[gonefirefightin]

I was peer-pressured into starting this thread

Been using the term "Intelligent domicile" since the term "smart home" bugs me because the lazy US has been in a retrofit for smart home adaptations and devices after the house has been built rather than having components like Europe that are built in from the ground up on new constructions.

In this county, I can do every single part of the construction myself and am going to do so with the exception of the LPG, and service connection at the street. Otherwise, I will do it all from start to finish.

I have a little over of an acre right next to Toshi's parents up on the hill. The lot is sloping off the ridge line so the existing pad needs to be cut down and pushed out in order to make enough room to build on. Right now I doubt it would fit a 1k square foot house.

While waiting for the permits and doing the excavation I figured I would share my concepts.

Low voltage

I've been testing out the feasibility of power over ethernet (PoE) low voltage lighting and devices since the traditional Coax and fixtures are all still native 110v and "smart" devices still use a transformer or converter which doesn't seem smart nor cost-effective to me. Low voltage is also less of a strain on a solar/battery system and can be at the same voltage or at least stay DC

Other than off-the-shelf components such as ubiquity and other rack-mounted home automation systems I have been buying LED fixtures, usb outlets, and strip lights that are in a 24-48v range to use with a PoE+ switch or injectors (48v) for use in recessed can/strip lighting in places like kitchens, bathrooms, and coffered or soffit ceilings. The products I have been testing things out within the garage have promise but some of the parts in the circuit are proving hard to source such as low-voltage wall switches and ceiling fixture lights that don't have a transformer.

HVAC

Jumping on the mini split/heat pump bandwagon. The house will probably be around 1800 square feet of climate-controlled living space and I would much rather run a 110v option for the mechanical needs rather than the traditional 220v style forced air systems since mini splits can be run via solar/battery configs with zero issues.

Stemwall foundation

This option makes the most sense for me since I can pour all the footings myself, lay the courses of block solo, and create enough height under the subfloor for all the pex, cable, and conduit since it will more than likely be a low angle roof design.

Low angle roof

Wind, and lots of it. On the Oregon coast, living on a hill presents some additional waterproofing and weathering concerns so I have opted to go for a low-angle roof (not flat) with a generous eve overhang to protect the windows. I've found that most folks who are exposed to the wind on the ridges have had some challenges with traditional roof designs and using traditional roofing materials in this wind value.

Utilities

A well will provide water with a very robust filtration system and a very large bulk storage tank, all major appliances will be LPG such as the dryer, range, oven, water heater, etc. I will have 250 amp power from the road but only to a smart panel so I can build the solar system later once the panels and the calculations determine the actual usage and system I will need. But ultimatley the 250 amp service will be mostly for the shop and garage since my welders and tools are a bit power hungry. A standard septic system with traditional leach fields is all the soils call for and have plenty of room for a tree'd tier system.

Tons of glass

Being as I used to be a custom window and door builder at Pozzi back in the day I will be doing all my own windows, doors, garage doors, and glazing myself on site. I am pretty sure I will be building the detached garage first in order to give myself a clean dry space to be able to glaze dual pane, argon-filled, structural windows throughout the house.

The plans

I am pretty sure I am going to draw my own plans and get them engineered but this is about the closest floorplan I could find that has most of the features I am looking for.

Plan 623172DJ: Mid-Century Modern Dogtrot House Plan with 4 Beds and 3 Baths

This mid-century modern-style dogtrot house plan (that

www.architecturaldesigns.com

The "dog trot" area will be an outdoor kitchen area and I will put glass garage doors on each end for when the weather and wind are foul. The kitchen and living rooms will be swapped to put the living area at the view.



Does anybody have any experience with PoE lighting? I am learning as I go. Roast me.

 

[stevew]

"dog trot"

i heard that phrase in book series @Westy recommended to me....now i know...

younger brother used to work at a glass shop tempering glass for commercial/high rise buildings....

nope.

 

[gonefirefightin]

i heard that phrase in book series @Westy recommended to me....now i know...

younger brother used to work at a glass shop tempering glass for commercial/high rise buildings....

nope.

Interesting, A dog trot pop up book, who knew

I Did I rough price search for the window package alone for this floorplan and it came in around 90-120k for just the windows
When I did a rough cost build for all the glass panes for the house it came out to 6-7k just for the glass.

 

[Westy]

i heard that phrase in book series @Westy recommended to me....now i know...

younger brother used to work at a glass shop tempering glass for commercial/high rise buildings....

nope.

The Way West IIRC. I think breezeway is a more appropriate term for the HGTV crowd.

 

[Toshi]

What roofing material? What insulation for walls and attic, too?

 

[Westy]

Some design inspiration

 

[gonefirefightin]

What roofing material? What insulation for walls and attic, too?

I will do bat insulation in the walls depending on what I can find at the time, there will be no attic with a low-pitch roof since they will be engineered joists but will use bat insulation there as well. The climate here (as you know) doesn't warrant any crazy R values and the one man installation factor of Bat insulation appeals to me, the blown in insulation tends to mold here over time and the spray foam method isn't effective in the states just yet, I will be using a membrane on each side of the studs tho. The roof will be a membrane roof over a foam board insulator.

 

[kidwoo]

The Way West IIRC. I think breezeway is a more appropriate term for the HGTV crowd.

"peleton room"

 

[stevew]

"peleton room"

exercise/coat rack.

 

[gonefirefightin]

"peleton room"

exercise/coat rack.

A place to work on my wagon/carriage out of the rain, lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogtrot_house

Ultimately it gives me a place out of the weather to steam crab, clean fish, and prepare meals without the house interior stinking.

 

[chuffer]

Very interested in your build too. We aren’t on the OR coast, but we are located in a gap in the coastal range that gets hammered with coastal weather…

and the spray foam method isn't effective in the states just yet,

What do you mean? I am thinking about a big spray foam project. Interested to about effectiveness.

As for insulation in general, why wouldn’t you go with the highest R value possible? Not just for the winters, which do get sub freezing, but also these ridiculous summers we’ve been having.

How about ventilation? I find that anything that is not very well ventilated gets dangerously humid very quickly!

 

[gonefirefightin]

Very interested in your build too. We aren’t on the OR coast, but we are located in a gap in the coastal range that gets hammered with coastal weather…



What do you mean? I am thinking about a big spray foam project. Interested to about effectiveness.

As for insulation in general, why wouldn’t you go with the highest R value possible? Not just for the winters, which do get sub freezing, but also these ridiculous summers we’ve been having.

How about ventilation? I find that anything that is not very well ventilated gets dangerously humid very quickly!

I guess I should have specified, that it's all going to be double wall R stud framing and a zero net structure. Thus bat insulation is the best option to fill the voids.

The spray foam is dependent on so many things, the brand, the type, the deployment, the crew. in my research and experience I've learned enough that no matter what, you will spend at least a 3rd of your investment on foam that goes in the dumpster and you still wont have fully shaved walls. Cost is still pretty high for the R value to me.

 

[DaveW]

I'd looked at building something in the dogtrot style too early on.
This one looked like a good starting point for what I wanted.

Rough-sawn cedar clads Whidbey Dogtrot house in Washington by SHED

Cedar siding and a central breezeway feature in this compact home in the Pacific Northwest designed by US firm SHED for a couple who will soon retire.

www.dezeen.com

I'd probably have made the breezeway wider though.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I'd looked at building something in the dogtrot style too early on.
This one looked like a good starting point for what I wanted.

Rough-sawn cedar clads Whidbey Dogtrot house in Washington by SHED

Cedar siding and a central breezeway feature in this compact home in the Pacific Northwest designed by US firm SHED for a couple who will soon retire.

www.dezeen.com

I'd probably have made the breezeway wider though.

My building pad is very long and narrow and the view is on the long side so it made sense

 

[boostindoubles]

Its like 100% humidity all the time?

Do you get muni gas or have a propane tank?

Conventional gravity septic system, I hope for your sanity.

 

[gonefirefightin]

Its like 100% humidity all the time?

Do you get muni gas or have a propane tank?

Conventional gravity septic system, I hope for your sanity.

Its pretty wet all winter and the storms can wreak havoc

1k gal LP tank

Unfortunately, the lots and soils leave me with zero choice but at least I'm high enough that it doesn't require a sand filter.

 

[CBJ]

One area where I got help was lighting. Type of lights, where to place them, light color etc. plus also combined with the natural light coming in. For me it something that makes a big difference and makes it living space not just a human storage box. Good luck with the build!

For me water is my number one fear as a homeowner. Always looking to cause trouble.

That house drawing. Never seen an outside space in the middle of the building an personally I like living room and cover outside space better at the end of the house and bedrooms in the middle. Unless there are some crazy strong winds all of the time that makes it too windy but personally I don't mind that.

 

[Jozz]

I guess I should have specified, that it's all going to be double wall R stud framing and a zero net structure. Thus bat insulation is the best option to fill the voids.

The spray foam is dependent on so many things, the brand, the type, the deployment, the crew. in my research and experience I've learned enough that no matter what, you will spend at least a 3rd of your investment on foam that goes in the dumpster and you still wont have fully shaved walls. Cost is still pretty high for the R value to me.

I went crazy with the R value, cause Quebec winters. R38 walls and R75 ceiling. I considered the double wall option. In the end I went with regular 2x6 wall with R22 Rockwool, added R4 structural recycled wood panels, and put on an R8 blanket of ComfortBoard all around. House is quiet like the inside of a bank safe. Wished I had the budget for triple glazed though.

Since it seem like a high humidity environment, make sure you have all your Perm ratings in check for your walls.

Can't wait to see some pictures!!

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I went crazy with the R value, cause Quebec winters. R38 walls and R75 ceiling. I considered the double wall option. In the end I went with regular 2x6 wall with R22 Rockwool, added R4 structural recycled wood panels, and put on an R8 blanket of ComfortBoard all around. House is quiet like the inside of a bank safe. Wished I had the budget for triple glazed though.

Since it seem like a high humidity environment, make sure you have all your Perm ratings in check for your walls.

Can't wait to see some pictures!!

Permeability?

I have fiberglass in the house and foam in a couple of other buildings. the former tends to become occupied by rodents, the latter by ants. As noted by @gonefirefightin, foam's a bitch to clean up after application.

 

[Jozz]

Permeability?

Yes. You want your lower perm rating materials inside and always more permeable as you go towards the outside. That is why particle boards are a terrible choice for structural walls.

Just look at the difference in perm ratings between Tyvek and Typar.

 

[6thElement]

Some good stuff on Matt Farrell's YT about the net zero home he's had built. I'd love to have something like that.

https://www.youtube.com/@UndecidedMF/videos

 

[Adventurous]

Very interested in your build too. We aren’t on the OR coast, but we are located in a gap in the coastal range that gets hammered with coastal weather…



What do you mean? I am thinking about a big spray foam project. Interested to about effectiveness.

As for insulation in general, why wouldn’t you go with the highest R value possible? Not just for the winters, which do get sub freezing, but also these ridiculous summers we’ve been having.

How about ventilation? I find that anything that is not very well ventilated gets dangerously humid very quickly!

I'd look long and hard before committing to foam. IMO, the pros don't outweigh the cons.

I've come to the conclusion that for our environment (New England), some combination of rockwool & foam board walls + loose fill attic is ideal. Ventilation is, as with any humid environment, critical.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I went crazy with the R value, cause Quebec winters. R38 walls and R75 ceiling. I considered the double wall option. In the end I went with regular 2x6 wall with R22 Rockwool, added R4 structural recycled wood panels, and put on an R8 blanket of ComfortBoard all around. House is quiet like the inside of a bank safe. Wished I had the budget for triple glazed though.

Since it seem like a high humidity environment, make sure you have all your Perm ratings in check for your walls.

Can't wait to see some pictures!!

I know I will be using the zip system as well as some modern membranes so it can still breathe and shed moisture inside the balloon, another reason not to use spray foam, it collects moisture against the substrate, especially on roofs. The cost per benefit of the triple pane isn't substantial enough for me to warrant that since the true R-value of windows is proportionate to the glass thickness and amount of airspace between the panes when filled with argon.

Some good stuff on Matt Farrell's YT about the net zero home he's had built. I'd love to have something like that.

https://www.youtube.com/@UndecidedMF/videos

I've been subscribed to his channels for at least a couple of years knowing I was going to build myself a few pads.

 

[Jozz]

I know I will be using the zip system as well as some modern membranes so it can still breathe and shed moisture inside the balloon, another reason not to use spray foam, it collects moisture against the substrate, especially on roofs.

I've researched my exterior sheathing profusely before building. Turns out Zip is not that breathable. The perm rating they are advertising is for the membrane only, not membrane and OSB. So it's basically the same as regular OSB. Just a heads up.

edit: this is what I've used.

SONOclimat ECO4 | Produits | MSL | MSL

www.mslfibre.com

Probably not available in your area.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I've researched my exterior sheathing profusely before building. Turns out Zip is not that breathable. The perm rating they are advertising is for the membrane only, not membrane and OSB. So it's basically the same as regular OSB. Just a heads up.

edit: this is what I've used.

SONOclimat ECO4 | Produits | MSL | MSL

www.mslfibre.com

Probably not available in your area.

Being double wall construction the exterior needs to be sealed thus zip makes the most sense and it is available, The Perm products go inside the balloon. Being a net zero config there has to be at least one sealed waterproof/vaporproof, airtight barrier in order to pass a pressure /seal test and the most logical place is the outer exterior to protect from water and elements. Of course, it also depends on the exterior siding method and materials but I will more than likely opt for a masonry product such as hardy and cultured sheet goods that will also be sealed and not need to be painted unlike traditional lap that tends to hold moisture here on the coast.

Im not sure why some builders are putting that barrier inside of the exterior. Its been done for years in artic conditions with huge temp swings and has proven to be the most effective to have the barrier on the exterior first, but now these builders in Texas and the south are realizing they have moisture damage inside the envelope because of a breathable outer layer and they are having to scrape spray foam and redo the exterior membranes on multi-million dollar homes and going back to bat style insulation because it can be cut, packed and trimmed into the smallest spaces to eliminate the air spots that contribute to the temp swings and moisture build-up.

 

[gonefirefightin]

One area where I got help was lighting. Type of lights, where to place them, light color etc. plus also combined with the natural light coming in. For me it something that makes a big difference and makes it living space not just a human storage box. Good luck with the build!

For me water is my number one fear as a homeowner. Always looking to cause trouble.

That house drawing. Never seen an outside space in the middle of the building an personally I like living room and cover outside space better at the end of the house and bedrooms in the middle. Unless there are some crazy strong winds all of the time that makes it too windy but personally I don't mind that.

I have probably built, remodeled, and worked around a couple of hundred custom homes in all my time in the trades and seen wild to mild but the best houses I've seen were ones that used tons of indirect and recessed lighting in prime spaces that add to the light via LED temp ranges and nits. Thus is another reason I am using low voltage lighting since it is so easy to instal, control and inexpensive to do.

As a bonus, low voltage is not under code so you have complete freedom to do what you like with all your cat6 drops interior and exterior.

 

[Jozz]

Being double wall construction the exterior needs to be sealed thus zip makes the most sense and it is available, The Perm products go inside the balloon. Being a net zero config there has to be at least one sealed waterproof/vaporproof, airtight barrier in order to pass a pressure /seal test and the most logical place is the outer exterior to protect from water and elements. Of course, it also depends on the exterior siding method and materials but I will more than likely opt for a masonry product such as hardy and cultured sheet goods that will also be sealed and not need to be painted unlike traditional lap that tends to hold moisture here on the coast.

Im not sure why some builders are putting that barrier inside of the exterior. Its been done for years in artic conditions with huge temp swings and has proven to be the most effective to have the barrier on the exterior first, but now these builders in Texas and the south are realizing they have moisture damage inside the envelope because of a breathable outer layer and they are having to scrape spray foam and redo the exterior membranes on multi-million dollar homes and going back to bat style insulation because it can be cut, packed and trimmed into the smallest spaces to eliminate the air spots that contribute to the temp swings and moisture build-up.

In zones where the use of air conditioning is almost 6 months a year, you end up with a different sets of problems concerning humidity migration in walls.

Around here, the preferred method (code required) is to put the vapor barrier inside. My wall goes like this: gypsum, 2x4 furring, 1.0 mil vapor barrier, stud + R22 rockwool bats, structural Eco R4 panels (20 perm), Tyvek air/water barrier (50 perm), R8 Comfortboard, dual furring, hemlock vertical siding) During winter months you don't want humidity traveling to far in the walls because of the dew point. Of course that vapor barrier needs complete coverage and not be perforated. Having 2x4 furring puts all wires and boxes inside without perforating the vapor barrier. Same goes for ceiling, low profile LED and double furring takes care of unwanted perforations of the barrier.

Main mistake made around here is having foam lined OSB structural panels with a botched vapor barrier install, full of holes and untapped seams. Vapor gets trapped in the wall and you end up with a mushroomy mess.

 

[Adventurous]

Being double wall construction the exterior needs to be sealed thus zip makes the most sense and it is available, The Perm products go inside the balloon. Being a net zero config there has to be at least one sealed waterproof/vaporproof, airtight barrier in order to pass a pressure /seal test and the most logical place is the outer exterior to protect from water and elements. Of course, it also depends on the exterior siding method and materials but I will more than likely opt for a masonry product such as hardy and cultured sheet goods that will also be sealed and not need to be painted unlike traditional lap that tends to hold moisture here on the coast.

Im not sure why some builders are putting that barrier inside of the exterior. Its been done for years in artic conditions with huge temp swings and has proven to be the most effective to have the barrier on the exterior first, but now these builders in Texas and the south are realizing they have moisture damage inside the envelope because of a breathable outer layer and they are having to scrape spray foam and redo the exterior membranes on multi-million dollar homes and going back to bat style insulation because it can be cut, packed and trimmed into the smallest spaces to eliminate the air spots that contribute to the temp swings and moisture build-up.

That's my biggest hang up with spray foam, by the time there are signs of moisture issues the framing or sheathing is fucked, and any repairs are a nightmare. Not to mention the end result is heavily dependent upon the skill level of the installer. Batts may take longer, but its hard to screw it up.

@johnbryanpeters posted a great article about the issues with spray foam insulation recently, wish I could find it.

 

[Jozz]

That's my biggest hang up with spray foam, by the time there are signs of moisture issues the framing or sheathing is fucked, and any repairs are a nightmare. Not to mention the end result is heavily dependent upon the skill level of the installer. Batts may take longer, but its hard to screw it up.

@johnbryanpeters posted a great article about the issues with spray foam insulation recently, wish I could find it.

Spray foam still got some application.
Like insulating and vapor sealing in between floor joists (belt).
Hard to accomplish this with bats and regular vapor barrier.

 

[gonefirefightin]

That's my biggest hang up with spray foam, by the time there are signs of moisture issues the framing or sheathing is fucked, and any repairs are a nightmare. Not to mention the end result is heavily dependent upon the skill level of the installer. Batts may take longer, but its hard to screw it up.

@johnbryanpeters posted a great article about the issues with spray foam insulation recently, wish I could find it.

I've seen more and more vids of peeps cutting away foam to find moisture damage behind it than any actual real numbers of proof it is better than any other method of insulating regardless of climate and geography. It has its applications when done right on the right structure but inside a residential envelope is not the answer it seems. When it first came out it was used in industrial applications and for single walled metal sided structures for what that is perfect for but the crossover was trendy and wasnt researched before it took off in a trend.

Spray foam still got some application.
Like insulating and vapor sealing in between floor joists (belt).
Hard to accomplish this with bats and regular vapor barrier.

I agree, it has its applications, but my biggest problem is the variable R value and cost versus benefit. For the DIY market, it is literally impossible to do correctly without the vastly expensive overhead and the waste is incredible. The last house I was in filled a 10 yard dumpster with product from a 1200 sq ft house. That came out to 38% of the materials bid.

 

[Adventurous]

Spray foam still got some application.
Like insulating and vapor sealing in between floor joists (belt).
Hard to accomplish this with bats and regular vapor barrier.

True. Having insulated 1/2 my house's rim joist this past summer with rigid foam, I would have loved a small spray foam kit.

Dreading doing the other half, but it'll be nice to replace the single layer of faced R-11 with something more legitimate.

 

[boostindoubles]

Theres a guy here - way out on the rez - he spray foamed a single wide and has an orange egg he lives in...

I'd rather build into a slope as much as possible. I don't know if thats a good idea for wet places though. Daylight basements help regulate heat a bunch.

You should do a shotcrete eco dome. They say they can take hurricanes no problem and the balloon membrane can stay behind for a vapor barrior.

 

[gonefirefightin]

Theres a guy here - way out on the rez - he spray foamed a single wide and has an orange egg he lives in...

I'd rather build into a slope as much as possible. I don't know if thats a good idea for wet places though. Daylight basements help regulate heat a bunch.

You should do a shotcrete eco dome. They say they can take hurricanes no problem and the balloon membrane can stay behind for a vapor barrior.

Living in a dome house was the most miserable place I ever lived

 

[Toshi]

Theres a guy here - way out on the rez - he spray foamed a single wide and has an orange egg he lives in...

that was the concept behind the future-housing that one of the main characters in William Gibson's The Peripheral lived in. everything coated. they toned that concept down for the (sadly only single season before cancellation) TV adaptation, though.

 

[gonefirefightin]

Is anybody in here familiar with PoE lighting or low voltage lighting concepts that aren't a retrofit adaptation to our archaic building methods?

I am designing my low voltage system with PoE in mind for the major hardware using switches and trying to stay away from transformers and converters so I can use a 12-48v system directly with the native solar/battery system voltages without having to convert, invert, or transform power at each end item.

The current offerings for residential fixtures and lighting are retrofits and require a transformer or converter for each fixture and still require Romex for 110v for each location. There are very few to zero solutions for just straight 48v PoE out there and if there are it is basically commercial applications for industrial and office buildings getting rid of fluorescent ballasts and other power-hungry fixtures.

Any ideas?

 

[6thElement]

Is anybody in here familiar with PoE lighting or low voltage lighting concepts that aren't a retrofit adaptation to our archaic building methods?

I am designing my low voltage system with PoE in mind for the major hardware using switches and trying to stay away from transformers and converters so I can use a 12-48v system directly with the native solar/battery system voltages without having to convert, invert, or transform power at each end item.

The current offerings for residential fixtures and lighting are retrofits and require a transformer or converter for each fixture and still require Romex for 110v for each location. There are very few to zero solutions for just straight 48v PoE out there and if there are it is basically commercial applications for industrial and office buildings getting rid of fluorescent ballasts and other power-hungry fixtures.

Any ideas?

Lemme basically copy your post to a buddy and see if he can help, then I'll put you in touch.

 

[chuffer]

I didn’t know (or care) that this was a thing until reading this thread. I will be following along with interest…

The low voltage and power aspects of your project seem cool, but my experience so far with smart devices has been that the cons outweigh the pros. Example - my smart outlets were very cool until they stopped working due to some protocol incompatibilty with new network hardware.

Also, what about residential building code? Does it even acknowledge the existence of the type of wiring you want to do?

 

[gonefirefightin]

I didn’t know (or care) that this was a thing until reading this thread. I will be following along with interest…

The low voltage and power aspects of your project seem cool, but my experience so far with smart devices has been that the cons outweigh the pros. Example - my smart outlets were very cool until they stopped working due to some protocol incompatibilty with new network hardware.

Also, what about residential building code? Does it even acknowledge the existence of the type of wiring you want to do?

Your scenario is exactly what I am referring to with devices that are retrofitted to 110v systems and how nobody has any products or solutions for something starting out from scratch in terms to low voltage and future-proofing.

As of right now, any and all low voltage systems are exempt from US building codes since it is all basically DC wiring and Cat6 cable drops which totally makes things worth it for half the outlets and all the lights/switches, cameras, in a dwelling. I am just piecing together parts and components in my planning phases to cover the whole system.

As of now I will be using a leviton distro panel with smart wifi breakers for the 110/220v side of the house and will use Din rail and rack mounted devices to power and control the low voltage side of the house but there really isnt much out there for stand-alone native DC fixtures such as lights and switches that dont come with a converter. I am about to the point of buying a handful of fixtures and lights and disassembling them to find the native voltage and use breakout buses for the cat6 to determine feasibility. I know LED strips will work in recessed and indirect applications but don't necessarily want the whole house in that fashion of lighting.

 

[Jozz]

Your scenario is exactly what I am referring to with devices that are retrofitted to 110v systems and how nobody has any products or solutions for something starting out from scratch in terms to low voltage and future-proofing.

As of right now, any and all low voltage systems are exempt from US building codes since it is all basically DC wiring and Cat6 cable drops which totally makes things worth it for half the outlets and all the lights/switches, cameras, in a dwelling. I am just piecing together parts and components in my planning phases to cover the whole system.

As of now I will be using a leviton distro panel with smart wifi breakers for the 110/220v side of the house and will use Din rail and rack mounted devices to power and control the low voltage side of the house but there really isnt much out there for stand-alone native DC fixtures such as lights and switches that dont come with a converter. I am about to the point of buying a handful of fixtures and lights and disassembling them to find the native voltage and use breakout buses for the cat6 to determine feasibility. I know LED strips will work in recessed and indirect applications but don't necessarily want the whole house in that fashion of lighting.

I looked to see if you could actually buy 12-24-48v fixtures that comes without a converter. There are some but really expensive. Like you said, you could buy regular led spotlights and just trashed the power supply. They are usually separate anyway, at least for spotlights.

 

[jonKranked]

How many bats have you caught so far?