[kidwoo]

^Throw slick honey in them that will never happen. I don't know what they're doing now but they used to come with oil......which would just seep out of the damn thing anyway. The only thing I've ever had go wrong with one in 8 years of use is the pawl spring broke. It's just a little ring that costs a few bucks so it's not huge but it's good to keep an extra. One set of bearings replaced in that time period too but it was a good run.


I just built up a wheelset with some hopes for my dirtjumper. That's the only hub I've ever had to chase the rotor bolt holes on. Not real impressed with those things so far. I got them because they're light......so they accomplish that I guess. But I also slipped a pedal and ate shlt a few days ago. I think I got addicted to those 120pt hadleys I had on before. I've never once whined about engagement points but these have me wondering.

 

[IH8Rice]

could have unfortunately also been a bad hub. i was going on 8+ years before i replaced the bearings in my hub w/ absolutely zero maintenance in that time and that included hosing the bike off after every ride and riding through nasty much for a full year.... and it wasnt because i needed to, i just felt it was time to give it some actual tlc and put some fancy new ones in there.

 

[iRider]

I didn't find the Hadley to be amazing.
I bought one brand new a few years ago, and after the first wet ride (within a week of purchasing it) the freehub had seized up when I went to ride it again. The needle bearing is very sensitive to water intrusion and it seems the seals weren't good enough to protect it. Once you grease it it's fine - and maybe they come better greased from factory now, but apart from engaging fast I didn't find it offered that much. The stock main bearings didn't last that long before starting to feel a bit rough either. The replacements I put in lasted much longer (still going in a friend's bike).

If I wanted to spend that amount of money again I'd spend a little more and get a King. For now though, Hope rears are lighter, more reliable (esp. in wet conditions), and much cheaper. Engagement takes a hit but honestly made no difference to my riding, just doesn't sound as cool.

Good that I don't have to be the first to spoil the Hadley fanboy party.
Wanted to buy a used set of wheels with Hadleys that were little ridden and then stored. When I came to pick them up the bearings on both wheels felt pretty bad. Not what I had expected from hubs that everybody raves about how reliable they are. There seems to be nothing behind the hype.

 

[kidwoo]

There seems to be nothing behind the hype.

'hype?'

Jesus, they're just hubs. Hubs that work for a long time for most people. It's not like everyone's trying to justify their purchases because they're light or something.

You're basing your deep understanding on a set of used hubs that could have been sitting underwater for a year for all you know.


Hadleys come with oil in them. That is stupid. So are people who don't realize oil is leaking out of their hub and it's drying out. It's like a boxxer. You know......a race hub. Just a little slick honey. Exact same thing

 

[iRider]

Tune are race hubs. Light and disposable.
BTW: I know he treats his stuff extremely well. This and the fact that the hubs are Hadleys (the most reliable hub evvvaaaarrrr if you believe RM and other boards) made me not even consider the fact that they might be shot. Now we try to figure out how to rebuild them (good manuals online, great!) and there is need for weird sized wrenches and the bearings don't seem to be something I can source easily.
Not a problem I had with other hubs that I use/used (Shimano, Hope, DT, Novatec, Ringle, Mavic...). FWIW: I have an Intense branded Hadley front hub that is still smooth after all these years, but it is a pig!

 

[kidwoo]

A pin spanner and a cone wrench isn't that unusual. I don't own the hadley tools either.

Don't know what to tell you. I'm still using the very first hub I ever put on a dh bike......a hadley I bought in like 2002. It ain't the internet, it's reality. I'm not going to tell you that kings or some other brand won't do the same but I've never killed one or worn it out to the point that it's not worth fixing.

I can easily see how they would rust if someone let them go dry. Like I said....that oil system is kind of stupid. If someone can't figure out they should be greased, then yeah, don't buy them.

 

[jonKranked]

fwiw a while back hadley did get a bad batch of bearings, which they found out about and replaced for anyone that called...


and I'm w/ kidwoo. I've got a hadley w/ a decade on it. no problems. ever.

 

[bullcrew]

fwiw a while back hadley did get a bad batch of bearings, which they found out about and replaced for anyone that called...


and I'm w/ kidwoo. I've got a hadley w/ a decade on it. no problems. ever.

Same here it was a bad batch of bearings I mentioned earlier. Did a snow ride and it was seized bad, swapped bearings and no issues at all. I've done several water crossings, big snow runs, several snow rides on the mtns and free ride park in Boise in winter and all of mud rides...
If your not riding cold nasty weather up north then your not riding in the winter....

Mike had a batch go out with it, it was swapped by the bearing manufacturer for what he had in stock and was not what Hadley spec'd ....almost all those bearings had a short lived life, he was not real happy about that considering his reliability and long term use of his hubs...

 

[iRider]

OK, good to know. Anybody knows what bearings Hadley specs then?

BTW:
Hadley hub repair tool box:
1. 33mm PIN spanner
2. 29mm PIN spanner
3. 18.5mm PIN spanner
4. 16mm PIN spanner
5. 25mm C-Wrench x2
6. 21mm C-Wrench
7. 21mm C-Wrench (4mmWIDE)
8. 15mm C-Wrench
9. 26mm PIN spanner

Nothing I have in my toolbox. Like I said, not a problem I previously had with hubs that I owned. Even Mavic supplies a hub tool with their wheelsets.

 

[kidwoo]

cone wrench



pin spanner

 

[IH8Rice]

cone wrench



pin spanner

yup

although they included tools with their rebuild kit, i didnt have to use any of them to rebuild my rear hub. a 21mm cone wrench (grind a 20mm if needed) and a red pin spanner is something i already had and i used a set of sockets to knock out the main hub shell bearings. rebuilding the hub couldnt have been any easier and i didnt need any owner's manual to figure it out. sicklines has a pretty easy to follow rebuild guide if you really need it (http://www.sicklines.com/tech/howto/hadleyoverhaul/.)
the rear hub shell's bearings are 6804 sized. very easy to find

 

[jonKranked]

OK, good to know. Anybody knows what bearings Hadley specs then?

BTW:
Hadley hub repair tool box:
1. 33mm PIN spanner
2. 29mm PIN spanner
3. 18.5mm PIN spanner
4. 16mm PIN spanner
5. 25mm C-Wrench x2
6. 21mm C-Wrench
7. 21mm C-Wrench (4mmWIDE)
8. 15mm C-Wrench
9. 26mm PIN spanner

Nothing I have in my toolbox. Like I said, not a problem I previously had with hubs that I owned. Even Mavic supplies a hub tool with their wheelsets.

the tool set is nice (i have one), but you can certainly service the hubs without it. i got by with an adjustable pin spanner and a grinder'd out spanner for years before i got the tool set.

 

[iRider]

cone wrench

Yeah, but 21 mm + 4 mm wide and 25 mm???? Odd sizes for sure. I guess I should be happy it is even metric.

 

[iRider]

the rear hub shell's bearings are 6804 sized. very easy to find

What spec? 2RSH? Or what is 'special' about the ones Hadley specs. I don't want to buy the 'wrong' ones or whatever Hadley had when they spec'd the ones that died.

 

[IH8Rice]

What spec? 2RSH? Or what is 'special' about the ones Hadley specs. I don't want to buy the 'wrong' ones or whatever Hadley had when they spec'd the ones that died.

i used the Enduro ceramics but i believe the stock ones are enduro Max bearings 68042RS but they dont have any markings on them.

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah, but 21 mm + 4 mm wide and 25 mm???? Odd sizes for sure. I guess I should be happy it is even metric.

Give me your man card. I'm clipping the corner. One more and you're out of the club.

Go knit or something.

 

[iRider]

Give me your man card. I'm clipping the corner. One more and you're out of the club.

Go knit or something.

Sorry, it is my genes. Can't clip those.

It is not that I can't do it. But the argument pro Hadleys is that they are reliable and easy to rebuild. Maybe they were back in the day when nothing better was around. But wake up, there are tons of options that are easier to get, reliable, lighter and that you can service easier. Ah, forgot, you can also get others in pretty colors and the manufacturers all have webpages.
Maybe I shouldn't buy these Hadleys. I am somehow not ready to buy into a sect.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Last year I spent a bunch of money on Enduro bearings for my Hadleys that I had ridden DH on for 3 seasons.

Took the hubs apart and none of the bearings needed replacing.

Just another data point from a random internet dude.

I also have a 135mm King rear hub (Fun Bolts version) that I have never had to adjust/tighten in 7 years.

 

[kidwoo]

It is not that I can't do it. But the argument pro Hadleys is that they are reliable and easy to rebuild.

And you're arguing against that because you got a beat used pair from someone and you haven't even TRIED to take them apart yet.

brilliant

They're just hubs dude. They're not any different than any other hubs as far as complexity. Really.

 

[Tomasis]

running hadley over 10 years, runs smooth as well

Kidwoo, what kind of slick honey? Id like service my hubs. Maybe are there any intructions how to CLA (overhaul). Enduro bearings, what part nr?

 

[kidwoo]

There's nothing special about enduro bearings. If those go bad, it's usually just better to replace them, just like every other sealed cartridge. You can do it but it's tough not to damage the seal. And don't use slick honey for that part of it.

Just to be clear, all this babble about oil and slick honey is just regarding the pawl mechanism on the rear hub only.

 

[Sandwich]

are huggy's still good hubs? they used to be renowned for their durability...but the 440 is heavy.

 

[kidwoo]

are huggy's still good hubs? they used to be renowned for their durability...but the 440 is heavy.

They're baby shaped

Isn't that pretty much the dt swiss design these days?

I crushed an axle in a rear hub once by (I guess) overtighening the rear bolt. That was kind of lame. The old hugi pawl system is slick though.

 

[jackalope]

I have 440's on my DH bike and my not-DH bike, and with the exception of one of them getting too dry (my fault), they have been flawless. I put in the higher engagement star ratchets, so they at least have a respectable level of engagement now. Super easy to maintain and durable, but they aren't the lightest around and kinda pricey (altho used ones can be had pretty cheaply). If anything, the main problem with them is they won't die and/or fvck up frequently in order to provide me an excuse to get some Hadleys or I9s (or the 321's woo mentioned).

 

[Sandwich]

Isn't that pretty much the dt swiss design these days?

I crushed an axle in a rear hub once by (I guess) overtighening the rear bolt. That was kind of lame. The old hugi pawl system is slick though.

ohhhhh yeah, hoogie became DT swiss....so I guess it's, Are DT swiss hubs any good?

Sounds like a maybe.

 

[kidwoo]

ohhhhh yeah, hoogie became DT swiss....so I guess it's, Are DT swiss hubs any good?

Sounds like a maybe.

Other than my crushed axle, the one currently on my dh bike has worked well.

There are lots of good options out there. I'd definitely say dt-swiss is one of them. I just looked up the weight for a 440. They're only like 60 grams heavier than a hope.

About the only hubs I've had that I'd say were just shlt were some old dt swiss onyx hubs. I had two of them and both of them literally just cracked in half. One of them on my girlfriend's townie bike

 

[Tomasis]

There's nothing special about enduro bearings. If those go bad, it's usually just better to replace them, just like every other sealed cartridge. You can do it but it's tough not to damage the seal. And don't use slick honey for that part of it.

Just to be clear, all this babble about oil and slick honey is just regarding the pawl mechanism on the rear hub only.

ah.. I leave it.. it is something about hadley.. even after 10 years, it runs or Im not riding hard enough.

 

[frorider]

i've had chris kings and hadleys from 2002 that are still running strong. CS from both companies has been good, but overall Hadley has had the best CS. Hadley hub shell is 7075 alu, Hopes use 2014. The titanium freehub on the hadley means getting cogsets off is always easy vs my kings or hopes. Bearing preload has been set and forget on the Hadleys. Easy to service. One rear Hadley hub has been 135X10, 135X12, and 142X12 configuration and each change was inexpensive. I can keep the CK's running w/ low drag but takes more frequent servicing than the hadleys.

I've become spoiled and don't like less than 72 pts engagement. Have heard the 36 pt version of DT's grenades enough that some people went back to 18 pt.

Chris King grease has lowish viscosity (like hand lotion) and IME works really well for pawls on hopes/hadleys etc. I.e. is greasey enough to stay in place, but doesn't thicken/harden up & cause issues.

 

[Udi]

I wasn't ripping on Hadley, just posting my experience - apart from that they were very nicely made, and the drive system was excellent (108pt was the highest, not 120 kidwoo - but they stopped making it because a few people broke them).

I understand the oil in the ratchet mechanism (which works fine) but on a $300+ hub I didn't expect to have to open the thing up and grease-pack bearings before even riding it once. It never had problems after greasing it, but if I was riding in the mud regularly (as I was last year) I'd always be concerned about that needle bearing seizing with enough water intrusion.

Honestly I am not sure if King would be better in the same scenario as it uses needles too, but perhaps it has better sealing?

iRider - You don't actually need that many tools as already said, I just used an adjustable park pin spanner and the cone spanner to fit the non-drive end. The plastic ring in the freehub body comes undone pretty easily (I just used two small screws held in a vise to mimic a pin spanner, unfortunately the park adjustable one doesn't have long enough pins). Standard 6804-2RS bearings in the main hub body, pack the stock needle bearing with a light grease of your choosing, and use a heavy oil or oil mixed with a tiny bit of grease to lube the ratchet. Be gentle with the bearing preload collars, just snug is fine.

 

[kidwoo]

I wasn't ripping on Hadley, just posting my experience - apart from that they were very nicely made, and the drive system was excellent (108pt was the highest, not 120 kidwoo - but they stopped making it because a few people broke them).

I understand the oil in the ratchet mechanism (which works fine) but on a $300+ hub I didn't expect to have to open the thing up and grease-pack bearings before even riding it once. It never had problems after greasing it, but if I was riding in the mud regularly (as I was last year) I'd always be concerned about that needle bearing seizing with enough water intrusion.

I knew it was a hundred and something. That's why I kept changing the number I managed to get ahold of one and haven't broken it yet......I treat that thing like gollum and the ring™ What was actually failing on those?

The thing with just using oil is that it DOES go away, quickly. I only ride in mud maybe 20-30 days a year but it sure seems like using a thin grease lets you get away with barely even touching the things. I probably haven't opened up my two old ones in about 4 years. So it just seems to me that if you do use grease instead of oil, they are not in any way shape or form 'high' or even 'frequent' maintenance. It's easy to do and you get a pretty bomber setup out of it.

 

[jonKranked]

I knew it was a hundred and something. That's why I kept changing the number I managed to get ahold of one and haven't broken it yet......I treat that thing like gollum and the ring™ What was actually failing on those?

from what i've heard, it wasn't actually anything failing, just the grade of ti they used for the 108pt freehubs got prohibitively expensive.

PS I have two of them

 

[jonKranked]

but also on the 108pt hubs, it was 3 pawls offset so only one pawl was engaged at a time. functional, but not ideal. the new high engagement ones they make are 4 pawl, offset so that 2 pawls are engaged at any given time.

 

[kidwoo]

you're going to have to sell me one of yours

I can't in good conscience let you ride a hub that has only one pawl driving your bike.


It's just too dangerous.

 

[Udi]

I'm not entirely sure what failed, but I remember a few reports of broken/skipping ones - I think you had to be a big guy putting a lot of load through the 108 to make it fail. Mine was absolutely fine (and is still going in a friend's bike). The newer 72pt ones are 4-pawl with 2 engaging at a time instead of 3-pawl with 1 engaging at a time on the 108. Funnily enough a friend of mine had the 72pt one skip because it was greased too heavily from factory, I think the ratchet is best off with a light lube.

Just so it's clear - when I talk about grease packing, I'm talking about the needle bearing inside the freehub body. Once that's done they do seem to last a while.

 

[jonKranked]

you're going to have to sell me one of yours

I can't in good conscience let you ride a hub that has only one pawl driving your bike.


It's just too dangerous.

hey man, if lance can cheat his way to glory with one ball, i can muppet my way to mediocrity with one pawl

 

[kidwoo]

Just so it's clear - when I talk about grease packing, I'm talking about the needle bearing inside the freehub body. Once that's done they do seem to last a while.

Yeah I just put a plug of grease in a potato gun, open up the hub and then fire. It hits the bearing, the pawls, the rotor, the neighbor's dog. Pretty thorough.

But yeah doesn't it seem like coating that thing with grease would seal it up better? Everything else for that matter too. Been working for me.

 

[jonKranked]

Yeah I just put a plug of grease in a potato gun, open up the hub and then fire. It hits the bearing, the pawls, the rotor, the neighbor's dog. Pretty thorough.

But yeah doesn't it seem like coating that thing with grease would seal it up better? Everything else for that matter too. Been working for me.

nah man, the trick is to fill up a power washer with grease. You can get the chain, hubs, bb, and pivot bearings in one shot.

 

[Udi]

Why not just put a potato in the potato gun? Maybe that's the secret.

 

[kidwoo]

A friend of mine who runs a bike shop wants to patent the "triflow bathtub"

You know those creaks you just can't find? Yeah. For that.

 

[Silver]

A friend of mine who runs a bike shop wants to patent the "triflow bathtub"

You know those creaks you just can't find? Yeah. For that.

Triflow bathtub sounds like a google image search dare to me...