coil springs are by definition linear. F = -kx
how do you get more linear than a straight line?
how do you get more linear than a straight line?
Cane Creek Double Barrel Air
- Thread starter Trekrules
- Start date
OK, you're right, maybe bad choice of words.
Most high volume air springs I have tried have a tendency to blow through the mid travel if you've got them set up for good small bump compliance (i.e. less air pressure, more sag). I've heard this referenced as being linear in the mid-stroke. I used the common convention as opposed to the technically correct term!
Easy, draw the straight line thicker.
I think I understand the intended question, though: is the DB Air more linear in the mid stroke compared to most air sprung shocks? Ie, it would be awesome to see the spring rate curve.
im about in the middle after the two little tweaks i did:
HSC 1.5
LSC 12
HSR 1.75
LSR 12
i do tend to run my rear shock fairly firm, so im only getting around 25% sag. it could be a bit less but i rotated the sleeve that has the schrader valve attached to it, to be on the bottom thinking it would be in a good location, but its a bit of a pain to attach the pump and to remove it quickly enough without losing all the air. im going to rotate it again but since this air can is so damn big, it takes a million pumps to get back up to 175-180psi.
it obviously is more progressive then the coil and as i mentioned above, im not getting full travel in the middle progression setting on the frame. i will be toying with the HSC and moving the shock to the least progressive setting to see if that helps.
Hey RiceH8ter, what,s the latest?
Curious to see if your getting full travel yet and how your liking it.
What travel setting are you in? I have a M9 that I'm using in the 9-1/2 setting and I'm curious to try the other settings. Having the air spring to adjust between the different settings would be ideal...if it works as good as the coil
Curious to see if your getting full travel yet and how your liking it.
What travel setting are you in? I have a M9 that I'm using in the 9-1/2 setting and I'm curious to try the other settings. Having the air spring to adjust between the different settings would be ideal...if it works as good as the coil
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DB Air extensive DB Air review teaser http://nsmb.com/5140-2012-cane-creek-double-barrel-air/
be sure to read Timmigrant's comments below the article.DB Air extensive DB Air review teaser http://nsmb.com/5140-2012-cane-creek-double-barrel-air/
shock is still killing it but im still not getting full travel...like i said before, the shuttle trails around here are somewhat mellow but have a ton of baby head rocks. Bullit398 on here is also not getting full travel on his Blur LTc. i was going to put a small progession ring in but he said they come with none in there..dohHey RiceH8ter, what,s the latest?
Curious to see if your getting full travel yet and how your liking it.
What travel setting are you in? I have a M9 that I'm using in the 9-1/2 setting and I'm curious to try the other settings. Having the air spring to adjust between the different settings would be ideal...if it works as good as the coil
ive really only rode the bike in the 8.5" setting since ive had it. ive found that is more then adequate for every place ive ridden. ive wanted to try the 9 and 9.5" setting back to back but forget to since i have too much fun riding! if and when i do the travel adjustments, having the air shock will make it a lot easier obviously.
we rode all day sunday but was cut short with a minor problem...i also bent my saddle pretty bad with my taint.
There seems to be an issue with the CCDBA in this respect.
See this post over on MTBR: http://forums.mtbr.com/9152492-post13.html
Also, from the beginning, Cane Creek said the main purpose of the DBAir was to produce a more progressive spring curve than the coil shock; the goal being something that works better with frames that have linear or regressive leverage rate curves.
So, maybe the people complaining about not getting full travel should really be riding the coil sprung version.
I talked to CC about getting a DBAir for the new DH frame I'm building up, but they recommended the coil sprung version for the above reason: the frame has a progressive leverage curve, and with the air sprung shock, it would be too progressive. I took their advice and got the coil version.
So, maybe the people complaining about not getting full travel should really be riding the coil sprung version.
I talked to CC about getting a DBAir for the new DH frame I'm building up, but they recommended the coil sprung version for the above reason: the frame has a progressive leverage curve, and with the air sprung shock, it would be too progressive. I took their advice and got the coil version.
ill worry about it when i take it to a real mountain and still dont get full travel. its not like im only getting 2.5" of stroke from the shock. its probably 2.8" of stroke im getting and im running it fairly firm. i did move the progression setting on the frame to the lowest and it made a slight difference but nothing dramatic.
they also said they didnt run into any issues whilst testing on the same bike as mine too
be sure to read Timmigrant's comments below the article.
lol wut?!
also ih8rice, what progressiveness setting are you running on your m9?
Sorry if that was confusing for you. Two of the BD Air's I've tried had different air spring designs. I didn't have that Truax I rode for long, and as such didn't get to pull the air sleeve to check which of the air spring designs that particular shock was using.lol wut?!
As folks above mentioned the DB Air is a more progressive spring curve than the DB Coil. I can see Cane Creek's logic in creating a more progressive air spring curve in an attempt to alter the characteristics of linear and regressive frames.
they have multiple models??
I believe the one unit was a pre-production design. From what I understand there is only one production air spring design.
the "internal geometry" part is still confusing me.
tl;dr
does anyone have riding time on a vivid air and the ccdb air? care to compare the two, if possible?
does anyone have riding time on a vivid air and the ccdb air? care to compare the two, if possible?
I think Cane Creek has gone too far with the air spring curve, everyone is running the shock without any spacer and it's very difficult to get full travel. I have a friend that is using it on an Orange Patriot (Regressive frame) and he loves the shock, but he is running it without any volume spacer. If the volume would have been a little bit bigger he would be using some of the spacers, and more progressive frames could get more travel removing the spacers...
Weight weenies...
Who? Where? ;>
CC says BD Air hasn't been designed to reduce bike weight, in a first place...
Fixorated.Who? Where? ;>
CC says DB Air hasn't been designed to reduce bike weight, in a first place...
It was designed for bikes with air shocks that need improvement, specifically stated NOT to replace a coil shock, but in proper application. (HAHAHA BAND AID SHOCK!
)So swap an RP23 for a CCDBa and dont expect to lose weight.
Swap a DH coil for it, and expect to lose weight (and also expect that it wasnt the application this shock was designed for and the corresponding results.....)
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All the guys running DB Air in progressive frames.Who? Where? ;>
CC says BD Air hasn't been designed to reduce bike weight, in a first place...
So is it more progressive than the Vivid Air? I get full travel on my VA equipped V10, in 10" & 8.5" settings.
oh rly ?
this guy is running it on a Makulu which is linear with a bit of progression at the end
haven't got it out on the trail yet but it feels good, and plush for sure. gut feeling is it will work out well.
no, very linear with very slight degression at the end.
please display e-facts
That does look like an air-shock-friendly leverage rate curve. I haven't seen the spring rate curve of the DB Air, but assuming it is somewhat similar to other air shocks, that would probably explain why it works well on the Makulu.
cool and all, but that's the 2010, the 2011 has moar progression at the end of the curve
which should make it perfect for the DBair
which should make it perfect for the DBair
Not necessarily. If the combinations of the two increases in rate at the end of the travel is too great you may never reach full travel, or if the increase is too sudden it may not be too good.
For example the regression at the end of the travel was a reason why the Mojo HD was never recommended for a coil shock until the RC4 became available & was tested on it.
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^You're right about shock rate curves and air springs but the RC4 was on the market before the Mojo HD.
it's similar but much more expressed on the glory, it looks like it could really benefit to run an air shock.
btw, download this, you have a huge database of bikes in there so you can compare and get some idea of how some bikes behave
Windows only......do you have the 2011 Makulu data you could post up?
Thx man! Good to hear that. I just have to wait till CC makes 15mm eyelet version for Glory and some older Spesh bikes
there's no new model file, the one i posted before was the latest.