[The Amish]

Well?

Hamas Assails U.S., Israeli `interference' By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer
Tue Feb 14, 4:09 PM ET



JERUSALEM - Hamas protested "interference" by the United States and Israel following reports Tuesday the nations were exploring ways to topple the militants' incoming government unless they renounced their violent ideology and recognized Israel's right to exist.



In Washington, the White House and the Israeli ambassador to the United States denied such a plot. The State Department said it was reviewing U.S. aid to the Palestinians and would make a decision within two weeks.

Exiled Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal said in Sudan his group had no plans to recognize Israel.

"There will be no recognition of Israel and there will be no security for the occupation and colonization forces," Mashaal told a rally in Khartoum. "Resistance will remain our strategic option."

The New York Times, citing U.S. and Israeli officials it did not identify, reported Tuesday that the United States and Israel were considering a campaign to starve the Palestinian Authority of cash so Palestinians would grow disillusioned and bring down a Hamas government.

Israeli security officials said they were looking at ways to force Hamas from power and were focusing on an economic squeeze that would prompt Palestinians to clamor for the return of President Mahmoud Abbas' ousted Fatah Party. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter with the media.

A Foreign Ministry official said Israel was threatening to dry up funding and isolate the Palestinians internationally in an effort to keep Hamas, which is committed to Israel's destruction, from taking power.

However, Israeli Ambassador Daniel Ayalon told The Associated Press: "There are no ongoing discussions with the U.S. designed to bring down the Palestinian government."

"There is no conspiracy between Israel and the United States to hurt the Palestinian people and there is no plan whatsoever to compromise the well-being of the Palestinian people," he said.

A Hamas official protested the reports, saying attempts to bring down a future Hamas government were hypocritical.

"This is ... a rejection of the democratic process, which the Americans are calling for day and night," incoming legislator Mushir al Masri said. "It's an interference and a collective punishment of our people because they practiced the democratic process in a transparent and honest way."

In Washington, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, "There's no plot." State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said he was "puzzled" by the report.

"We are not having conversations with the Israelis that we are not having with others, including the Quartet. There is no plan, there is no plot," he said.

He also reiterated the demands of the so-called Quartet of Mideast peace negotiators: that Hamas recognize Israel, renounce terror and accept past agreements reached by the Palestinians. The Quartet — which includes the United States, United Nations, European Union and Russia — backs the "road map" peace plan envisioning a Palestinian state side-by-side with Israel.

Hamas trounced Abbas' Fatah Party in legislative elections last month and is poised to form a new government in the coming weeks. Hamas swept to power on the strength of public dissatisfaction with Fatah's failure to eradicate lawlessness and corruption.

Abbas, elected separately last year, will remain in office and has been taking steps in recent days to curb the power of the incoming Hamas legislature.

Mashaal, on a regional tour to generate support for Hamas, said the group still hopes to form a national coalition government with other Palestinian factions, including Fatah.

"By God, Israel will not feel safe and will have no legitimacy," Mashaal said to shouts of "Allahu Akbar!" or "God is great!" while standing before a huge portrait of slain Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin.

"The world should commit Israel to withdraw from our territories and stop occupation and aggression and allow the Palestinian people to establish their independent state, with Jerusalem its capital."

Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Tuesday ruled out talks with the militant group.

"We will not negotiate and we will not deal with a Palestinian Authority that will be dominated wholly or partly by a terrorist organization," he said in comments to visiting Jewish American leaders.

Israel has said it will not deal with Hamas until it renounces violence, recognizes Israel's right to exist and accepts current agreements between Israel and the Palestinians.

He also called on Abbas to disarm Hamas.

The reports about U.S. and Israeli interest in undoing the results of Jan. 25 Palestinian elections came a day after the outgoing Fatah parliament empowered Abbas to set up a sympathetic court that would be able to veto Hamas legislation unchallenged.

Abbas also took back control of state-run Palestine TV and radio, denying Hamas yet another tool of power.

The idea of withholding aid is not new. Since Hamas' electoral victory, the West has been threatening to cut nearly $1 billion in annual aid to the Palestinians, though Russia's recent invitation to Hamas to visit Moscow, and France's support for the Russian approach, have cracked what was a united front.

Israel also has threatened to cut off monthly transfers to the Palestinians of about $50 million from taxes and customs it collects for them, once Hamas takes power. The new Palestinian parliament is to convene for its first session Saturday, and a new Cabinet is expected to be appointed within weeks.

What is new is the twist of forcing regime change by impoverishing the Palestinians even further.

Even with the Israeli tax transfers and Western aid, the Palestinian Authority is expected to run a $660 million budget deficit in 2006. Without the tax and aid, the Hamas government could be forced to impose widespread layoffs affecting hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.

Israel has other leverage on the Palestinian Authority, including its control of the movement of people and goods between the noncontiguous West Bank and Gaza Strip, and the entry of Palestinian workers into Israel.

Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat warned that "speaking of ousting Hamas could backfire."

For one thing, Palestinians could blame the United States and Israel — not Hamas — for their growing misery if funding is cut. Moreover, Hamas certainly would turn to the Muslim world and private donors to try to make up at least some of the Western shortfall.

___

AP Diplomatic Writer Barry Schweid in Washington contributed to this report.

 

[LordOpie]

I'm confused, they want the US to leave them alone, but they still want financial aid from the US?

 

[The Amish]

Sounds just like the rest of the world.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I'm confused, they want the US to leave them alone, but they still want financial aid from the US?

No, they want us to stop meddling in their political affairs.

We pushed for democracy, they elected Hamas. We can't very well punish them for picking incorrectly now, can we? That's the thing with democracy, other countries might pick people we don't like.

 

[LordOpie]

yeah, they elected democratically, but should we give aid to a country whose politics with disagree with?

 

[MikeD]

There's no right to receive aid or support, nor one preventing you from being isolated. Nor is there a rule against anyone, especially entities against whom you've declared war, examining strategies on how to deal with you. It's all a two-way street. (Now, the more power you have, the more one-way you can make it, but that's just a fact of power...and it has its own consequences, like facilitating the formation of groups like Hamas in the first place...)

 

[Old Man G Funk]

yeah, they elected democratically, but should we give aid to a country whose politics with disagree with?

We certainly shouldn't ask them to vote democratically and then punish them when they do. Pulling aid because they didn't 'vote the correct way' would be the worst thing we could do.

 

[dante]

has this sort of collective punishment EVER worked? how's cuba been lately? or let me put it a different way: Is there anything that our enemies could do to topple our government? If OPEC cut off our oil supply, would all you right-wing nutcases start voting Democrat? Maybe Vote for Hillary? Yeah right. So why do you think that collective punishment will work with the Palestinians?

 

[Transcend]

We certainly shouldn't ask them to vote democratically and then punish them when they do. Pulling aid because they didn't 'vote the correct way' would be the worst thing we could do.

I agree completely, BUT Hamas IS a known terrorist organization. It is indeed a sticky situation.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I agree completely, BUT Hamas IS a known terrorist organization. It is indeed a sticky situation.

Then take diplomatic means to deal with them if/when they take terrorist actions. Punishing the Palestinians for "bad" voting isn't going to make anything better.

 

[Changleen]

I agree completely, BUT Hamas IS a known terrorist organization. It is indeed a sticky situation.

One man's terrorist... Most of the Middle east (and a great deal of the rest of the world) view GW in the same way.

 

[Transcend]

One man's terrorist... Most of the Middle east (and a great deal of the rest of the world) view GW in the same way.

I agree, but i think encouraging suicide bombers is a pretty much globally accepted definition of terrorist organization (except for the plestinians).

 

[The Amish]

One man's terrorist... Most of the Middle east (and a great deal of the rest of the world) view GW in the same way.

Terrorists run around and kill people basically by stabing them in the back for lack of a better term. Theres no warning or indication just sponatneous death and destruction. Atleast george ****s you to your face

 

[Changleen]

Terrorists run around and kill people basically by stabing them in the back for lack of a better term. Theres no warning or indication just sponatneous death and destruction.

And this is different to being killed by a cruise missile, or a sniper round, or a tank shell how exactly?

 

[MikeD]

has this sort of collective punishment EVER worked?

To define withholding of aid (which is, by definition, a benefit; certainly not a right) as 'punishment' is indeed an odd view. Similarly, defining the act of planning for your enemy's actions or for acting against your enemy as 'punishment' is an irrational view. We can encourage democracy while refusing to aid our enemies...the two are not mutually exclusive.

Facilitating free and democratic choice is not mutually exclusive with taking action to prevent harm to yourself or your interests, or to pre-empt someone trying to screw with you. They're separate and distinct issues.

Promoting free choice doesn't require that you like or even accept the choices people make within that freedom.

On the flip side, if you don't want enemies, it sure helps to foster conditions in which certain people don't despise you. I'm equal-opportunity on the issue, and see lots of whining on both sides. Probably comes from people convinced that their righteousness comes from someplace besides their own goddamned opinion.

Righteousness is, as I've tried to define before, a mere 'fact of power.'

MD

 

[Silver]

Personally, I'd feel a lot better if the choice being presented was something other than "Corrupt Fatah and aid" or "Hamas (which is a de facto provider of many social services, Bush should love that...being a faith based inititative and all) and no aid plus active undermining."

It makes us look like maybe we're full of hot air when we talk about how important democracy is. Since we are, I'd at least like to see a little effort put into not making it so obvious. I'm still optimistic, pending the outcome of the next Israeli election.

 

[The Amish]

It never ceases to amaze me how these people will hate us with every fiber of their being when were some of the only people keeping them from starving to death. Oh well, looks like this is what happens when you bite the hand that feeds you. TEAR!

U.N. Warns of Palestinian Financial Crisis By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 47 minutes ago



JERUSALEM - The United Nations warned Tuesday that Israel and the West could unleash a crisis in Palestinian territories by withholding hundreds of millions of dollars in aid and transfers.



The U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs cautioned that an Israeli decision to cut off taxes and customs duties collected on behalf of the Palestinians could bring the Palestinian government to the brink of collapse by limiting its ability to provide basic services such as health, education, utilities, sanitation and policing.

The flow of money has been jeopardized by the Islamic militant group Hamas' landslide victory in Jan. 25 Palestinian elections. With the Palestinian Authority already strapped for cash, experts warn a cutoff could trigger a quick collapse.

Israel's Cabinet decided this month to stop sending the Palestinian Authority roughly $55 million in taxes and customs duties it collects on its behalf each month on imports and from Palestinian merchants and laborers working in Israel. The Jewish state considers Hamas, which is committed to Israel's destruction, a terrorist organization.

The United States and European Union, which also consider Hamas a terrorist organization, have threatened to cut off hundreds of millions of dollars in aid once a Hamas-led government is installed next month.

However, Washington has promised to keep humanitarian aid flowing.

At U.N. headquarters in New York, the world body's Mideast envoy Alvaro De Soto warned that bankrupting the Palestinian government could be seen as punishment for Hamas' election victory and could shake the already unstable peace process.

If the Palestinian Authority "is allowed to collapse or is sacrificed, then with it may go hopes of achieving a Palestinian state in a reasonable timeframe," De Soto told the Security Council.

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas designated Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh to form a government. Abbas told the Al-Jazeera satellite channel Tuesday that talks are in progress on a government that would include his Fatah party. Abbas also said the Hamas government would control some of the Palestinian security forces.

In violence Tuesday, a Palestinian stabbed two Israeli civilians, severely wounding one, at a West Bank intersection. Another civilian shot and wounded the attacker, the military said.

Hamas has killed hundreds of Israelis in suicide bombings and has refused since its victory to abandon calls for Israel's destruction.

The transfers collected by Israel cover a large portion of the salaries the Palestinian Authority pays to the 150,000 people on its payroll, the U.N. agency said Tuesday, citing figures that are slightly higher than official numbers.

Failure to pay salaries would strip an estimated 25 percent of the total Palestinian population of their livelihood because the salaries support extended families, the report said.

The agency — again citing figures higher than the official numbers — notes that nearly half of the people on the bloated Palestinian payroll are security personnel. If they are not paid, the U.N. report warned, that "could risk a rise in criminality, kidnapping and protection rackets."

In a letter to Mideast mediators this week, international envoy James Wolfensohn also sounded the alarm about the precarious state of the Palestinian Authority's finances.

Wolfensohn, the special envoy of the international peacemaking group known as the Quartet, warned that the authority was in danger of imminent financial collapse because of Israel's withholdings. He urged Arab nations and the World Bank to send a quick infusion of aid to the Palestinian government.

While Israel already has taken action, the West has been less forceful, wary of causing an economic collapse and chaos in Palestinian territories.

The European Union agreed Monday to provide $143 million in urgent aid for Palestinians before a Hamas government takes office. It kept silent on what it would do once Hamas assumes control.

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri welcomed the EU's decision and said it proved that American and Israeli efforts to stop international aid had failed.

______

AP writer Paul Burkhardt at the United Nations contributed to this report

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Israel's Cabinet decided this month to stop sending the Palestinian Authority roughly $55 million in taxes and customs duties it collects on its behalf each month on imports and from Palestinian merchants and laborers working in Israel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't sound like aid. This sounds like the Palestinians' money that Israel is withholding from the Palestinians.

 

[Westy]

This should work out well.
Hamas officials say Iran to fill funding void

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060228/ts_nm/mideast_palestinians_dc_7

 

[fluff]

It never ceases to amaze me how these people will hate us with every fiber of their being when were some of the only people keeping them from starving to death. Oh well, looks like this is what happens when you bite the hand that feeds you. TEAR!

The hand that feeds you? Only inasmuch as a jailer takes care of you. Why do you expect them to be grateful?

 

[The Amish]

SO now we jail these people. I would love to see what happened to the world if we cut off all humanitarian aid and just started taking care of our own for a change.

 

[Changleen]

SO now we jail these people. I would love to see what happened to the world if we cut off all humanitarian aid and just started taking care of our own for a change.

Do you not understand that by helping others, you are indirectly helping yourself?

If the US was the only big economy in the world, it wouldn't be. Do you see?

 

[LordOpie]

SO now we jail these people. I would love to see what happened to the world if we cut off all humanitarian aid and just started taking care of our own for a change.

or more to the point... here's your "get out of jail free" card. Go on, get out.

 

[Silver]

SO now we jail these people. I would love to see what happened to the world if we cut off all humanitarian aid and just started taking care of our own for a change.

The amount of humanitarian aid the US gives is dwarfed by the amount of destruction the US has a hand in all over the world.

Imagine if your sister got gang raped and beaten by a rock band, and then on the way out they threw a 20 at her unconscious body. That's just Central and South America, by the way....

 

[LordOpie]

are you calling my sister a whore?

 

[Changleen]

are you calling my sister a whore?

Skirt like that, she was asking for it.