[dante]

According to Al Jazeera the military has stepped in, prevented Mubarak from handing power to his VP, and is going to take control until a transition to a different government can take place...............


I guess the main question now is what does the military do? Do they hold power until a new Constitution/government is set up, or do they hold it indefinitely?

 

[IH8Rice]

According to Al Jazeera the military has stepped in, prevented Mubarak from handing power to his VP, and is going to take control until a transition to a different government can take place...............


I guess the main question now is what does the military do? Do they hold power until a new Constitution/government is set up, or do they hold it indefinitely?

listen to what America says probably.
giving power to the VP would be a slap in the people's face

 

[dante]

Uh oh. Speech is on now. Definitely does not sound like a "stepping down" speech.


Crowds are starting to get REALLY upset.

 

[IH8Rice]

cnn: maybe a better interpreter would be a good idea


edit: ouch. i guess he really didnt listen to the people

 

[dante]

He said absolutely nothing new. Zilch. He didn't even commit to getting rid of the emergency powers, or at least it seemed that way from the English translation: He *might* at some point, *suggest* bringing up a bill that *possibly* reduces or eliminates emergency powers, blah blah blah.

Al Jazeera was showing the crowds in a split screen with Mubarak, and they DEFINITELY did not take it well.

 

[dante]

Al Jazeera is stating that a massive crowd left the protest area after the speech and is now heading towards the local military base.........

 

[IH8Rice]

Al Jazeera is stating that a massive crowd left the protest area after the speech and is now heading towards the local military base.........

and to the National TV station

edit: no chance for a military coup either since they apparently are all sheeple

 

[Pesqueeb]

I think sh*t may be about to get real over there. Tahrir Square the new Tienanmen Square? Look for more "Made in the USA" freedom suppression tools to go into effect real soon.

 

[stevew]

I think sh*t may be about to get real over there. Tahrir Square the new Tienanmen Square? Look for more "Made in the USA" freedom suppression tools to go into effect real soon.

obama means well....

 

[dante]

I'm kind of amazed at the fact that the teabaggers *aren't* supporting this. I mean, their whole "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" thing fits PERFECTLY HERE!!

obama means well....

I'll take this approach over a decade-long, trillion-dollar war where we'll be "welcomed as liberators" personally... Obviously you might feel differently.

 

[stevew]

I'll take this approach over a decade-long, trillion-dollar war where we'll be "welcomed as liberators" personally... Obviously you might feel differently.

dante....i sincerely hope the people of egypt are happy with the dictator of their choosing.

the chance of it being anything else is slim to none.

i hope i'm wrong.

 

[MikeD]

I think sh*t may be about to get real over there. Tahrir Square the new Tienanmen Square? Look for more "Made in the USA" freedom suppression tools to go into effect real soon.

I don't think the military would let that happen.

 

[MMike]

BTW, I guess things in Tunisia are all fixed now?

One crisis at a time please.

 

[dante]

dante....i sincerely hope the people of egypt are happy with the dictator of their choosing.

the chance of it being anything else is slim to none.

i hope i'm wrong.

Well, the Egyptians definitely didn't want the dictator they had, and are willing to risk the possibility of something worse for the chance of something far, far better. It's just interesting that Freedom® was such an important concept that conservative after conservative stood up and said "Iraq was worth it", because even though we've spent $1 trillion plus, and had thousands die, Iraq now has some semblance of democracy.

But tens of millions of people marching in the streets for their own freedom? That's obviously a Muslim plot...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Well, the Egyptians definitely didn't want the dictator they had, and are willing to risk the possibility of something worse for the chance of something far, far better. It's just interesting that Freedom® was such an important concept that conservative after conservative stood up and said "Iraq was worth it", because even though we've spent $1 trillion plus, and had thousands die, Iraq now has some semblance of democracy.

But tens of millions of people marching in the streets for their own freedom? That's obviously a Muslim plot...

 

[dante]

What gets me is that although there's currently a schism in the GOP as to whether to support these protesters (Bill Kristol stating we should support the protesters, and Beck stating that we should pretty much back Mubarak) they're not the positions that I would have guessed.

Beck and his Tea Party idiots talk frequently about 2nd Amendment remedies, and how "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants". Yet when we have a group of patriots (nationalists) who actually *are* standing up to a tyrant, and are offering to give their blood (and that of Mubarak) in order to obtain freedom, suddenly these tea party dipsh!ts back the tyrant over the patriots.

Bill Kristol is "old-school neoconservative," one of the types of Republicans who has advocated both a) military intervention to "promote democracy" as well as b) supporting dictators who back US policies (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc). Yet Kristol is the one stating that we should stand by people fighting for democracy, even if what transpires may not be as closely aligned with US interests...

Dunno. I guess all the Republicans can at least agree on one thing: Whatever Obama is doing, it's the wrong approach.

 

[dante]

Mubarak just abdicated in favor of the military!!!

 

[IH8Rice]

congratulations to the Egyptian people!

 

[stevew]

BTW, I guess things in Tunisia are all fixed now?

no suez canal...no care.

i heard israels sphincter clench from here.

 

[dante]

no suez canal...no care.

i heard israels sphincter clench from here.

What, they didn't learn the downsides to supporting a brutal dictator against the will of the people previously?

edit: Oh great, the right wing is already crowing about the fact that the Shah abdicated on February 11th 1979.

 

[dante]

Also, check out the comments in the (liberal) Haaretz story. There are far more positive than negative comments...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/mubarak-resigns-as-egypt-s-president-hands-power-to-army-1.342808

Edit: especially comments like this:

Congratulations to the courageous democracy movement in Egypt! I wish the government of my country (the U.S.) had not supported the dictatorship for 30 years! I have grown up understanding that part of my Jewish identity means siding with the oppressed, with the poor, with people struggling for their freedom. This is a great day for Egypt and for all of humanity. A movement toward democracy is good for the entire region.

 

[dante]

So here's the headline from Drudgereport:

And here's the Yahoo news story that it was linked to.

Oh man, the right-wing really doesn't know how to handle this...

 

[-BB-]

Thank goodness that there was change with "Relatively" little violence.

 

[IH8Rice]

great line from a local from CNN:

"i dont care how much i lost (during the protest), im looking forward to how much im going to make"

 

[Dartman]

The most factual news site so far... http://ismubarakstillpresident.com/

 

[dante]

You know, from a political standpoint, Mubarak's actions couldn't have been better for Obama. Yesterday, when it looked like Mubarak was going to relinquish control later that day, the right was resigned to accepting that something good, somewhere might actually happen on Obama's watch. And then Mubarak pulled his stunt last night, refusing to step down, and the right wing went NUTS!!! They claimed it showed the White House in Disarray, or that Obama should do far more, or possibly far less, I'm not really sure which. But regardless, the right-wing was going crazy, criticizing Obama for everything under the sun.

Then barely 12 hours later it's over, Mubarak and Suleiman have left, the media is consumed with joyous pictures/video of Egyptians celebrating in the streets, and all of the right wing's "experts" on the situation were left looking completely ridiculous.

I honestly couldn't have written a better script.

 

[stevew]

I honestly couldn't have written a better script.

glenn beck dying on air would be better.

didn't think of that...did you?

 

[Dartman]

One of my friends posted this on my Facebook wall...

Does anybody really believe a 30 year regime can be overthrown in less then 3 weeks by a few people protesting in the city?
There is a word for folks that believe such things...

So it's all make believe so the new world order can take over.

I dunno what to make of this. I told him his tinfoil hat was too tight.

 

[dante]

"A few"? And I bet he thinks that there were 1 million people at Glenn Beck's rally in DC too, right?

When *actual* millions show up to protest, and your country is losing ~$310 million / day due to strikes/protests, and your stock market crashed 16% before being halted (due to protests), guess what... Regimes fall.

 

[dante]

Same here. I think The_Joker just works with a bunch of . We're at a time when any warfare is extremely economically devastating. It's why, for all their blustering, Israel hasn't attacked Iran (physically) and Iran hasn't attacked Israel.

So Mark, $20, 5-1 odds on whether Israel and Egypt go to war in the next year? Payout on 2/1/2013 or when they go to war, whichever comes first?

So Joker, now that the military has taken over and reassured the Israelis that the peace accord is still in effect, are your coworkers still partying (in fear) like it's 1979? Or have they just dropped the subject and moved on to the next BIG SCARY THING®?

 

[stoney]

So Joker, now that the military has taken over and reassured the Israelis that the peace accord is still in effect, are your coworkers still partying (in fear) like it's 1979? Or have they just dropped the subject and moved on to the next BIG SCARY THING®?

Don't we always? And as for the bet, the one person that took me up on it just quit... so, yeah.

 

[dante]

What, rockofullr and I don't count? I've already added it to my google calendar to pester you for that $100 check in a couple years.

 

[X3pilot]

are your coworkers still partying (in fear) like it's 1979?

He sees what you did there..

 

[MikeD]

and here's what happens when reality inconveniently intrudes on idealism.

 

[Pesqueeb]

There was a pretty good piece about this on This American Life last week or maybe the week before. Religous nut jobs aren't meshing too well with the "liberals" (whatever that means in Egypt) and others who's world views are based in fact. Not that much different than the United States really, except for fewer obese people.

 

[MikeD]

geezwho'dathunkit?

Soooo cliche. Military trying to hold on to power a bit too long with possibly real or maybe superficial dedication to secularism, pluralism, individual rights, and prevention of a permanent and repressive religious dictatorship arising out of a brief democratic conception. And Islamists not liking it.

Where's reality? Do Islamists just want their chance to be heard among many voices? I sincerely doubt it. These are the kind of people who want governments to have the power to prosecute and possibly mutilate or execute people who sketch cartoons they find objectionable. My money is firmly in the "we want the opportunity to have one election in which to permanently cement ourselves in power."

Then again, who ISN'T on that bandwagon in Egyptian politics?? The military is sure showing themselves to be...and even if their desires are sincere, they will end up stalling forever because Egyptian society writ large (including the vast majorities of ill-educated, fundamentally religious people outside the city) may simply not be able to meet their ideals of a democratic electorate within the next 200 years...

Anyhow, forget the Iran metaphors for a second because it's starting more to resemble Turkey's quandry. (Which itself has Iranian overtones, but still...)


Sidebar:
In much/most of the world, when "democracy" arrives, it's just seen as a one-shot chance to run the show in perpetuity. When I was in a small African country for a few years, it was really a revelation to see the ruling party absorbing all governmental functions to sustain and benefit itself while openly prosecuting, when not murdering (behind only the thinnest of veils) political opponents under the legal charge of "destabilizing government" without a shred of irony. It came down to a shockingly earnest stance of "We are the government, so saying or doing anything which will hurt our chances in the coming election, like honest journalism or running against us, is de facto anti-government action." Followed by a wide-eyed look around the room at the shocked Europeans and North Americans, saying a wounded, "What? What don't you get about it?? We won the last election!!"

 

[stevew]

Then again, who ISN'T on that bandwagon in Egyptian politics??

larry, moe & curly....viva la resistance!

 

[stevew]

still dancing in the streets....

 

[MikeD]

The Muslim Brotherhood president is trying to usurp democracy with a series of thinly-veiled excuses and cement an Islamist-fundamentalist regime in perpetuity? Color me SHOCKED!

 

[stevew]

happy we backed the winner.

our track record is outstanding.