I AM A "POACHER"

spoke80 · May 18, 2005

Sounds like good intentions on your part but you have to look at the situation from the other point of view. It sucks to have riders jeopardizing or whatever a situation by riding trails that are not open for whatever reason. My advice would be to get proactive. Grab a shovel and get busy that usual keeps the hard feelings to a minimum.

But that is just my opinion. :thumb:

Salami · May 18, 2005

mountainbiker said:
This is my response

Hey man, I understand your concerns, I do! If I am incorrect on this let me know, but I was under the impression that Central Park IS OPEN. Now I am aware that the freeride section is not open and I said nothing about riding it in my posts on this website and have not to this day "poached". All I said in my post was that we are riding at Central Park. Now, the fact that you want to jump all over me for riding my bike seems like you are someone who is more into the politics than riding, the way you came across was very rude and I didn't appreciate it. Secondly, there is nothing at Yellow River that says NO BUILDING. I have been riding there for almost a decade now, and you are the first person that has ever said that we were "poaching" the trail. Do me a favor, why don't you stop riding mountain bikes and start riding road bikes so that you don't have anybody to be rude to except for drivers.

I find your response extremely ironic.

biggins · May 18, 2005

given the current state of riding access in the south i can see it from both sides. apparently the person who sent you this PM (i am pretty sure i know who it was)has put in a lot of work to get a riding area and to top it off he sees a lot more people going out there to ride than he sees coming out there to help build, design, passify over zealous beurocrats........i can understand his view as well as yours of feeling verbally attacked and accused maybe it was uncalled for but now that you have both said your piece maybe this thread should just die off into thread heaven.

escapeartist · May 18, 2005

I ride illegal stuff all the time. It sucks but it seems that the best and easiest way to have the stunts and jumps that we want is to go off and build them where we wont be bothered by insurance companies and pissed off neighbors who dont think that having a yard full of dj's is asthetically pleasing. To tell you the truth, I dont think that there is anything wrong with building/riding "illegal" trails like ours. Erosion is kept to a minimum, and they're on city land that isnt used for anything else. So far no one has gotten seriously hurt and the officials seem to look the other way. You can say what you want but i get to ride when i want where i want without signing a waiver and having an insurance company tell me that the stunts arent safe. I think that if the cities arent gonna be tolerant enough about biking to let us do it legaly, then its their loss, and thats not gonna stop me from riding my bike

schweino1 · May 18, 2005

POACHER!!!!

jejejeje JK

Twizzlerdh · May 18, 2005

ya dude i agree. i tried to do a ride/race locally up in nor cal and the forest service said they would throw me in jail if they saw the event go down... that was direct from the forest service special permits devision. fvck them! i ride when i want where i want rain or shine..i say build jumps in the streets.

spoke80 · May 18, 2005

Twizzlerdh said:
ya dude i agree. i tried to do a ride/race locally up in nor cal and the forest service said they would throw me in jail if they saw the event go down... that was direct from the forest service special permits devision. fvck them! i ride when i want where i want rain or shine..i say build jumps in the streets.

Awesome "rage against the machine" tude! Keep it up!

You all are the reason trails get closed!

I think this thread should have been named: "Why I am so core!" :thumb:

escapeartist · May 18, 2005

spoke80 said:
Awesome "rage against the machine" tude! Keep it up!

You all are the reason trails get closed!

I think this thread should have been named: "Why I am so core!"

Come on! It has nothing to do with being "core" which by the way is the worst abbreviation ever. i know Im not hard core, you saying that actually makes me laugh, i wear a friken xc helmet and drive a VW convertible. Are you honestly telling me that if all the trails you ride suddenly became illegal you would sell your bike and throw in the towel? It would take me hours to drive to a legal freeride spot from here in Winston-Salem, and then I would be at the mercy of other trailbuilders, Parks and Rec departments, and insurance companies. I hate to break it to you but thats just not what its all about for me. Im gonna ride where I can have fun and I dont care what the city has to say about it. When it comes down to it I have fun riding and i dont really care what you think about my morals.

P.S. this thread has promted my to amend my sig

formermtboarder · May 18, 2005

i say build jumps in the streets.

dirtjumps down beuna vista? whadda u think
that would be so sick to c all the grumpy republicans bitching out till the police come

any punishment would be worth that

as to poaching, i actually like the local scationed park better than one of the poached spots, but they both have their goods and bads

escapeartist · May 18, 2005

formermtboarder said:
dirtjumps down beuna vista? whadda u think
that would be so sick to c all the grumpy republicans bitching out till the police come

i have a feeling he has no idea what Buena Vista rode is. And its really not that bad. Although we dont have revivals like you neighborhood

sanjuro · May 19, 2005

escapeartist said:
Come on! It has nothing to do with being "core" which by the way is the worst abbreviation ever. i know Im not hard core, you saying that actually makes me laugh, i wear a friken xc helmet and drive a VW convertible. Are you honestly telling me that if all the trails you ride suddenly became illegal you would sell your bike and throw in the towel? It would take me hours to drive to a legal freeride spot from here in Winston-Salem, and then I would be at the mercy of other trailbuilders, Parks and Rec departments, and insurance companies. I hate to break it to you but thats just not what its all about for me. Im gonna ride where I can have fun and I dont care what the city has to say about it. When it comes down to it I have fun riding and i dont really care what you think about my morals.

P.S. this thread has promted my to amend my sig

The problem with your logic is that you are thinking small. Yes, you could ride your local stuff, and the worst thing that would happen is your local parks & rec employees knock your jumps and ramps down.

However, posting on this forum could lead to other trails getting closed. There were many threads about closures at Mt Pisgah (http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117523 and http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111730). The latter thread is the more interesting one: it started innocently when someone suggested shuttling Pisgah. It became a huge battle about riding illegally vs. keeping it quiet. And of course, the Forest Service ended the argument.

The internet is not the place to brag about poaching: http://www.safetrails.net/en_fors.asp. There are eyes watching us, and it does affect all bikers.

profro · May 19, 2005

escapeartist said:
Are you honestly telling me that if all the trails you ride suddenly became illegal you would sell your bike and throw in the towel?

Yes he would. Trust me. He might not throw in the towel, but like me he's abvout riding and not dealing with the crap. Spoke is about riding and excelling at it. I've seen him tackle cyclo-cross, bmx, dirt jumping, downhilling, xc racing, road biking, etc.

:nopity:

spoke80 · May 19, 2005

profro said:
Yes he would. Trust me. He might not throw in the towel, but like me he's abvout riding and not dealing with the crap. Spoke is about riding and excelling at it. I've seen him tackle cyclo-cross, bmx, dirt jumping, downhilling, xc racing, road biking, etc.

Word.

think1up · May 19, 2005

escapeartist said:
I ride illegal stuff all the time. It sucks but it seems that the best and easiest way to have the stunts and jumps that we want is to go off and build them where we wont be bothered by insurance companies and pissed off neighbors who dont think that having a yard full of dj's is asthetically pleasing. To tell you the truth, I dont think that there is anything wrong with building/riding "illegal" trails like ours. Erosion is kept to a minimum, and they're on city land that isnt used for anything else. So far no one has gotten seriously hurt and the officials seem to look the other way. You can say what you want but i get to ride when i want where i want without signing a waiver and having an insurance company tell me that the stunts arent safe. I think that if the cities arent gonna be tolerant enough about biking to let us do it legaly, then its their loss, and thats not gonna stop me from riding my bike

It's amazing to me that people can have this attitude, knowing all to well the access/liability issues so many sports face today. Sure, you can build and ride illegal trails, but sooner or later one of two things will happen: either someone will find them and they will be torn down, or someone will get hurt and they will be torn down.

mountainbiker said:
Secondly, there is nothing at Yellow River that says NO BUILDING.

So with this logic, I should be able to take my dog over to my neighbors yard to take a poop, because he doesnt have a sign that says I cant. The fact is I (and you) should know better. We cannot go on the false premonition that it will be ok. As more and more riders come into the sport, its just going to get worse.

The only way to make our sport thrive and grow is to create sustainable trails with land manager approval. As long as we are looked at as rouge poachers, well never get anything accomplished.

spoke80 · May 19, 2005

think1up said:
It's amazing to me that people can have this attitude, knowing all to well the access/liability issues so many sports face today. Sure, you can build and ride illegal trails, but sooner or later one of two things will happen: either someone will find them and they will be torn down, or someone will get hurt and they will be torn down.

So with this logic, I should be able to take my dog over to my neighbors yard to take a poop, because he doesnt have a sign that says I cant. The fact is I (and you) should know better. We cannot go on the false premonition that it will be ok. As more and more riders come into the sport, its just going to get worse.

The only way to make our sport thrive and grow is to create sustainable trails with land manager approval. As long as we are looked at as rouge poachers, well never get anything accomplished.

Exactly, very well said.

Jeremy R · May 19, 2005

Ben, Doug, etc....,
You guys are trying to talk logically to people with new pubes.
It ain't gonna work. New Pubes are itchy, and they make people
not listen to rational thinking.
So, what is gonna happen is these kids are gonna build illegal stuff,
put alot of hard work into it and then have it destroyed, or even be fined and arrested like what happened in NC.
Then years later, after their Pubes have grown all the way in, they will be on here telling another group of new pubes not to build illegal trails.
Circle of life. :rolleyes:

DVNT · May 19, 2005

i poached some eggs this morning.

well not really that's a lie, i just wanted to fit in.

zod · May 19, 2005

There is no good excuse for building illegal trail, the "there are no signs that say not to" argument is weak at best. My backyard butts up to 300+ acres of private forest, just because my neighbor doesn't have No Tresspassing signs up where my modest acreage meets his doesn't mean his land is fair game for me to hang out on.

urbaindk · May 19, 2005

sanjuro said:
The internet is not the place to brag about poaching: http://www.safetrails.net/en_fors.asp. There are eyes watching us, and it does affect all bikers.

Whoa! That is a scary website.

"Our first concern is SAFETY on our trails. Injury collisions and conflict with mountain bikers and other trail users have caused our concern."

Just how often does this happen? I've been riding 15 years and have never hit or seen anyone hit on a trail by a bike? I'm also an avid hiker and have never had a serious conflict with a mountain biker (unless the trails are really wet then I let them know about it...) These folks sound a bit nutty to me.

formermtboarder · May 19, 2005

really what escapesrtist said is partly true though (btw i do know wheer buena vista is, arbor would work too) although there is a local ds course tahts really it, unless u wanna drive to greensboro. but thats still not fr, we actually did have one illegal spot demolished, but all the ppl who ride at the other wouldnt care if they got hurt. There havnt really been any trees cut and the stunts for the most part are incorporated into natural stuff like already fallen trees and slopes. i think its not a big deal if you dont make a big deal out of it, not super nazi safty/regulations, but not "look at me im cool i ride illegal stuff." i think as long as u dont demolish stuff or cut trees, and try not get hurt (or if u do dont complain to the city) ur straight
chill out worst case is demolished, or very unlikely arrest, though i know a cop who rides illegal all the time, the city really just turns a blind eye.

bizutch · May 19, 2005

YOu two are the biggest idiots I've ever seen. If it's not yours and you aren't granted specific permission to be someplace...it's poaching!

Brag about it. YOu think all trail advocates are puss roadies with luxury cars? There are plenty of trail advocates that would wrap your bike around your ass and leave you for dead.

Next thing...that crap about city officials turning a blind eye...they're not. They got boatloads of stuff to do that's important rather than chase your stupid monkey ass around for cutting illegally...like trying to keep druggies off the streets and improving where you live. But at the drop of a hat they can have you convicted on FEDERAL CHARGES. Then you'll get to occupy a jail cell with some dude that ate pain pills out of his own vomit and reaks of his won urine...but I'm sure you are dying to ride so don't let that stop you.

Geez, if you get permission to ride someplace be happy. If someone sends you a polite email letting you know things are off limits...say thank you and avoid the illegal stuff. Why get defensive when somebody is going out of their way to make sure you've got a place to enjoy your riding. You got serious issues when somebody sends you a letter asking you to encourage others to stay out of an area until it is given the OK. basicly all he said was to wait a little while.

Escapeartist...I'm not threatening you with an ass whooping but I'm betting money you've got a bullseye on your chest courtesy of some of your own local riders. Bragging about illegal stunts is stupid. Being proud of cutting illegal trail in off limits areas in the name of "technical" trails shows you're special in a short bus kind of way. What comes around goes around. Everything negative I've ever done comes back and bites me in the ass when I least expect it. I fully expect it to happen to you.

And anybody that says Spoke80 ain't a manly man must be a major pole smoker! Was that you in Hominy Park yesterday?

escapeartist · May 19, 2005

profro said:
Spoke is about riding and excelling at it. I've seen him tackle cyclo-cross, bmx, dirt jumping, downhilling, xc racing, road biking, etc.

Awesom! Im really glad to hear that, I wish I could ride all that stuff. But alas, Im just a lowley freeride and dj'er, But Im not going to give in when the parks and rec people and an insurance company tell me it's either trade in my bighit for a comfort bike and shred the greenways or quite riding alltogether.

formermtnboarder said:
i think as long as u dont demolish stuff or cut trees, and try not get hurt (or if u do dont complain to the city) ur straight
chill out worst case is demolished, or very unlikely arrest, though i know a cop who rides illegal all the time, the city really just turns a blind eye

Agreed. We ride in a spot thats not known by the whole city so we get no kids on huffys who don't know what their doing and we're not destroying any land. The fact is, the city probably knows about it, but up until now, they havent really cared.

By the way, I really really dont wanna piss anybody here off cause you're all cool people, these are just my opinions.

formermtboarder · May 19, 2005

bizutch said:
YOu two are the biggest idiots I've ever seen. If it's not yours and you aren't granted specific permission to be someplace...it's poaching!

Brag about it. YOu think all trail advocates are puss roadies with luxury cars? There are plenty of trail advocates that would wrap your bike around your ass and leave you for dead.

did i not just say theres no need to brag about it? i dont think its 'cool' its just the only local freeride spot.
people are careful, try not to talk about it and honestally i dont think the city cares, plus if they did ud have to have someone who knew it well before u could tear down all the stunts. Plus i have seen hikers, horses and trail bikers on these trails and there has never seem to be any conflict, were all courteous and leave each other own, and as long as theres no trouble, the trails stay
i really think ur wrong about the city, they have better things to worry about.

the city got a buncha new trails that are bike/hiker/horse friendly, and we got our stunts, everyone should be happy.

motomike · May 19, 2005

This is an argument that will never be won by either side through a forum. stop now and go for a good ride.

bobg · May 19, 2005

Central park XC trail is open...the freeride park is NOT open.

the invite to ride it at work party was extended to you and until it is officially open...you are not allowed to ride it period unless it is in conjunction with offical WP

The land managers office is inside the park (CP) and the park maintainence crew just have to look down the hill and you will be seen, If you choose to ride it you do nothing but hurt the whole project. Which is completely selfish.

I am the president of the bike club that built the trail and have assisted with getting the FR area proposal accepted with TONS of help from the FR community (Sofa).I am also involved with the Mansell (big creek area) and on regular basis run into total assholes who think they have "right" to cross construction fences and ride illegal trails...I'm pretty freakin sick of the attitudes and excuses....100% or the logic I hear is not even relevant....everyone reading this who ride and builds illegally is hurting the possibility of FR in Georgia.

The CP FR area is the 1st frerride area that is built with permission and LOTS of assistance from landmanager, hell there are 15 dunp trucks of sweet red dirrt that they placed at park from free...when do you see that happening....the biggest thing is that when ever another FR area is proposed we all would like to say..." oh yeah...liability...call sos and so over at Forsyth County...he can tell you that we have done this before...and done it "right". That simple statement is worth its weight in gold. How many of you illegal stunt builders build your stunts to IMBA FR standards....None. Building it "right " is a huge effort and takes time....so take the time to help and pitch in instead of bitching about it.

there are lots of great supporting statements here, to many to refer to.....I hope "you" finallly get it...othere wise myself and others, who DO spend all the time on these project WILL be there to ring your bell.

(rant now over and I feel MUCH BETTER)

DVNT I got yer back bro!

formermtboarder · May 19, 2005

escapeartist said:
By the way, I really really dont wanna piss anybody here off cause you're all cool people, these are just my opinions.

word!
nothin like a heated argument!

and these arnt like 'hop the fence' trails, they just deviate from the main trail, if u saw them i think u would agree that we arnt hurting anything...no worries!

escapeartist · May 19, 2005

formermtboarder said:
and these arnt like 'hop the fence' trails, they just deviate from the main trail, if u saw them i think u would agree that we arnt hurting anything...no worries!

Ya, I dont really think you guys understand our situation here, which is cool and makes sense, I have a feeling our setup is different from others.

Let me clear this up; i am in no way trying to brag about riding illegal trails, I dont think that it makes me a hardcore guerrilla freerider, becuase if you go for one ride with me you will realize I'm not. Im not really even a very good rider. We just have very limited riding here in Winston-Salem and we have to make do with what we've got. I would much prefer to ride legal trails all the time, but here that would mean that I would ride about once a month, which just aint gonna happen.

I really really dont wanna piss people off, and I'm really sorry if I gave the impression that I think I'm cool cause I ride illegal trails, and I definetly dont think that trail advocates are roadies with beemers. We obviously have differing opinions, but that doesnt mean I think that your wrong. I appologize if I've offended anybody, Im just sharing my opinions, this is a forum...

Again please dont think that Im an idiot just cause I am vocal about my opinions. I honestly dont care how/where/what you ride, I just think its great that you ride, but i really do think that if you lived/visited here you might understand our situation better.

Please dont hate me

,
Alex

formermtboarder · May 19, 2005

"all I'm gonna say is I ride my bike
I mean really
if I can't find legal trails
it's like sayin, nope I can't smoke pot becuase it's illegal
I guess theyd on't speed either
probably don't drink and drive
or even have sex without a condem
I mean serously
I'm just giving examples
I'd love to have legal trails for my children
but that's what it would be
by the time they are legal
it's time for my kids (that I don't even have yet) to ride them
I ride now"
-anon monkey from a conversation on aim, think about

motomike · May 19, 2005

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

escapeartist · May 19, 2005

Thanks for spreading some love Mike I think we needed it

formermtboarder · May 19, 2005

motomike said:
:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

sry i just wanted to quote that

motomike · May 19, 2005

there's more where that came from

motomike · May 19, 2005

I still see both sides equally. He probably freaked out because he was the one who got the freeride area legalized and is being very overprotective of it. When he saw that thread, he might have known from the past that you were into freeriding and thought "hmmm, I bet this guy is going to go past those signs and get my whole project flattened by the authorities." But you weren't going to do that. We know that. I think this thread just opened up some bad feelings still stuck inside some people from the last "you were riding on illegal trails" thread.

biggins · May 19, 2005

spoke80 · May 20, 2005

Move along, nothing to see here.

I AM A "POACHER"

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