After he got bucked on his Revolt, slipped the pedals and lost a potential World Champs gold.....sorry, I mean after he realized the benefits of being clipped in.Really, I thought Steve Smith was always on clips, when did he switch?
After he got bucked on his Revolt, slipped the pedals and lost a potential World Champs gold.....sorry, I mean after he realized the benefits of being clipped in.Really, I thought Steve Smith was always on clips, when did he switch?
Wasn't DW stating, that Hill went instantly about 2-3 seconds faster with the Sunday when they introduced it?
They rode it back to back with the old frame (forgot the name) to see, if the advantage in frame design was really that big.
The difference between what you just made up and what Monarch said is that in his scenario someone would have measured the difference with a stopwatch. If someone takes the time to make a tangible, numerically quantifiable comparison and it gets written off as 'marketing' then there's really just no hope left for us.Sure. Probably Specialized also claims he got 10 secs faster on the Demo after he switched to that. It is called marketing!
No one actually said that. No one said frame design 'alone'.To say the frame design alone has a big impoact on how fast a bike can be
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Udi again.No one actually said that. No one said frame design 'alone'.
I am nominating you for BDIU. Someone call the intergalactic committee.
I got him.You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Udi again.
He was already on clips in "Seasons". But switched back and forth since then.Really, I thought Steve Smith was always on clips, when did he switch?
The difference between what you just made up and what Monarch said is that in his scenario someone would have measured the difference with a stopwatch. If someone takes the time to make a tangible, numerically quantifiable comparison and it gets written off as 'marketing' then there's really just no hope left for us.
Having ridden an SGS and a Sunday as well as the other alternatives back in that time period, and considering that DW's creation was actually somewhat revolutionary in its acceleration and geometry characteristics, I don't think a few seconds of difference is really that hard to believe.
No one actually said that. No one said frame design 'alone'.
I am nominating you for BDIU. Someone call the intergalactic committee.
The difference between what I made up and what DW said is not as big as you like to believe. You know as little as I do on how DW got that data. One run, 100 runs, variety of courses, same shocks/forks etc.? And it comes from a guy closely associated with both designs. Of course a new design will be faster, why should he have switched to it if not?The difference between what you just made up and what Monarch said is that in his scenario someone would have measured the difference with a stopwatch. If someone takes the time to make a tangible, numerically quantifiable comparison and it gets written off as 'marketing' then there's really just no hope left for us.
Stevie has been full time clips during race season for a long time. Flats when he is playing at home. When it's go time, it's all clips all the time.He was already on clips in "Seasons". But switched back and forth since then.
What data do you have to back that up? You seem to be passing off your personal opinion as fact here.The difference between what I made up and what DW said is not as big as you like to believe.
Hey, that's between you and Dave! TMI.The difference between what I made up and what DW said is not as big as you like to believe.
So Worlds is not go time? Looks like flats to me:Stevie has been full time clips during race season for a long time. Flats when he is playing at home. When it's go time, it's all clips all the time.
So Worlds is not go time? Looks like flats to me:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/steve-smith-interview-2010.html
We are talking about different things here. One is if a statement of a marketing guy can be trusted and the other is if a Sunday is faster than a SGS.I'm not claiming the time difference is real or exact - indeed I know as little as you - but like I said, having ridden both of those bikes, I find it reasonable to believe that there would have been a difference in times. Furthermore like norbar pointed out, most bikes were not as advanced in that era, thus more significant gains were easily made compared to today (8 years later).
What Fraser meant was ever since the start of 2011, before that it was both, and before that it was clips. Where's Kidwoo to tell us how important this is?So Worlds is not go time? Looks like flats to me:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/steve-smith-interview-2010.html
I did. And I said 2010 Worlds! If you would have bothered to take a look at the link:It IS go time:
Do some research before posting.
First: I think you miss the difference. John P. is still liked, people just laughed because yeti guys spoke about it over and over again and speedtrap is not final time so it's not as relevant. Still if it wasn't as overused probably no one would care. Also it's not like people don't think plowy bikes are faster over the rough, they just found the sentence funny. Tollwut guy got **** because what he was posting was just BS. Marketing or not (He was a fan not the owner). I think you missed the point here being part of the "we are not sheep" movement. People tend to trust marketing statements if they seem reasonable. They tend to laugh if they are funny and if they are bs they will call that bs. It's not that DW is hold on a pedestal, he just seems to be pretty reasonable most of the time.We are talking about different things here. One is if a statement of a marketing guy can be trusted and the other is if a Sunday is faster than a SGS.
First thing: For me it is a difference if some reputable member on here gives a fair review of different components he has tested (like you often do) or if someone associated with a brand (like DW) claims things without revealing the experimental setup. And it puzzles me that people are more likely to believe things DW says than any other marketing guy. Wasn't John P trying to make a connection between the rail suspension and speed trap times from the South African WC and got sh!t for that? Or what about that guy with the Tollwut?
Second: I am not arguing that the Sunday is a way better bike than the SGS. It might well be 8 secs faster on any course. But if you make the claim, and especially as a person associated with a company, then please show me the experimental setup, the results and let me draw my own conclusions. And not throw a number out and never back it up.
Oh, sorry about that. I just thought we were talking about this year.I did. And I said 2010 Worlds! If you would have bothered to take a look at the link:
Stevie Worlds MSA
I have seen multiple people first hand destroy the rest of the field on prototype Sundays back in 2004. It's not marketing but a legit design. George Ryan destroyed the pro class at platty 2 months in a row riding a Sunday in the fall of 2004. He usually was lucky to make top 3 prior to the Sunday. Bryn Atkinson did the same when he rode there on his Sunday. Dante and Ska Todd also put up better than normal results when they were testing the bike. That is enough proof for me. But you can keep going full retard and conspiracy theory on frame design ect.The difference between what I made up and what DW said is not as big as you like to believe. You know as little as I do on how DW got that data. One run, 100 runs, variety of courses, same shocks/forks etc.? And it comes from a guy closely associated with both designs. Of course a new design will be faster, why should he have switched to it if not?
Independent verification of his claims are needed. Same as with any other info provided by the companies selling a product. Or do you believe claimed weights?
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tabletop84 again.
totally wrong... according to "win on sunday sell on monday" nascar etiquette we all have to storm devinci dealers this week.hahahahaha!
Nascar fan mentality!
Ha, laugh if you want to, but that $hit works on people in this sport too.totally wrong... according to "win on sunday sell on monday" nascar etiquette we all have to storm devinci dealers this week.
More like he made people realise demo was a race worthy bike for a while but without him people didn't belive spec.never claimed it does not work, the fact that people are still paying rather high rates for used sundays speaks for itself... and the dude made people think the demo is a race worthy bike way before that actually was the case
See, now you provide data that makes this claim more believable.I have seen multiple people first hand destroy the rest of the field on prototype Sundays back in 2004. It's not marketing but a legit design. George Ryan destroyed the pro class at platty 2 months in a row riding a Sunday in the fall of 2004. He usually was lucky to make top 3 prior to the Sunday. Bryn Atkinson did the same when he rode there on his Sunday. Dante and Ska Todd also put up better than normal results when they were testing the bike. That is enough proof for me. But you can keep going full retard and conspiracy theory on frame design ect.
You're building a straw man here though, can't you see that? DW never even posted in this thread, someone just shared a completely reasonable fact / claim from EIGHT years ago, and you called it out as marketing BS. Like norbar pointed out, you're the only one who seems to care - maybe ask the man himself before calling him out?if someone associated with a brand (like DW) claims things without revealing the experimental setup. And it puzzles me that people are more likely to believe things DW says than any other marketing guy. But if you make the claim, and especially as a person associated with a company, then please show me the experimental setup, the results and let me draw my own conclusions. And not throw a number out and never back it up.
When one got caught in his kickstand.When did he switch over from powergrips?
Before the Sam Hill / Jacy influenced Demo, it was a TERRIBLE race bike. Some of the worst geometry going in fact.More like he made people realise demo was a race worthy bike for a while but without him people didn't belive spec.
Its not a boot, but a linear potentiometer. It measures distance vs time. Ala velocity and acceleration.Why does the fork on that Sunday have a boot on?
Oh, I don't know about terrible... I'm still quite liking my 2008 Demo 8. Maybe the first models, but they were definitely refining them right from the beginning...Before the Sam Hill / Jacy influenced Demo, it was a TERRIBLE race bike. Some of the worst geometry going in fact.
It was a bit outdated in 09 but when that iteration was introduced it wasn't any worse than the competition. 65 ha, 14.7'' bb and the rest was similar to the 2010. It seems bad now but in 07 it wasn't really horrible.Before the Sam Hill / Jacy influenced Demo, it was a TERRIBLE race bike. Some of the worst geometry going in fact.