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Apartment 12-J, or how I learned to loathe roaches

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,423
7,805
We got the keys to a new-to-us, bigger apartment in the same building on the hospital campus on Friday. Although we were psyched initially, we finished moving back into our old apartment today, on Monday.

Why?

In one word: roaches. In many words:

After picking up the keys during the day on Friday I wasn't able to actually spend more than 5 minutes in the new apartment until noon on Saturday secondary to my work/call schedule. Starting at noon on Saturday I slaved away for several hours moving in furniture and about half of our worldly possessions. This was no mean feat as I did it solo (except for the washing machine!), it was 80+ degrees, and the apartment is a split-level on the 2nd and 3rd floors, no elevator and a narrow stairwell, of course.

When things went south was when I moved our dishwasher into the kitchen. Then I discovered that there were roaches. A lot of them, in fact, and with a particular focus around the refrigerator. I pulled it out to reconnoiter and was aghast to find about a solid inch of fetid, rotting organic material positively teeming with roaches. I looked a bit further and found that the stove was also rich with rotting material, and the area behind the stove was nearly as disgusting. Exploring further yet revealed that a leaky sink had caused all manner of mold and rotten wood in the under-sink cabinets, and that the floor tiling under the fridge and stove was either missing or gone.

Lovely.

Then night fell, and that's when the roaches really came out. All over the walls. All over the ceiling. All over the cabinets and countertops. Absolutely disgusting, it was.

I went for the nuclear option, or the "nuke 'em from space" option, more precisely: a 1:30 AM run to the drug store yielded an armful of anti-roach room fumigators. Two rounds of fumigation, a lot of scraping of organic material from the floor, and several hours later yielded the below images, with dead roaches galore, a behind-fridge area still revolting despite being much, much cleaner than its initial presentation, and the most vile natural gas line hookup behind the stove that I've ever had the pleasure of seeing.

Without further ado, the photos:



Those dots are mostly dead roaches following our two fumigation attempts. Don't worry, there were/are plenty of live ones, too.


Hole in wall underneath downstairs A/C unit suggests at structural problems that would cause or at least exacerbate pest problems.


All manner of fuzzy stuff dead and alive on the bottom vent of one of the upstairs A/C units.


Leaky sink leads to rotten, festering under-sink-cabinet wood.


The stove was gross. Here's the side.


A look at the top and left side burners of the filthy stove.


Right side of stove. Pilot light won't stay on. That black, caked on stuff is partly burnt-beyond-recognition food, partly roach carcasses.


The area behind/underneath the stove was apparently a favored place to dump all manner of trash. Note lack of floor tiling leading to more rot and infestation.


Incredibly foul and crusty gas line to the stove.


This is after cleaning up a veritable roach colony centered on this area. There was about 1" thick rotting organic material + roaches near the top-left corner initially. Note signs of rot + misplaced/loose tiles.



Foulness within freezer and refrigerator shouldn't even be surprising at this point.


All of our stuff moved out of the roach-infested apartment ready for sorting into bug spray-treatment + packing, laundry, or trash queues.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,839
15
So Cal
Didn't you look at the apartment before you rented/accepted it?

That's some pretty nasty stuff there. Hope it all gets worked out quickly for you.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,423
7,805
Oh, we're not moving in. I didn't sign anything, I didn't pay anything, I just picked up a key with a verbal commitment. Our stuff is all out of there, whatever clothes were there are being bug sprayed and rewashed, and the key is being returned tomorrow.

Here's the letter I sent off just now to the housing director, the academic affairs administrative contact, and copied to my residency program director:

[housing director], [administrative contact person], (cced to [program director])

I took the time to document a few of the many problems with unit 12-J, and the photos and their descriptions can be found at the following link:

http://tinyurl.com/apartment12J

After further exploration and documentation (see above) of the extent of the roach infestation and other problems in unit 12-J we have decided that we will not be moving into that unit at all. We have removed all of our belongings from it and will return the key to [the housing director] as soon as possible. We will be remaining in unit 9-J, our current/old apartment, for the foreseeable future.

Off the top of my head, I feel that the following things need to be done to 12-J so that the unit is habitable by someone else in the future (I clearly don't think it's fit for habitation now):

1) Fix holes in walls around A/C unit downstairs and around gas line for stove
2) Redo flooring in kitchen, as the tiles beneath the stove and refrigerator are missing or rotting, with a visible predominance of roaches in the kitchen compared to other rooms
3) Fix leaking kitchen sink, as the wood underneath it is perpetually wet and rotting
4) Thoroughly clean or, preferably, replace stove and refrigerator. The stove's pilot lights won't stay on, by the way.
5) Fumigate the place several times. We took the initiative to fumigate the place ourselves twice after discovering the roach problem, and there are still many, many live roaches and other insects in the apartment.
6) Finish repainting the apartment: perhaps due to being disgusted by the roaches, the painters never finished repainting the kitchen, which still is 1/4 green in patches.
7) Thoroughly clean the bathroom, as the grout is black and the tub mottled grey. We removed many dead roaches, but there may be more dead roaches in there by now.

I realize that there's always an element of cleaning that new tenants are expected to perform when moving into a new-to-them apartment, but I think that dealing with the the level of filth and roach infestation in 12-J is beyond what could be expected from anyone.

Thanks for your patience in reading this, and I do encourage you to look at the photos documenting the above problems: http://tinyurl.com/apartment12J

-Toshi Clark, R-2/PGY-3 radiology resident
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,512
20,312
Sleazattle
I learned that lesson in the last apartment I lived in. It was actually clean but being connected with other tenants the nukular option was never successful longer than it took the neighbor's roaches to move in. Will never ever rent anything that shares a wall with anyone else.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Doesn't it make you morbidly curious to put on hazmat suit and meet the previous tenants?

But I must admit I don't follow the mechanics of all of this...is this on-campus housing? or related to the campus? But you unit numbers, don't sound that far apart...9-J vs 12-J. How is there night and day difference? Per your letter, same landlord right?
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
the letter said:
I realize that there's always an element of cleaning that new tenants are expected to perform when moving into a new-to-them apartment, but I think that dealing with the the level of filth and roach infestation in 12-J is beyond what could be expected from anyone.
As an FYI, I didn't have to clean any of the 3 apts I've leased (1 illegal, 1 legal and privately rented, 1 legal and company rented). Each landlord held a security deposit that would be used to clean the apt if we left it in anything other than PRISTINE condition.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
That's filthy. You went above and beyond anything I would have done. Even if I got my stuff in there, I would have immediately went to the step where everything was outside and not even dealt with it. A place has to be pretty unkempt for a long time to look like that....
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,083
24,611
media blackout
That's filthy. You went above and beyond anything I would have done. Even if I got my stuff in there, I would have immediately went to the step where everything was outside and not even dealt with it. A place has to be pretty unkempt for a long time to look like that....
seriously. I would look into demanding compensation for my personal belongings that were damaged beyond repair.

Can you check with the city health department and get the unit inspected? When a unit is that bad I question whether or not its even legally inhabitable.


edit: looking closer at some of those pics, there might be black mold as well. Which is a DEFINITE no-no.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
seriously. I would look into demanding compensation for my personal belongings that were damaged beyond repair.

Can you check with the city health department and get the unit inspected? When a unit is that bad I question whether or not its even legally inhabitable.


edit: looking closer at some of those pics, there might be black mold as well. Which is a DEFINITE no-no.
Agreed. I would throw them under the proverbial bus that is the health department out of principle alone.

Mold of any kind these days is enough to have the health dept crawling up their butts. Especially for student housing...most health inspectors have a hard on for that kind of stuff.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,083
24,611
media blackout
Agreed. I would throw them under the proverbial bus that is the health department out of principle alone.

Mold of any kind these days is enough to have the health dept crawling up their butts. Especially for student housing...most health inspectors have a hard on for that kind of stuff.
Toshi has never come across as a vengeful kind of guy, but I do agree that threat of legal action would definitely light a fire under the butts of those responsible for the repair of this unit.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,423
7,805
The link in your letter should point to this thread. :)
nice way of promoting your blog with those two links in the letter ;)
I wanted to lay out the photos linearly on a web page instead of pointing them towards the toshiclark.com gallery where the photos are hosted, as I don't trust old people to be able to click through multiple images. The blog seemed cleaner and more professional than linking to a vB forum thread. :D
Doesn't it make you morbidly curious to put on hazmat suit and meet the previous tenants?

But I must admit I don't follow the mechanics of all of this...is this on-campus housing? or related to the campus? But you unit numbers, don't sound that far apart...9-J vs 12-J. How is there night and day difference? Per your letter, same landlord right?
"On-campus" housing, yes, on the hospital grounds, run (not very well, apparently) by the hospital maintenance staff. Buildings were built around 1972 and were apparently nice back then and have been gradually left to decay since then.

J is the building. Numbers are somewhat arbitrary but these two apartments are indeed close to each other: we share a wall but the filthy one is the 2nd and 3rd story whereas our smaller, 1-bedroom (but clean) apartment is on the ground/1st floor.

As for the other suggestions I'll mull over notifying the health department.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,423
7,805
Who would have suspected our resident doc would live in a tiny, squalid apartment?
I knew the resident housing on the hospital grounds wouldn't have the best maintenance but assumed that our clean, insect-free apartment was the rule rather than the exception. How wrong I was…

In general I'm willing to trade a bit of space for a shorter commute, and one can't get much shorter than 0.3 miles on foot (save for you work at home slobs sitting there now in your stained boxers :D), but knowing that I share a wall with the filthy apartment in the photos has inspired the wife and I to look into renting something off-campus.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,839
15
So Cal
I knew the resident housing on the hospital grounds wouldn't have the best maintenance but assumed that our clean, insect-free apartment was the rule rather than the exception. How wrong I was…
When I was working in the IT dept at a hospital I saw a lot of doctors offices. Most of them looked like that apartment. :p Well maybe not that bad but I was always amazed at how cluttered their offices were.
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
As for the other suggestions I'll mull over notifying the health department.
Toshi, it sounds like you aren't a vengeful guy and like to give people an opportunity to explain themselves, but this is unacceptable. That whole building needs to be reported to the health department TODAY! Like jonkranked mentioned, black mold will travel. If that apartment is the source, your little abode you are in now is next no matter how clean you keep it. That stuff travels and infects everything, and is super hard to kill. For all you know, it could already be in your vents...:eek:
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,839
15
So Cal
Toshi, it sounds like you aren't a vengeful guy and like to give people an opportunity to explain themselves, but this is unacceptable. That whole building needs to be reported to the health department TODAY! Like jonkranked mentioned, black mold will travel. If that apartment is the source, your little abode you are in now is next no matter how clean you keep it. That stuff travels and infects everything, and is super hard to kill. For all you know, it could already be in your vents...:eek:
:thumb::thumb::thumb:

Report them Toshi. For the good of everyone who lives in that building.

If I knew that my doc lived in squalor like that I would ask for another doctor.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,423
7,805
Ok, I will call in a violation/complaint to the county housing people tomorrow.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,839
15
So Cal
Ok, I will call in a violation/complaint to the county housing people tomorrow.
Call it in? Man, you should go in there like Neo, guns a blazin!!!!! They'll search you as you go in and you'll open your white lab coat and have guns and scalpels hangin there. Yee haw! Blow the place up and then turn slowly around and say, "There is no spoon". :thumb:





(Sorry. I'm bored at work :p )
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
This jumped out t me immediately, but I thought I'd see if anyone else picked up on it....but apparently no-one else has...

.....
And, just as he felt he was getting nowhere,
And almost about to give up in despair,
He suddenly burst through a door and that Mayor
Discovered one shirker! Quite hidden away
In the Fairfax Apartments (Apartment 12-J)
A very small, very small shirker named Jo-Jo
was standing, just standing, and bouncing a Yo-Yo!
Not making a sound! Not a yipp! Not a chirp!
And the Mayor rushed inside and he grabbed the young twerp!
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
In general I'm willing to trade a bit of space for a shorter commute, and one can't get much shorter than 0.3 miles on foot (save for you work at home slobs sitting there now in your stained boxers :D), but knowing that I share a wall with the filthy apartment in the photos has inspired the wife and I to look into renting something off-campus.
Indeed...because if you're in the same building...those roaches are there...just because they've got a good thing going in 12J...you might not have seen them. But if they DO clean 12J then they will be looking for somewhere else to be....I'd be very surprised if they didn't start appearing in your clean place..
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Post up what goes down. The stuff going on in those pics is all sorts of wrong and it's a dis-service to everyone else in that building to not force them to do anything about it. Like MMike said, all those insects have a good thing going in that apartment, but if they come through and clean in there, they will just move. With the amount of insects in there, I would find it very hard to believe they are not all trhoughout that structure and something more in depth needs to be done. You don't seem like a guy to stir the pot just for ****s and giggles, but think of the health aspects of everyone (including yourself) in that apartment block. It's just unsanitary. Personally, I wouldn't move back into the old apartment if it's in the same unit.
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
Personally, I wouldn't move back into the old apartment if it's in the same unit.
This thread has really got me thinking about my own place. I live in an apartment building with 12 units. As of right now, four or five of them are vacant and have been for a couple years. Every now and then I will have a strange and/or scary insect/spider and once a cockroach appear. Even though my place is spotless (little bit of OCD goin on over here) I wonder if they are coming from somewhere else in the building. Kinda creepy to imagine that the apartment next door could be 12-J.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Common walls are a biatch. You can clean all you want, but all those little critters are chillin in 12J and will keep coming. It's one thing to drop food or something and have a trail of ants the next morning....it's something entirely different in those pics....especially for housing maintained by a school....

Nobody expects wood floors and granite countertops in a school apartment, but non-squalor would be nice...particularly at a med school..no?
 
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Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,423
7,805
kazlx, this isn't a med school, it's a teaching hospital. The distinction is that the people living out back, like me, are MDs.

An update on the general situation: the hospital group CEO saw the photos and was dismayed enough that he ordered all on-campus resident housing to be shut down as of July 1, 2011. (To do so before then would involve kicking out people from housing in the middle of the busy academic year.) After that point they will be torn down, new housing (already planned for hazy future) will be erected, and the hospital will contract with a local real estate company to try to place residents into local housing.

As for me, I'm getting the hell out of here well before then, as soon as I can, and am actively looking for local and not so local small house/medium apartment rentals. I'm willing to sacrifice some commute time to distance myself from the squalor.