Here is the 24" frame I made. 74 head, 72 seat, 14.25 stays slammed, 22.3 TT, 11.75 BB:
Nice work cornfed. Those specs sound money. Looks sweet, too. You actually built it? In the brew class?
How tall is the seat tube, center to center?
http://www.brewracingframes.com/id56.htmcornfed- not sure where exactly you made your frame/the place you were taught at
You basically restated my point. Prototypes take more time. Exactly.cornfed- not sure where exactly you made your frame/the place you were taught at... but there is no reason to "painstakingly handgrind" a miter...even on a "prototype." All the frames I've made were all prototypes, but I set up the jig, layed the frame out, and mitered all the tubes on our mill using a hole saw. Proto's cost more because it practically always takes the builder MORE time to fix a jig for the customers desired geometry.
As per the jig you used, that's the jig layout I've built all my frames on too. It allows you to weld more of the frame while in the jig to prevent distortion and also gives you tons of open space to play with tubes and get whatever look you want.
Cad layout of one of the fixtures I used..
Sorry if I've interpreted what you've said wrong... but in bold you have stated that if it is a proto/one-off frame, the miters must be hand-ground. I was just stating that as false information. Obviously if you do not have access to the tools, you do what you gotta do. Sorry if it came across as a personal attack as that was not my intent.The jig I used just holds the head tube, seat tube, BB shell, and dropouts in place. The top, down, and stays are not held in any way so they can be "floated" around to where ever I thought would be best. Because this thing is a one-off (essentially a prototype), all the miters had to be painstakingly hand ground. For production frames, where a Co wants the design to be consistent, all the miters could be cut w/ a hole saw on a Bridgeport or something to crank out 50 TT's, down tubes, etc all in one shot, reducing production time considerably. Proto's/ one-off's will always cost more...more time consuming for this reason.
It's all good. :biggrin:All is well.. Just misinformed is all.
Ahhh, see...debating can be fun on the internet.AMEN TO THAT. I still, however, would argue against this method... At least he was willing to use SOME sort of a jig. If done right, you can get away with nothing, sure, but jigs and the expensive equipment make sure its done right (with user input, obviously).
Very cool post thought.
Isnt the intraweb greatAhhh, see...debating can be fun on the internet.
This is the part where I counter your response,lol.
A mill doesn't guarantee higher QUALITY, just FASTER production time. Hole saws get dull and tear tubes, or distort them if cut too quickly, etc. There are plenty of MFR's, past and present, who build with your preferred method and produce crap (please, in no way is this any reference to you. I have seen your bike and it is sick). From what I understand, the author's frames were highly regarded for quality, and his frames are highly sought after by collectors. Granted, your method could produce a frame in a few hours, where the author's would take a few weeks. Your method has more potential to be more profitable. But then again, the author doesn't have that hefty note hanging over his head for all that expensive machining equipment.
A straight frame is a straight frame, jig or not. I don't think quality discriminates. We aren't debating QUALITY; we are debating PHILOSOPHY.
Would you rather have a high-quality frame built in a few hours by a builder w/ high-tech equipment, or would you prefer the quality built in by a craftsmen who passionately and intimately invested a small chunk of his life to his craft?
In my opinion, there is no right or wrong answer.
Agreed. But...I would have to say that frame building alone cannot be dictated by strictly your philosophy on welding, jigging, mittering, etc... BUT rather the quality of the tubing, patients of the builder, the builders' personal skill/talents
Nothing wrong with that.lets be real... some people ride the bikes, other people build them/fix them. Thats just how the world works)
Me neither, and frankly, you wouldn't catch me hand filing every miter or component of a frame in the building process w/o some sort of power tooling/tech. I am just not that patient. But I sure do respect it.Sure.. hole-saws die, sometimes distort, and if not careful can easily be damaged. But in my opinion, this still comes down to the builder and the tooling he/she chooses to use. Hell... I know you wouldn't catch me DEAD filling a tube with a dull, worn down file
Cool thanks, I missed this comment. It is a Hutch. I have Hutch Beartrap pedals on this bike too, but they are the cast type with the words HUTCH in them. Was this design your dad's too, or just the original, Titron version was your dad's?Yes... I do believe that was a Hutch product. However, he may have designed/produced that before hutch under TiTron as well. That is what went down with the hubs/bear traps/spindles.
Frame Building Class
Bumpage. Been super busy lately with a new job and moving out to Ventura, but we have two new prototype frames on the way. These will actually be 24" bmx cruiser frames. The basic geo hasn't changed, but I did go with smaller diameter stays and an internally butted seat tube to lighten up the frames compared to the last samples. I also made sure that there won't be an indentation on the outside of the chain stay for chainwheel clearance. Should clear a 30. Here is one of the drawings.
Specs:
TT - 22.3
BB - 12.7
CS - 14.25
ST - 9
HA - 74
Hopefully we will have them within a few months!
i'm running 7 5/8" bars on mine......Have you worked out how tall of bars to run with this frame?
This frame is 22.3 TT, the other sample will be 21.9. It's hard to compare actual TT lengths across different wheel sized bikes. I would like it to feel like a 21" bmx, but still have tire clearance for x-ups/barspins.can't wait to see the protos.
The actual TT is longer than I anticipated.
Have you worked out how tall of bars to run with this frame? In other words: what would match a 20" with 8" rise bars or a 26" with a 3" travel fork and 2" rise bars?
Haha. The specs on the method 24 actually aren't that bad. Full chromo, 22 tt, 73 ha, 15.3 cs, not sure about bb height. I may pick one up for comparison.cru - are you going to help Giant dial in the geo on the Method 24? You don't have to answer that question ha ha.