[Prettym1k3]

I would kick jonnie for ya but I am afraid of catching something, ha

forked was a blast, i putting together pics and report to post as we speak.

are you or todd racing the CCCX winter series?

Just wear protection, and then kick him.

Unfortunately, Todd's got a lot on his plate right now in his personal life, and I think cash flow is short on his end. He still has his Giant Trance and his 7point5, but he hasn't been out to ride recently. I do catch him online a lot.

As far as CCCX, I think I'm out this season as well. Got a wedding next year, along with a big bike that's in sore need of repair/rebuilding, and a new trail bike that's in need of riding and love. But ultimately, it's the fact that I work on Sundays from 9-5.

:-(

Sad, but true.

 

[gonefirefightin]

Just wear protection, and then kick him.

Unfortunately, Todd's got a lot on his plate right now in his personal life, and I think cash flow is short on his end. He still has his Giant Trance and his 7point5, but he hasn't been out to ride recently. I do catch him online a lot.

As far as CCCX, I think I'm out this season as well. Got a wedding next year, along with a big bike that's in sore need of repair/rebuilding, and a new trail bike that's in need of riding and love. But ultimately, it's the fact that I work on Sundays from 9-5.

:-(

Sad, but true.

wow, sucks to be you, lol

 

[rosenamedpoop]

Just wear protection, and then kick him.

Unfortunately, Todd's got a lot on his plate right now in his personal life, and I think cash flow is short on his end. He still has his Giant Trance and his 7point5, but he hasn't been out to ride recently. I do catch him online a lot.

As far as CCCX, I think I'm out this season as well. Got a wedding next year, along with a big bike that's in sore need of repair/rebuilding, and a new trail bike that's in need of riding and love. But ultimately, it's the fact that I work on Sundays from 9-5.

:-(

Sad, but true.

My friend, the only time getting married is a valid justification for not riding your bike on a weekend is if you're getting married that weekend. Next weekend you can see her before and after you ride. Jeez...do you want to get divorced?

 

[bdamschen]

I'm with DoubleDown on this one. X Fusion has been making a big effort to get their name out around here(here being bay area at least), but their forks don't seem to have anything you would count as an advantage over the other brands.

Sure it's great that their employees have lots of passion or that they're involved with lots of local events, but when it comes to seperating me from my money, I need more than a warm fuzzy feeling (just ask any little kid that comes to my door to try to sell magazines).

Why would I want to get a fork like this over a boxxer or a 888? Especially since I'll have to ditch the hub I have now, the front rotor I have now, buy a new rotor that fits and rebuild my wheel?

I'm not trying to hate on x fusion, in fact if I were them, I would be glad that I'm getting this sort of feedback while still in the prototype phase rather than after cranking out a few hundred production forks.

 

[rosenamedpoop]

Your point of view is strange to me. Why should a company have to have selling points above and beyond all others to even be considered. When they get their forks dialed in they should be of equal quality and performance to the big guys for less money. What's the problem?

 

[bdamschen]

If they're equal quality and performance, BUT I have to take extra steps to switch to them, such as getting rid of my current hub/rotor and lacing their hub to my rim and buying a new rotor (I confess I have no idea where to start looking for a four bolt rotor), why should I switch?

I am willing to jump through extra hoops if there's extra performance, but if it does the same thing as everyone else yet requires me to go through an extra PITA, why should I do that? It goes double because this is also a new company that's not assured to be around in a few years if I need support or replacement parts.

Any company that is trying to get their foot in the door of a market needs to have an edge to get themselves in. It doesn't matter if it's an edge in perfomance, quality, customer service or price, but it's gotta be something that fills a need that previously existed. Otherwise the only people you're going to get are those that switch just to have something different.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I have officially ridden the fork everywhere I could think of in the past week.

I ended up mounting the fork on a giant faith, since it was the only frame I had laying around didn't have a fork on it, and I would consider the faith that good all-around free ride bike.

I first wanted to test the bike on some singletrack, I have a 9 mile loop by my house that is fairly technical with high-speed sections and a few rock gardens. It's one of those trails of basically has it all in a 9 mile loop.

When I got to the parking lot I pulled off the bike and took a couple pictures for comparison to see what the angles and bike attitude is when the fork is minimum travel and maximum travel.



This is the fork at maximum travel

This is the fork at minimum travel

The wheelbase changes by about 6 inches between minimum and maximum travel height. I was really surprised at on what should difference the fork reacted in the two positions.

I first started off on the flow we singletrack but the fork compressed. This gave the fork about four to 5 inches of travel, at the bottom of a compression if you hit a root it would really lower the bike. There were times when my pedals scraped the ground it was so low. Since it's a dual ring bike I was able to climb all whole lot easier than before and the short technical sections were a lot easier with a shorter wheelbase.

When I came upon something that I would want 8 inches of travel for I would do a quick manual hit the travel of just button in the fork would spring out to 8 inches. The fork would suck up everything I could throw at it.

I ended up taking off the plastic guards because they were making noise against the fork tubes and I don't think they were needed anyways.

On Sunday I hit Northstar, and I would have to say I'm very impressed. The fork acted just like my 40 but I had the opportunity to drop my travel down for the dirt jumps and tight singletrack. Since most of the fork is adjustable by air compression and dampening it was really easy to tune the bike for where I was riding. I simply cared up the fork at the truck and during my first ride I let out enough to where I felt it was sufficient for the day.

I was a little bit skeptical at first about this fork but after writing it I've come to the conclusion that this fork is truly a fork for all needs. You can do cross-country singletrack, you can dirt jump, you can free ride, and it handles very well as an 8 inch race fork. The fork is very solid in the ruts very solid in the rocks and is fast enough on the high-speed compression that I don't need to worry about corners. The rebound is super easy to adjust the travel adjust mechanism is super simple and bomb proof. The fork has a lot of adjustability and is able to suit just about anyone's needs.

I would say truly it is a Swiss Army knife of forks.

 

[Winger]

the fork comes with...
hub, rotor and barstem mount

 

[gonefirefightin]

oh yeah, the bar mounts are pimp. you can adjust them anyway you want, forward back, it doesnt matter, plus it is all integrated into the top crown. i like it, since you wont have to buy a go ride or risse direct mount stem set up.

 

[bdamschen]

the fork comes with...
hub, rotor and barstem mount

Oh really? That almost changes everything (other than the PITA of rebuilding your wheel).

Are there plans for xfusion to release more of a race rather than all around fork? I would imagine that if they got rid of the travel adjust they could bring the weight down.

I would also want the axle to crown to be lower at max travel. firefightin's faith looks super raked out.

 

[Inclag]

Damn looks like a Risse Bigfoot.

 

[gonefirefightin]

the travel adjust weighs nothing, it is just a plastic button with two 4 inch air hoses. I kinda like being able to change travel on the fly. I am going to test it out in vegas this week and race the fork in monterey after that, it is a super d kind of course where a fork like this will be perfect. during the single tracks you can squash it down and rail, then when you have the jumps and drops at high speed you can press a button and poof have a matress.

not sure yet but I think I might swap out the 40 on the turner and give it a shot at north star races.

 

[Wilhelm]

Thank you for the ride report. Was the turning radius limited by the crown design sufficient for singletrack use? How is the responsiveness of the fork to small bumps and how does it "pump" while pedaling uphill out of the saddle at or near minimum travel setup position?

 

[gonefirefightin]

Thank you for the ride report. Was the turning radius limited by the crown design sufficient for singletrack use? How is the responsiveness of the fork to small bumps and how does it "pump" while pedaling uphill out of the saddle at or near minimum travel setup position?

the turning radius was actually better than my 40, and surprisingly the pedal pump was very minimal when in short travel. when the fork was at full travel it was about the same as the 40 but had better angle for descents. the small bumps (fast and slow) were handled very nicley and I would have to say it took whatever I threw at it and It felt very comfortable and carried its own value of confidence.

with this fork in the short travel I was able to do some trails type single track and get a very short turning radius for log switch backs with out having to lift a tire as I would on the turner.

 

[Wilhelm]

This sounds very nice. So I hope that the guys will give X-FUSION a real chance to get in the DH/FR fork business. IMO the versatility resp. the clever on the fly travel adjust as well as the adjustable and light weight handle bar mount of the fork are outstanding and very nice characteristics one will find only in the BIONICON fork portfolio too. What was your impression about the torsional stiffness in competition to your 40? Would you say that you did feel an increased torsional stiffness of the X-FUSION Delta 8 with it´s solid large diameter 35 mm axle in competition to other USD forks (for instance MANITOU Dorado, MARZOCCHI Shiver, WHITE BROS. Groove 180/200)?

 

[Winger]

Oh really? That almost changes everything (other than the PITA of rebuilding your wheel).

Are there plans for xfusion to release more of a race rather than all around fork? I would imagine that if they got rid of the travel adjust they could bring the weight down.

I would also want the axle to crown to be lower at max travel. firefightin's faith looks super raked out.

there are protos of a travel adjust button integated into the top of the left stantion. To give more bar clearance and to not have to ever worry about ripping the hose damage. Super clean and suddle.

 

[Wilhelm]

Interesting. However, to play with the bar mounted travel adjust button on a BIONICON Edison on the fly was very comfortable and quick. This construction gives you the opportunity to let both of your hands on the grips of the bar for full control everytime.

 

[djjohnr]

I'm with DoubleDown on this one. X Fusion has been making a big effort to get their name out around here(here being bay area at least), but their forks don't seem to have anything you would count as an advantage over the other brands.

Sure it's great that their employees have lots of passion or that they're involved with lots of local events, but when it comes to seperating me from my money, I need more than a warm fuzzy feeling (just ask any little kid that comes to my door to try to sell magazines).

Why would I want to get a fork like this over a boxxer or a 888? Especially since I'll have to ditch the hub I have now, the front rotor I have now, buy a new rotor that fits and rebuild my wheel?

I'm not trying to hate on x fusion, in fact if I were them, I would be glad that I'm getting this sort of feedback while still in the prototype phase rather than after cranking out a few hundred production forks.

From the looks of it here are the product features they're trying to hit-

Plush ride w/low stiction
Large adjustable travel range
Coil/Air spring combination in an adjustable travel design - fine tuning ability with coil suppleness?

Who knows how well they'll execute, but that seems like a reasonable feature set to try and take to market.

 

[Wilhelm]

This sounds very nice. So I hope that the guys will give X-FUSION a real chance to get in the DH/FR fork business. IMO the versatility resp. the clever on the fly travel adjust as well as the adjustable and light weight handle bar mount of the fork are outstanding and very nice characteristics one will find only in the BIONICON fork portfolio too. What was your impression about the torsional stiffness in competition to your 40? Would you say that you did feel an increased torsional stiffness of the X-FUSION Delta 8 with it´s solid large diameter 35 mm axle in competition to other USD forks (for instance MANITOU Dorado, MARZOCCHI Shiver, WHITE BROS. Groove 180/200)?

@gonefirefightin,
finally, can you tell us something about the "felt" torsional stiffness of the X-FUSION Delta 8 fork? However, do you think that the performance justifies the effort of introducing the proprietary hub? Besides, I like it, in particular the quick release.

 

[gonefirefightin]

super stiff.........I would say it is probably the stiffest 8 inch fork I have ridden, been on 40's , WC's, shivers, monster t's even rode a brink and a white bros. I was truly amazed. I think I am going to put the fork on my DHR so I can get even a better idea of what I am dealing with since I raced the DHR full time this year. My team mate mike also rode the fork today when we were at auburn and he has said the same thing. I truly think x fusion got it right this time and has got something truly unique. I would have never taken a bite unless the fork was given to me to ride. now that I have ridden I am not sure they are getting it back. by the way I will post my helmet cam footage of auburn later tonight.

by the way, I posted in the ride report that I had taken off the plastic stanchion guards since they chattered on the tubes, well I fixed that with some adhesive foam type strips in the inside of the guards. and then riding aubrun today I just took them off to see how dirty the stanchions got with out them. they really arent needed but i like the fork comes with them for those uber rocky/soupy days

here is a pic of the fork without the guards.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

gonefirefightin not to be a critic but as of yet you hove not found one bad thing about the fork. its just one LONG list of GREAT thing about the fork. while i would love to see another major player in the fork market (any market actually) there has to be something wrong that just is not dialed in yet. i mean its still a full fledge prototype. just for my sake give me the things that you also don't like about the fork. one thing i could think of right off the top of my head is the axle to crown height. in that first pic it look really tall (some one else also commented on it).

basically i like everything in proportion. i love new product like everyone else and get wrapped up in how its the best thing in the world. then when i find myself doing that i take a step back and really look at the good and the bad.

peace and the best of luck with the fork.

 

[gonefirefightin]

the things I dont like about it........

you have to unweight the fork in order to get it to go to full travel length. so if you are riding a trail you have to manual or wheelie for a second to get the fork to extend.

the travel adjust button is difficult to find a home on your bars if you run a full set up. if your not running a front derail. it should be fine

the rise of the tubes is a little too much, if the profile was a little lower you could bring the bars clear over and around the uppers if need be.

the guards arent needed so took them off

it is hard to get a heavy bend bar through the stem loops. if you want to change bars you have to peel every thing off one side of the bars to get it through, not like a normal stem where you can unbolt the whole works.

the big knobs on the axles should be more of a bolt instead of having to stick something through the holes and turning it.

thats about all the negs i can think of.

good call.

 

[Wilhelm]

@gonefirefightin,
would you say that you while riding became aware of differences in handling/performance between the new prototype X-FUSION Delta 8 and the 2007/2008 series version of the fork?

 

[gonefirefightin]

@gonefirefightin,
would you say that you while riding became aware of differences in handling/performance between the new prototype X-FUSION Delta 8 and the 2007/2008 series version of the fork?

huge difference in this latest version. the axle drop outs and forward placement, the crown set backs, steerer position.

all huge leaps forward for this fork, 4 times better than the original delta 8 on the website (wich i rode earlier in the year)

 

[Wilhelm]

Thanks, very impressive.

 

[rosenamedpoop]

Can you take a measure on the lowest possible axle to crown height in the full travel setting?

 

[Sir_Crackien]

gonefirefightin thank you for that post. those are very important thing to some people. like i said before best of luck to you and the fork. maybe we will have a new contender in the fork market

 

[-BB-]

The wheelbase changes by about 6 inches between minimum and maximum travel height. I was really surprised at on what should difference the fork reacted in the two positions..

6in?
I find that hard to believe. Even it you had a ZERO degree headtube angle, extending the fork by 3in would only result in a 3in wheelbase difference.

 

[Winger]

6in?
I find that hard to believe. Even it you had a ZERO degree headtube angle, extending the fork by 3in would only result in a 3in wheelbase difference.

I just measured it on a v10 and dropping it from 8 to the bottom which is abotu 4 1/2 only shortened the wheel base by 1 1/2 to 2 inches max

 

[PJivan]

i'm very interested about this fork... is stiff for an upsidedown but is a litle less stiff of a boxxer... so not as a 40s or 888
i try it at Eurobike in both stand, bionicon and x-fusion

 

[Hougham]

These are amazing forks. The only problem I have is getting good DH rotors for them. The good people at Hope have been a great help though.

 

[Hougham]

To be honest there has been and still are many good suspension out there that are not Fox, Manitou, RockShox or Marzocchi. Kowa, Showa, Techin, Magura, X fusion, Whitebrothers, Cane Creek, Foes, Pace, Bionicon, DT are just to name a few.

gonefirefightin not to be a critic but as of yet you hove not found one bad thing about the fork. its just one LONG list of GREAT thing about the fork. while i would love to see another major player in the fork market (any market actually) there has to be something wrong that just is not dialed in yet. i mean its still a full fledge prototype. just for my sake give me the things that you also don't like about the fork. one thing i could think of right off the top of my head is the axle to crown height. in that first pic it look really tall (some one else also commented on it).

basically i like everything in proportion. i love new product like everyone else and get wrapped up in how its the best thing in the world. then when i find myself doing that i take a step back and really look at the good and the bad.

peace and the best of luck with the fork.

 

[Jm_]

To be honest there has been and still are many good suspension out there that are not Fox, Manitou, RockShox or Marzocchi. Kowa, Showa, Techin, Magura, X fusion, Whitebrothers, Cane Creek, Foes, Pace, Bionicon, DT are just to name a few.

To be honest, I think you're overestimating some of these products.

Foes, crap for a long time. Overdamped curnutt shocks. Poor quality of travel compared to others. Maybe calling it "all out crap" is a little on the excessive side, but it never worked anywhere close as good as a DHX 5.0, and I had to wonder why I was lugging around the extra 2lbs of curnutt shock.

Bionicon? Yeah...I just demoed one last week. Sorry to say, their suspension is quite a bit behind the times. Again, it isn't crap, but it isn't that great either. A combination of pivot points and only one kind of shock kind if limits the capability. I rode an 8" whatever-the-DH-bike is called, and my turner 6 pack felt like it had more travel, and my 6 pack definitely had more traction in turns. The fork is pretty archaic, at moderate speed ranges when weighted it worked ok, but at other speed ranges it did not and got very harsh. It doesn't have a low and high speed damping circut, and the rep told me that high speed damping duties were handled by a spring (it's air-damped). In any case, both ends of the bike, the rear shock and fork, were far behind marzocchi, rockshox, and manitou. Due to Bionicon's choice of adjustable travel, there isn't a whole lot they can do, but the new oil-damping cart for their forks may help a great deal, at least get shimmed-damping on both ends of the bikes.

Kowa...heh, you do realize that they are pumping rod forks like the old Jr Ts and cheap marzocchis? I have the schematics for current models that I got from a rep.

Whitebrothers? Yeah, they've been trying for a long time. Trying to keep cartridges from exploding and trying to make a decent chassi that goes beyond the limitations of their CNC machines (like casted lowers).

You're right that there are others that have done pretty well, avalanche forks are solid with solid damping systems, stratos made the S8 which was pretty amazing-except for weight (but they killed themselves by never getting better chassis), the basic formula here is not that hard, but due to several factors most bike companies tend to screw it up without adequate design and execution. Look at what avalanche does, they stuff moto-x cartridge designs into the forks, designs that work extremely well, without funny travel adjust air whoop-de-doo designs and crazy spv-evo3 damping that just might finally work correctly for the 2023 riding season. When companies are set on trying to do crap like that, its no wonder that they often fall flat on their face. The territory that Rockshox and Marzocchi are pioneering right now is very delicate IMO, due to the fact that fork performance and reliability has to come before all these extra functions and extreme light weight. I hope stuff continues to get better, but these are actually companies that have enough $$$ and development to throw at the problem and come out with a good product (but not always).

Unfortunately, bionicon was exactly what I thought it would be, people are blown away by the travel adjust (that I didn't care for that much because it made me feel like I was trying to ride INTO the hill instead of up it) but the suspension is totally lackluster and subpar compared to what you can get on other bikes.

 

[Hougham]

I know plenty of people that would say the exact opposite about the Foes equipment.

Kowa are in no way just Marzocchis rebranded, I don’t know where you got that from?

OK some of the Whitebrothorthers may not be the most reliable forks out there, But you can say the same about other forks such as a lot of the foxs. Its virtually every day we get them with problems. Not to mention Manitou. I know plenty of people that will tell you how solid there WB forks have been over the more common forks they were using.

Most people I have talked to who ride them actually like them Bionicon. But then it sounds like they have all rode later forks than you. They have also all had backing when it came to setup.

There is no point just making sweeping statements that put others manufactures down like we are here. My point was give these manufactures a chance. Generally they are a lot better than what people give them credit for. Or at very least they have potential and there is no point just ripping them apart.

As for funding. Lust take a look at the background funding and support of many of these manufactures. Many are branches of big industry and even other suspension companies. Some are even backed by some of the top motor sport companies.

Just keep a open mined, you may get a good shock at what great products are out there. My personal favourite at the moment is the Cane Creek DH rear shox and the new Kowa forks. But I am giving the X fusion forks a try as we are thinking of supplying them. They have worked well for us so far.

 

[norbar]

wtf is techin? Can't find anything about it.

Giving a try to new companies can be good. I was using dnm usd-180(dual crown fork) for some time[even though I had horrible experience with their rear shox] and it wasn't so bad (well after some minor changes) for the price.

btw. Anyone tried Magura Wotan? It should be supper stiff for a sc.

 

[Hougham]

There stunning forks. Many say they are the best available now. There next to impossible to get in Europe though. I tried to get a container of them some time back to no avail. Take a look at there products http://www.tech-in.com/japan/product/index.htm

 

[Jm_]

Most people I have talked to who ride them actually like them Bionicon. But then it sounds like they have all rode later forks than you. They have also all had backing when it came to setup.

Uhh...I just rode the 08 stuff. Yes, we had backup with setup too.

 

[norbar]

Too bad I can't read japanease. Any1 rode them? Or they are just an amazing idea?

 

[EM-EFER]

I know plenty of people that would say the exact opposite about the Foes equipment.

Not me. I owned a 2007 F1 XTD Curnutt fork and was not impressed. The fork is very inconsistent and sucks at small bump/low speed compliance. I set that fork up EVERYway possible with even the help with the people at Foes. Ken from Foes and I both agreed that the XTD is for high speed type of riding due to the stable platform taking away from soaking up smaller hits. Mainly its for West coast type of riding. I now own a Boxxer WC and it destroyes the XTD fork in small hit and high speed bumps. The XTD is not made for east coast riding what so ever. Esp since the fork weighs 10 pounds. With the Curnutt on, this fork basically will turn your bike into a straight plow bike.

The rear shock also had really bad small bump compliance as well and never felt plush. Even with 60psi in the air camber it doesnt soak up any small hits due to the stable platform valving. Its great at high speed but in braking bumps the thing bounces around like a 18 year old whore. In order to make up for the **** valving you have to run 25psi or less in the rear tire at all times because you brake traction of the smaller stuff no matter what the rebound nor Air chamber PSI is set to.

The 2:1 Foes has a totally different feeling then the DHS Mono though. Much better small bump compliance and dampening due to the lower leverage ratio. I would consider one for my ride next season, but due to the Geometry / Height of the bottom bracket I am all set getting another Foes.

 

[deadatbirth]

Not me. I owned a 2007 F1 XTD Curnutt fork and was not impressed. The fork is very inconsistent and sucks at small bump/low speed compliance. I set that fork up EVERYway possible with even the help with the people at Foes. Ken from Foes and I both agreed that the XTD is for high speed type of riding due to the stable platform taking away from soaking up smaller hits. Mainly its for West coast type of riding. I now own a Boxxer WC and it destroyes the XTD fork in small hit and high speed bumps. The XTD is not made for east coast riding what so ever. Esp since the fork weighs 10 pounds. With the Curnutt on, this fork basically will turn your bike into a straight plow bike.

The rear shock also had really bad small bump compliance as well and never felt plush. Even with 60psi in the air camber it doesnt soak up any small hits due to the stable platform valving. Its great at high speed but in braking bumps the thing bounces around like a 18 year old whore. In order to make up for the **** valving you have to run 25psi or less in the rear tire at all times because you brake traction of the smaller stuff no matter what the rebound nor Air chamber PSI is set to.

The 2:1 Foes has a totally different feeling then the DHS Mono though. Much better small bump compliance and dampening due to the lower leverage ratio. I would consider one for my ride next season, but due to the Geometry / Height of the bottom bracket I am all set getting another Foes.

the 2:1 does have a completely different feel than the older Mono's. i had a 2000 DHS mono w/ a avy on it and it performed great. as much as i like my new 2:1, i have to say that im not totally impressed with the Curnutt. it is great to have a long stroke, but the smoothness of the shock and the way it feels is totally opposite from anything else ive ever ridden. id prefer to have another avy on it, but no one else makes a 5"stroke shock for bikes.
the bb is extremely low and having 170mm cranks is the wrong idea...
the problem with your XTD is the design of the shock/fork itself. I had a F1 fork and it performed flawlessly over small bumps, but that was a different design than the current Curnutt design.