 shifter/derailleur and it shifts fairly nicely, though still has SRAM's trademark plasticky feel and tons of play in the derailleur. Right before that I had a Saint setup and while I never managed to hit that derailleur very hard (until I somehow snapped the cage off - I'm still not sure how it happened), it got play in the two main pivots pretty quickly. Fortunately the play in those was actually fixable unlike what my X9 currently has, but it was still a bit of a letdown for such an expensive derailleur. The spring tension in that was huge too, it definitely shifted a lot more heavily than my previous Shimano stuff - more similar to what the X9 stuff is like to be honest. It also didn't come out of whack very often (which in my experience is usually due to mud in the cables) which I again put down to the higher spring tension being able to overcome more cable friction.
Really though - stick with what you've got unless it's giving you trouble.
Really though - stick with what you've got unless it's giving you trouble.
Buying a new drivetrain either way for a new bike but what people are saying does make sense about sticking with what you know works. Part of me wanted to try something new but not exactly a "cheap" way to realize it wasn't what I was hoping for. If you are saying they got the Saint feel on par with x.9 and up-ed the spring tension then it may be worth it for the extra durability though. hhhmmm...
Last edited:
The feel is not the same. I agree with Udi that it feels much better than the XT shadow stuff, and is closer to X9/0, but it still isnt as crisp as SRAM. It still feel like Shimano. You will notice the difference. My co-worker made the shift over to Saint, and back to X9 for this reason. Costly expirement indeed.
I agree there is a difference in the feel - the Shimano stuff still has a shorter throw at the shifter than the SRAM stuff I think, and the upshift release doesn't quite have the same clunk that SRAM does - but I don't agree that the SRAM stuff actually shifts any better as such.
Also, I'm not Udi.
I run an X0 shifter and X9 derailleur on one of my bikes and an XT shifter with a Saint derailleur on another. The XT/Saint combo lacks the really crisp mechanical feel that the SRAM stuff has - it's different, but not necessarily bad. I think the XT shifter feels a little plasticky, and the Saint shifter is similar. No dramas with either system going out of adjustment (full length housing ftw!)
A good option would be an XTR shifter with a Saint derailleur. This would be the best of both worlds imho - the lighter feel of a Shimano setup with a more mechanical feeling shifter
A good option would be an XTR shifter with a Saint derailleur. This would be the best of both worlds imho - the lighter feel of a Shimano setup with a more mechanical feeling shifter
Last weekend i tested a couple of runs with two shimano setups, one was the XT shadow and the other the new saint. To shift to a lower gear the shimano is faster and engages quicker, but to release tension to a higher gear my trusty X7 "clack" is still better feeling.
My two friends with saints dr's on their glorys already got problems, one with a broken spring and the other got massive play in the gold pivots.
Stick to SRAM, $hitmano is good for XC and cranks, maybe brakes if you can deal with the mineral oil.
My two friends with saints dr's on their glorys already got problems, one with a broken spring and the other got massive play in the gold pivots.
Stick to SRAM, $hitmano is good for XC and cranks, maybe brakes if you can deal with the mineral oil.
I can't speak for X0 but my Saint has been soooo much better than any SRAM drivetrain product I have ever used. I'm running Saint rear with a X7 attack and 8sp and it has been very reliable and still gives me the thumb shifting I prefer.
I am actually going to the shimano myself, for one main reason....... It tuckinto the frame better, and doesnt stick out near as much as the shadow components. I just killed yet another Sram derailuer this past weekend, and need to try something stronger. Going with a hone direct mount, sticks oiut just as far, but should be far stronger over all. We will see.
Keeping in mind that I am the Pope of the Shimano Church, I say this. If you like X.0, like the others have said, stay with it. The last thing we need is another rider switching to shimano and feeling burned. Sram has a distinctive feel to it, and X.0 actually rides o.k.. I can't get used to how cheap feeling it is though. Even the carbon bits on it feel like cheaply made toys. I found the X.9 I had on my cowan (built for AM trail riding with proper seat height) didn't shift under power even when set up super pro. I am not a fan of any of their drivetrain stuff save for the Hammerschmidt. I run M800 (old) Saint on my 4X bike, and new XT on my XC bike. Both are rapid rise *GASP* and I love it. My shop has a 2009 Turner DHR with a full NEW SAINT group on it which I have demo'd at Whistler a few times this season and I must say it's the bomb. Maybe I don't ride hard enough, but I have only had 2 Deore level derailleurs detonate on me in the last 7 years of riding.
To recap: New Saint is awesome, but if you love X.0, leave us Shimano guys alone
To recap: New Saint is awesome, but if you love X.0, leave us Shimano guys alone
The new Saint shifter a der are really nice. They shift great, but XO is better. If this were the only consideration I'd run SRAM again, but it isn't. The shadow der is tucked out of the way enough to avoid the der killing hits that waste money. I went through 3 X9 mid cages in the time I've had my Saint. The X9 was a little better shifting, but also a one hit kill.
Run XO if you are smooth and want the best possible shifting..... and Saint if you like to smash your mech into everything and laugh about it
Run XO if you are smooth and want the best possible shifting..... and Saint if you like to smash your mech into everything and laugh about it
Som say crisp, I say clunky.
w/e floats your boat!
w/e floats your boat!
This happened to me after 3 weeks (tonnes of slop on the main pivot) and 6 weeks (tension spring gave up the ghost). Not ever been a problem on my 2 XT shadows.
XTR shifter + Shadow der = snappy shifts, better than the X0 i had last year. But i'll be back on SRAM as soon as my arm heals, unless shimano make a SS cage (not GS) caged XT.
Ill repeat it, sram is a real easy ****, plus its super precise, but nothing beats the endurance behind the saint... you wont break it, no way. I used the old saint for three straight seasons and it would still shift flawless. Plus the new one weighs a lot less.
Thank you! I couldn't agree more - SRAM feels clunky and chunky. Shimano feels precise and refined.
This year I changed from SRAM to Saint on my DH bike. X9 to Saint to be exact. What's up with having to take the shifter plate off on SRAM shifter to change the der cable? Lame design IMO. Saint shifter and derailer feel super solid and shift quickly and precisely. The shifter has a more positive feel than my XT and the stiffer spring in the saint der is a huge improvement over SRAM. I heart shimano. Oh and you can change between a normal mtn cassette to a roadie cassette with the Saint der. Sweeeeeet....
I love saint, i love mine, however, i havent actually owned a SRAM drivetrain, i work on them at work and can agree with the clunk you people like, but as far as i can tell, if set up right, they both work great.
Its funny you brought it up, but i have recently changed from x9 to the new saint.
And there is no real difference.. They feel the same to me. the only thing is i think the saint could take a few more hits than the SRAM, but thats it..
But i do think the X0 shifts crisper than the x9 or saint..
At the end of the day its how much money u want to spend.
And there is no real difference.. They feel the same to me. the only thing is i think the saint could take a few more hits than the SRAM, but thats it..
But i do think the X0 shifts crisper than the x9 or saint..
At the end of the day its how much money u want to spend.
Got a sick deal on a saint shifter and der from a friend so I'm going to give it a whirl. I've gathered from the posts that it feels close to x.9, feels a bit different than sram but not bad and is more durable than a sram. All things considered it may be a decent trade off of the overall feel for a bit more durability.
I'm just finishing up on one full year on XO coming from Shimano XTR. I really like the feel of the shifter, however I'm finding it gets out of adjustment more often than my old XTR. Just kind of sucks when I'm only a half a day through N* and it's already shifting like poo.
I think everybody should be forced to ride twist shifters with sawed off, wired on half grips and composite derailleurs with Sachs chains, billet 44 tooth chainrings, super soft pressed 7 speed cassettes and stuff like we had to in the past.
SRAM and Shimano both shift awesome if the cable is routed right. The feel is different on both. I can use either. With SRAM, you barely touch it and "pop", it's in the next gear instantly. Shimano transitions smoothly with gentle feedback at the lever and pedal. Both worlds better than the first 8-9 years of shifting hell we endured in the day of 4 brand drivetrains.
On my DH bike, there are times I like having that crazy fast shift of a SRAM, but at the same time I love the sense of rider control Shimano gives. The only favoritism I can show is that I like upshift and down panic shifts on Shimano better. That's because if you're in a race run, sometimes you can fire off 2-3 gears on SRAM without meaning to and bog yourself down. Shimano, you can feel it moving gear to gear in a more controlled fashion.
I run whatever i can get my hands on these days.
I switched from XT brakes and r derailer to the new saint stuff. The brakes are phenominal! nothing else comes close to the power or the feel. Ever one who has ridden the bike feels the same way. The derailer has been great, I like the heavier spring in it and it helps keep the chain snug. I haven't had any problems with the adjustment. Shifts well under power too.
I think everybody should be forced to ride twist shifters with sawed off, wired on half grips and composite derailleurs with Sachs chains, billet 44 tooth chainrings, super soft pressed 7 speed cassettes and stuff like we had to in the past.
SRAM and Shimano both shift awesome if the cable is routed right. The feel is different on both. I can use either. With SRAM, you barely touch it and "pop", it's in the next gear instantly. Shimano transitions smoothly with gentle feedback at the lever and pedal. Both worlds better than the first 8-9 years of shifting hell we endured in the day of 4 brand drivetrains.
On my DH bike, there are times I like having that crazy fast shift of a SRAM, but at the same time I love the sense of rider control Shimano gives. The only favoritism I can show is that I like upshift and down panic shifts on Shimano better. That's because if you're in a race run, sometimes you can fire off 2-3 gears on SRAM without meaning to and bog yourself down. Shimano, you can feel it moving gear to gear in a more controlled fashion.
I run whatever i can get my hands on these days.
I've been running X.O on my bike and Saint on a test bike. The saint brakes are amazing. The Saint derailer and shifter not quite as nice. The derailer still makes alot of noise. I've had it rattle loose several times. The shifter feel is ok, but not as smooth as the sram. It gets to the gear but it is pretty harsh getting there (Yes it is adjusted correctly). This was a bit of a shock for me as my last expereince with Shimano (XTR) was amazingly smooth. I was considering making a switch, but after trying the saint I'll be sticking with my X.O setup.
That was quick.
I hear you on loving x.o stuff i am the same way...i think i have nailed my bike setups and am pretty sure you can't get better stuff than the following:
X.0 Derail & Shifter
Saint Brakes & Levers
Saint Cranks
that setup never gives you problems end of story...
X.0 Derail & Shifter
Saint Brakes & Levers
Saint Cranks
that setup never gives you problems end of story...
I can't help but think this thread has a lot of commenters who imagine differences that aren't there, like the old kid's fairy tale "The Princess and the Pea." If you want to try something new, don't imagine that there's a huge difference. bizutch makes a good point, anyone who remembers how lousy derailleurs and shifters were 15 years ago would probably find this thread to be a whole lot of noise about nothing.
SRAM and Shimano look different and have different ways of operating, but to say that one feels cheap and the other is "more precise," that's nonsense.
And if you rip rear derailleurs off your bike, that's about line choice not the derailleur. Sheesh.
SRAM and Shimano look different and have different ways of operating, but to say that one feels cheap and the other is "more precise," that's nonsense.
And if you rip rear derailleurs off your bike, that's about line choice not the derailleur. Sheesh.
<second post for me>
Two reasons I went to Sram in teh first place.
Thumb Thumb shifting, and no lop in the cable routing.
Both of those are no longer an issue with SHimano. I started with SHimano and I can tell you by far, it has always lasted longer. I like how the Sram feels, works, ETC. At the same time, I just cannot justify running it on the DH bike anymore with as fast as I have been riding rock gardens lately. I cannot afford to keep replacing the Sram derailluers after three rides. Tight techy rock gardens are murder on Sram derailluers with how far they stick out from the bike.
I have my Hone that I got for ten bucks installed on the bike, and I am picking up my shifters today<by the way, anyone need a left side lx shifter?> While I will have the cable loop in the back, I will have thumb thumb shifting, so no need to remove the finger from teh brakes to shift. That, and the direct mounting system of the older style hone/saint is def going to hold up better than the sram system.
Two reasons I went to Sram in teh first place.
Thumb Thumb shifting, and no lop in the cable routing.
Both of those are no longer an issue with SHimano. I started with SHimano and I can tell you by far, it has always lasted longer. I like how the Sram feels, works, ETC. At the same time, I just cannot justify running it on the DH bike anymore with as fast as I have been riding rock gardens lately. I cannot afford to keep replacing the Sram derailluers after three rides. Tight techy rock gardens are murder on Sram derailluers with how far they stick out from the bike.
I have my Hone that I got for ten bucks installed on the bike, and I am picking up my shifters today<by the way, anyone need a left side lx shifter?> While I will have the cable loop in the back, I will have thumb thumb shifting, so no need to remove the finger from teh brakes to shift. That, and the direct mounting system of the older style hone/saint is def going to hold up better than the sram system.
Zark speaks nothing but truthThe new Saint shifter a der are really nice. They shift great, but XO is better. If this were the only consideration I'd run SRAM again, but it isn't. The shadow der is tucked out of the way enough to avoid the der killing hits that waste money. I went through 3 X9 mid cages in the time I've had my Saint. The X9 was a little better shifting, but also a one hit kill.
Run XO if you are smooth and want the best possible shifting..... and Saint if you like to smash your mech into everything and laugh about it
Well, I can officially say, I dislike the shimano shifting. I will post up a reveiw in a few weeks after I get some mile some miles on it. Hopefully the strength will make it worth the shifting