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Avalanche Monarch Upgrade

Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
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May 23, 2002
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Does anybody have any time on the Avalanche Monarch Upgrade? Any sciencey guys (@Udi ) know if it's a fundamental improvement on the regular damper?

I like the spring curve of my shock but I would like more low speed compression in open and more in trail mode. Or less in trail mode and less in full lock. I can't externally adjust it, but having the option to add in a little more LSC for regular trails would be awesome, and feeding in even more than that for smoother trails or fireroads would be great too. I try not to ride pavement, so lockout isn't that big a deal.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,065
14,714
where the trails are
which tune do you have now?
I have the M/M and I'd like LESS compression in open and trail modes.

RS should mimic the Charger in their Pike: 10-12 clicks of LSC in open, plus trail and firm settings.
Cause man I'll tell you, I'm loving the Pike, but the Monarch ... not-so-much.
 
Kanye West

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,741
473
Thicker oil, remove half of the comp shims and the preload ring if it has one.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,065
14,714
where the trails are
There is a good thread on emptybeer about modifying this damper complete with disassembled pics, shim stack configurations and individual shim specs, trial and error notes, etc. I'm considering trying something (maybe not DIY) but never tore apart a rear damper before and don't want to destroy it in the process.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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May 23, 2002
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I'm not sure I'm talented enough to break down the damper and reassemble it correctly. I was pretty excited when I removed the outer air can to add some volume rings this weekend.

The only shocks that fit this bike are tiny little ones, like the Monarch and FOX float. I can't do an X2 nor CCDB nor any form of coil. The monarch feels pretty good and smooth, but I'd like that same composure that my 36 has.

I'll have to re-confirm the factory tune on the shock. It's a DW bike, so they like to do the low compression tune and mid rebound usually.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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Sandwich said:
I'm not sure I'm talented enough to break down the damper and reassemble it correctly. I was pretty excited when I removed the outer air can to add some volume rings this weekend.

The only shocks that fit this bike are tiny little ones, like the Monarch and FOX float. I can't do an X2 nor CCDB nor any form of coil. The monarch feels pretty good and smooth, but I'd like that same composure that my 36 has.

I'll have to re-confirm the factory tune on the shock. It's a DW bike, so they like to do the low compression tune and mid rebound usually.
Click to expand...
dude, i've successfully worked on shocks. no excuses.
 
StiHacka

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
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Sandwich said:
I'm not sure I'm talented enough to break down the damper and reassemble it correctly. I was pretty excited when I removed the outer air can to add some volume rings this weekend.
Click to expand...
Easy peasy as long as you remember to plug the right hole when pouring the oil back in. :busted:
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
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I love the middle setting on the monarch for low speed compression support/chassis stability, but the high speed is too restricted when using it. I'm going to send mine off to Avalalche this week to have it tuned. The rebound is also poor: "rapid recovery" is not, at least when the high speed rebound stack is heavy as shit, I have to run about 5 clicks of rebound, otherwise it packs like mad.
 
Kanye West

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,741
473
Wtf pressures are you guys running in these things to need rebound damping that light? Like 100psi? I have 175psi in mine and I think I have the rebound set at like 5 or 6 clicks out from closed. It's an "ML" tune, whatever that means.
 
Nick

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,065
14,714
where the trails are
Hacktastic said:
It's an "ML" tune, whatever that means
Click to expand...
Medium Compression / Low Rebound (if i'm not mistaken)
What I'd like to end up with is equal to a L/M. I think I can make that happen. (or ditch it altogether to somebody with a frame that benefits from the higher compression stack)
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
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Yeah, with a ML tune you probably have to run a lot of rebound, but keep in mind all you are usually adjusting is the low-speed rebound bleed. Good for keeping the wheel on the ground during g-outs and other low-speed events, but the tune is for the high speed generally, and if that's not close, we have to try and make it up by allowing more bleed through the low speed, which makes for a hella bouncy shock.

The RC4 is typical fox so far, pretty bouncy, pretty wide-open low-speed compression with good rebound characteristics, but still pretty bouncy. Would like more low-speed support, like the middle position with the Monarch+. I'll play with the RC4, but the monarch is off to tune.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
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May 23, 2002
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Hacktastic said:
Wtf pressures are you guys running in these things to need rebound damping that light? Like 100psi? I have 175psi in mine and I think I have the rebound set at like 5 or 6 clicks out from closed. It's an "ML" tune, whatever that means.
Click to expand...
I'm on 250psi with three rubber bands in the can. 210lb.

One of the reasons I ask about the avy setup is that my shock started making squishy noises lately, and my rebound setting went from about mid-range to two clicks in with the same feel. In fact, I started a ride with a happy setup and ended it noticing that my shock was super slow. It may be time for a rebuild, which looks like $150 for a normal deal. The avalanche kit adds just a little money on top of that, but I don't know if it helps.

I would consider switching to a fox though, #neverSRAM
 
StiHacka

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
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Squishy noises and lack of damping at the top == loss of oil. Can you warranty it? If not, a rebuild (refill) should be simple, I've done that for the same reason on my Monarch+ RC3.
 
amishmatt

amishmatt

Turbo Monkey
Sep 21, 2005
1,264
397
Lancaster, PA
@Sandwich: I just had my RT3 tuned by Avalanche for my Spitfire V2. Only one ride so far, but I'm happy with the results.

I was skeptical about running it in the pedal mode as he recommends, since I always ran it open before, but it feels great in pedal now. It's more supportive, while feeling smoother and plusher at the same time. Basically just feels like it tracks the ground better. In the pedal setting I get more pop than I ever had when it was open, but there's no tradeoff of it feeling harsh anywhere. Also not bottoming in the usual places and running the same pressure as before (170 psi, no volume bands). Not much time in the open setting yet.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
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I run it in the "lock" position, it's amazing, so much compression support and it doesn't get harsh in the super gnar/choppy. So nice to have actual low-speed compression support and still just be able to pedal through roots and other stuff while seated with no kickback. I settled on about 220psi, which gives me 28-30% sag, less than before. I couldn't run less than 35% before the upgrade, otherwise it was jackhammer in the rough. Now that's totally gone. Craig installed one band on the negative side too.
 
M

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
Sandwich said:
I'm on 250psi with three rubber bands in the can. 210lb.

One of the reasons I ask about the avy setup is that my shock started making squishy noises lately, and my rebound setting went from about mid-range to two clicks in with the same feel. In fact, I started a ride with a happy setup and ended it noticing that my shock was super slow. It may be time for a rebuild, which looks like $150 for a normal deal. The avalanche kit adds just a little money on top of that, but I don't know if it helps.

I would consider switching to a fox though, #neverSRAM
Click to expand...
on a following? dude, crank that PSI up to like 290
 
dan-o

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
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Why polish the Monarch turd when you can something like an X2 and get exactly the feel you want?
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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May 23, 2002
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because I can't get an X2?

sag seems OK. I guess I can experiment with more air but it seems like I'm getting good travel without bottoming everywhere. I plan on dropping one ring (to 2), but if I ever get the time Fanatik sez they'll rebuild it for me.
 
dan-o

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
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Sandwich said:
because I can't get an X2?

sag seems OK. I guess I can experiment with more air but it seems like I'm getting good travel without bottoming everywhere. I plan on dropping one ring (to 2), but if I ever get the time Fanatik sez they'll rebuild it for me.
Click to expand...
Right, I know you're limited due to frame design. Was just posting to the others who aren't constrained by such issues.
 
M

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
Just one guys experience, but the following seems to sag to about the same point regardless of pressure, and doesn't seem to firmly bottom out heavy.

But as a 215lb rider on an xl, I actually have useable damping range at 295psi, don't need pedal switch except for road,still use full travel with 3 bands, and way more support on g-outs.

Instead of those Rwc beating kits, I just hand honed my shock reducer to smooth and readily rotating in a Teflon bushing and that gives the bike way better feel on small trail chatter
 
Josef

Josef

Monkey
Apr 17, 2013
108
11
My remedy for my hate of the Monarch on my Following was to buy an SB5.5. First world problems....
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,077
5,995
borcester rhymes
wiscodh said:
only a non piggy back fits in the following. Dude you are running to little pressure in that shit too...... I had like 260 in mine at 185lbs.
Click to expand...
Wow, maybe I am way off. I started off with 250 and that seemed low, then I added 3 bands from 0, and it's seemed to be better. I still wonder if something is wrong with mine tho.

No shocks fit the following besides the monarch and rp
 
M

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
Sandwich said:
Wow, maybe I am way off. I started off with 250 and that seemed low, then I added 3 bands from 0, and it's seemed to be better. I still wonder if something is wrong with mine tho.

No shocks fit the following besides the monarch and rp
Click to expand...
Pretty much all monarchs need a rebuild from new, no getting around that. They generally ride really nice after that tho

But 285-290, 2-3 bands, 4-5 clicks rebound and a smooth top bushing and that bike will really come alive for you
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,998
9,659
AK
dan-o said:
Why polish the Monarch turd when you can something like an X2 and get exactly the feel you want?
Click to expand...
You can get exactly the feel you want from an OEM shock? Seems like a longshot.
 
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