[Zonic Man]

Originally posted by llkoolkeg


The study of philosophy, primarily Western, taught me that(in a nutshell) the reigns of the world are held not by the the moderate 10% of people with the brains and character to lead well, but by the 10% of the population at either extreme who have the passion and determination(but none of the sense) to herd the apathetic masses-in-the-middle to whatever rhetorical cause is currently in style.

My study of philosophy has taught me that the more I learn, the less I know.

Regarding what you wrote there...how very Hegel of you. Obviously NOT a Machiavellian.

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by RideMonkey
Sheesh this thread brings back memories of every family gathering I've had in the last 10 years. My conservative religious grandparents would praise the words in that post.

Just for the record, I would be considered conservative religious as well...however, while I don't agree with anyone insulting anyone at ALL (because it's not cool - although I understand why you felt as you did, for sure), I would definitely agree that the whole 'bad American' thing has a racist bent to it. Not all of us conservative religious nuts are 100% closed minded about EVERYTHING.

 

[gecko]

Originally posted by Toshi

Yeah, seriously. Harvard defines "liberal bastion" apparently to Heston. How did I ever turn out Libertarian in this place?

Toshi, you might appreciate this, I think it's pretty damn funny. Conan O'Brien's speach to the class of 2000 at Harvard:

I’d like to begin by thanking the class marshals for inviting me here today. The last time I was invited to Harvard it cost me $110,000. So I was reluctant to show up. I’m going to start before I really begin by announcing my one goal this afternoon. I want to be half as funny as tomorrow’s Commencement speaker, moral philosopher and economist Amartya Sen. That’s the job. Must get more laughs than seminal wage-price theoretician. By the way, enjoy that. Bring a calculator. It’s going to be a nerd fest.

Students of the Harvard class of 2000, 15 years ago I sat where you sit now. And I thought exactly what you are now thinking. What’s going to happen to me? Will I find my place in the world? Am I really graduating a virgin? Still have 24 hours. Roommate’s mom very hot. Swear she’s checking me out. There was that Rob Lowe movie.

Being here today, on a sincere note, is very special for me. I do miss this place. I especially miss Harvard Square. Let me tell you, (you don’t know this) Harvard Square is unique. Nowhere else in the world will you find a man wearing a turban and a Red Sox jacket working in a lesbian bookstore. I’m just glad my dad’s working.

It’s particularly sweet for me to be here today because—this is true—when I graduated I wanted very badly to be a Class Day speaker. Unfortunately, my speech was rejected. So if you’ll indulge me I’d like to read a portion of that speech. This is the actual speech from 15 years ago. “Fellow students, as we sit here today listening to that classic A-ha tune which will definitely stand the test of time, I would like to make several predictions about what the future will hold. I believe that one day a simple governor from a small southern state will rise to the highest office in the land. He will lack political skill, but will lead on the sheer strength of his moral authority. I believe that justice will prevail and one day the Berlin Wall will crumble, uniting East and West Berlin forever under Communist rule. I believe that one day a high-speed network of interconnected computers will spring up worldwide, so enriching people that they will lose their interest in idle chitchat and pornography. And finally, I believe that one day I will have a television show on a major network seen by millions of people at night which I will use to reenact crimes and and help catch at-large criminals.” Then I had a section on the death of Wall Street, but you don’t need to hear about that.

The point is that although you see me as a celebrity, a member of the cultural elite, a demigod if you will, and potential husband material, I came here in the fall of 1981 and lived at Holworthy Hall as a student much like you. I was, without exaggeration—this is true—the ugliest picture in the freshman facebook. When Harvard asked me for a picture the previous summer, I thought it was for their records, so I jogged in the August heat to a passport photo office and sat for a morgue shot. To make matters worse, when the facebook came out, they put my picture right next to Catherine Oxenberg, a stunning blonde actress who was expected to join the class of ‘85, but decided to defer admission so she could join the cast of Dynasty. Folks, my photo would have looked bad on any page, but next to Catherine Oxenberg, I looked like a mackerel that had been in a car accident.

You see, in those days, I was 6 feet 4 inches tall and I weighed 150 pounds. True. Recently, I had some structural engineers run those numbers into a computer model, and according to the computer, I collapsed in 1987, killing hundreds in Taiwan.

After freshman year, I moved to Mather House. Mather House, incidentally, was designed by the same firm that built Hitler’s bunker. In fact, if Hitler had conducted the war from Mather House, he would have shot himself a year earlier. Saved us a lot of trouble.

1985 seems like a long time ago now. When I had my Class Day, you students would have been seven years old. Seven years old! You realize what that means? Back then I could have beaten any of you in a fight. And I mean really badly. Like no contest at all. If anyone here has a time machine, seriously, I will kick your seven-year-old butt right now.

A lot has happened in 15 years though. When you think about it, we come from completely different worlds. When I graduated in 1985, we watched movies starring Tom Cruise and listened to music by Madonna. I come from a time when we huddled around the TV set and watched the Cosby Show on NBC, never imagining that there would one day be a show called Cosby on CBS. In 1985 we drove cars with driver’s-side air bags. But if you had told us that one day there would be passenger-side air bags, we’d have burned you for witchcraft.

Of course I think there is some common ground between us. I remember well the great uncertainty of this day, the anxiety. Many of you are justifiably nervous about leaving the safe, comfortable world of Harvard Yard and hurling yourself headlong into the cold, harsh world of Harvard grad school, a plum job in your father’s firm, or a year abroad with a gold Amex card and then a plum job at your father’s firm. Let me assure you that the knowledge you gained here at Harvard is a precious gift that will never leave you. Take it from me, your education is yours to keep forever. Why, many of you have read the Merchant of Florence, and that will inspire you when you travel to the island of Spain. Your knowledge of that problem they had with those people in Russia, or that guy in South America—you know, the guy—will be with you for the rest of your life.

There’s also sadness today. A feeling of loss that you’re leaving Harvard forever. Let me assure you that you never really leave Harvard. The Harvard fundraising committee will be on your ass until the day you die.

This is true. I know for a fact that right now a member of the alumni association is at the Mount Auburn Cemetery shaking down the corpse of Henry Adams. They heard he has a brass toe ring and they aim to get it. These people just raised $2.5 billion and they only got through the Bs in the alumni directory. Here’s basically how it works. Your phone rings, usually after a big meal when you’re tired and most vulnerable, and a voice asks you for money. Knowing—you’ve read in the paper—that they just raised $2.5 billion, you ask, “What do you need it for?” There is a long pause, and the voice on the other end of the line says, “We don’t need it, we just want it.” (Sinister laugh).

Let me see—by your applause—who here wrote a thesis? That’s nice. A lot of hard work went into that thesis. And no one is ever going to care. I wrote a thesis—this is true, I don’t lie—“Literary Progeria in the Works of Flannery O’Connor and William Faulkner.” Let’s just say that during my discussions with Pauly Shore, it doesn’t come up much. For three years after graduation I wanted to show it to everyone, and so I kept my thesis in the glove compartment of my car, so that I could show it to a policeman in case I was pulled over.

What else can you expect in the real world? Let me tell you. As you leave these gates and re-enter society, one thing is certain. Everyone out there is going to hate you. Never tell anyone in a roadside diner that you went to Harvard. In those situations, the correct response to, “Where did you go to school?” is “School? I never had much in the way of book learnin’ and such.” And then get in your BMW and get the hell out of there. Go.

You see, kids, you’re in for a lifetime of “And you went to Harvard?” Accidentally give the wrong amount of change in a transaction, and it’s “And you went to Harvard?” Ask at the hardware store how the jumper cables work, and hear “And you went to Harvard?” Forget just once that your underwear goes inside your pants, and it’s “And you went to Harvard?” Get your head stuck in your niece’s doll house ‘cause you want to see what it’s like to be a giant, and it’s “Uncle Conan, you went to Harvard?”

So you really know what’s in store for you after Harvard, I have to tell you what happened to me after graduation. I’m going to tell it simply, I’m going to tell it honestly, because, first of all, I think my perspective may give many of you hope, and, secondly, it’s such a cool, amazing rush to be in front of 6,000 people and just talk about yourself. It’s just great. It’s so cool. And I can take my time.

cont...

 

[gecko]

cont...

You see, kids, after graduating in May, I moved to Los Angeles. I got a three-week contract at a small cable show. I got a $380-a-month apartment, a terrible dump, and I bought a 1977 Isuzu Opal, a car Isuzu only manufactured for a year because they found out that technically it’s not a car. Quick tip, graduates—no four-cylinder used vehicle should have a racing stripe.

So I worked on that show for about a year, feeling pretty good about myself, when one day they told me that they were letting me go. I was fired. I hadn’t saved any money. So I tried to get another job in television as best I could and couldn’t find one. So with nowhere else to turn-true story—I went to a temp agency and filled out a questionnaire. I made damn sure that they knew I had been to Harvard, that I had written this thesis, and that I expected the very best treatment. And so the next day I was sent to the Santa Monica branch of Wilson’s House of Suede and Leather.

When you have a Harvard degree, and you are working at Wilson’s House of Suede and Leather, you are haunted by the ghostly images of your classmates who chose graduate school. You see their faces everywhere—in coffee cups, in fish tanks, you think you’re going crazy, and they’re always laughing at you as you stack suede shirts no man in good conscience would ever wear.

I tried a lot of things during this period. Acting in corporate infomercials. Serving drinks in a nonequity theater. I even took a job entertaining at a seven year-old’s birthday party. In desperate need of work, I put together some sketches and scored a job at the fledgling Fox network as a writer and performer for a brainy show called the “Wilton North Report.” I was finally on a network and really excited. The producer told me the show was going to revolutionize television. And, in a way it did. The show was so hated and did so badly that when four weeks later news of its cancellation was announced to the Fox affiliates, they burst into spontaneous applause.

Eventually, though, I got a big break. I had submitted along with my writing partner a batch of sketches to Saturday Night Live, and after a year and a half they read it, and they gave us a two-week tryout. The two weeks turned into two seasons, and I felt, hey, this is success, I’m successful now. Successful enough to write a TV pilot for an original sitcom. When the network decided to make it, feeling good, I left Saturday Night Live.

This TV show was going to be groundbreaking. It was going to resurrect the career of TV’s Batman, Adam West. It was going to be a comedy without a laugh track or a studio audience. It was going to change all the rules. And here’s what happened. When the pilot aired, it was the second-lowest-rated television show of all time. It is actually tied with a test pattern they show up in Nova Scotia.

So I was 28 and, once again, no job. I had good writing credits in New York, but I was filled with disappointment and I had no idea what I was going to do next. And that is when the Simpsons saved my life. I got a job there and started writing episodes about Springfield getting a monorail or Homer going to college. I was finally putting my Harvard education to good use—writing dialogue for a man who is so stupid that in one episode he forgot to make his own heart beat. Life was good.

And then an insane, inexplicable opportunity came my way, a chance to audition for host of the new “Late Night” show. I took the opportunity very seriously, but at the time—I have to be honest—I had the relaxed confidence of someone who knew he had no real shot, so I couldn’t fear losing a great job that I could never hope to have. And I think that actually that attitude made the difference.

I will never forget being in the Simpsons recording basement that morning when the phone rang. It was for me. My car was blocking a firelane. But a week later I got another call and got the job. So this, finally, was undeniably it. The truly life-altering break that I had always dreamed of. And so I went to work. I gathered all my funny friends and poured all my years of comedy experience into building the show over the summer. I gathered the talent, figured out the sensibility, found Max, found Andy, found my people. We debuted on September 13, 1993, and I was really happy, really happy, with our effort. I felt like I had seized the moment, that I had put my very best foot forward.

And this was what the most respected and widely read television critic, Tom Shales, wrote in the Washington Post. “O’Brien is a living collage of annoying nervous habits. He giggles and jiggles about and fiddles with his cuffs. He has dark, beady little eyes like a rabbit. He is one of the whitest white men ever. O’Brien is a switch on the guest who won’t leave: he’s the host who should never have come. Let the Late Show with Conan O’Brien become the late Late Show, and may the host return to whence he came.” There’s more, but it gets kind of mean.

Needless to say, I took a lot of criticism, some of it deserved, some of it excessive, and, to be honest with you, it hurt like you would not believe. But I’m telling you all this for a reason. I’ve had a lot of success. I’ve had a lot of failure. I’ve looked good. I’ve looked bad. I’ve been praised. And I’ve been criticized. But my mistakes have been necessary. I’ve dwelled on my failures today because, as graduates of Harvard, your biggest liability is your need to succeed, your need to always find yourself on the sweet side of the bell curve. Success is a lot like a bright white tuxedo. You feel terrific when you get it, but then you’re desperately afraid of getting it dirty, of spoiling it.

I left the cocoon of Harvard, I left the cocoon of Saturday Night Live, I left the cocoon of the Simpsons. And each time it was bruising and tumultuous. And yet every failure was freeing, and today I’m as nostalgic for the bad as I am for the good. So that’s what I wish for all of you—the bad as well as the good. Fall down. Make a mess. Break something occasionally. Know that your mistakes are your own unique way of getting to where you need to be. And remember that the story is never over.

If you’ll indulge me for just a second, I’d like to read a little something from just this year. “Somehow, Conan O’Brien has transformed himself into the brightest star in the late-night firmament. His comedy is the gold standard, and Conan himself is not only the quickest and most inventive wit of his generation, but quite possibly the greatest host ever.”

Ladies and gentlemen, class of 2000, I wrote that this morning. As proof that when all else fails, you always have delusion. I will go now to make bigger mistakes and to embarrass this fine institution even more. But let me leave you with one last thought. If you can laugh at yourself, loud and hard, every time you fall, people will think you’re drunk. Thank you.

 

[Danchez]

ted or whoever wrote it is 95% on the money. i don't think that certified drunk's post had very much slant. i think that rm's reply had much more slant and was steeped in much more bitterness that the former. rm twisted his statements and made certdrunk look like a fool. not very classy. especiabut since he's supposed to be mature here. but it's his place so we're guests. still lame if you ask me. nobody did. did they? sucks for you doesn't it?

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by gecko
If you’ll indulge me for just a second, I’d like to read a little something from just this year. “Somehow, Conan O’Brien has transformed himself into the brightest star in the late-night firmament. His comedy is the gold standard, and Conan himself is not only the quickest and most inventive wit of his generation, but quite possibly the greatest host ever.”

Ladies and gentlemen, class of 2000, I wrote that this morning. As proof that when all else fails, you always have delusion. I will go now to make bigger mistakes and to embarrass this fine institution even more. But let me leave you with one last thought. If you can laugh at yourself, loud and hard, every time you fall, people will think you’re drunk. Thank you.

Thanks for posting that, gecko. I'm actually getting a bit nervous about my future, even tho I have a year left. I think I'm going to take the "year abroad with a gold Amex card" then the "cold, harsh world of Harvard grad school" if I can swing it.

 

[Zonic Man]

That Conan thing was a peach.

 

[Tenaciousle0]

studies using satellites and non urban heating aras have shown that global temperature s are actually dropping, and geolgic records show that we are actually going in to an ice age.

As far as the Ozone hole is concerned: A new study from Japan shows that due to the various laws banning cfc's and other harmful chemicals the ozone will be whole again by 2060.

 

[ibismojo]

Originally posted by LeatherFace


So, please tell me, what other kinds of "fags" are there but gays?

cigarettes? or are those called figs in England....

 

[ibismojo]

Originally posted by Zonic Man


My study of philosophy has taught me that the more I learn, the less I know.

hmm...Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty?

 

[Zonic Man]

Originally posted by ibismojo


hmm...Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty?

Nope, Jed's Principle of Idiocy.

 

[ibismojo]

Originally posted by Zonic Man


Nope, Jed's Principle of Idiocy.

suprisingly similar the Heisenberg theory...i think you're onto something.

 

[Shortbus]

yeeha!!!! guns and fireworks!!!!!!!!!

 

[llkoolkeg]

Originally posted by Zonic Man
My study of philosophy has taught me that the more I learn, the less I know. Regarding what you wrote there...how very Hegel of you. Obviously NOT a Machiavellian.

ignorance. If you haven't the capacity to comprehend human potential, you haven't the capacity to comprehend how far short of it you fall.

 

[JOhnG]

Originally posted by Certified Drunk
YES I'M A BAD AMERICAN


I am your worst Nightmare. I am a BAD American. I am Bill Lukshides.

I believe the money i make belongs to me and my family, and not some mid level governmental functionary be it Democratic or Republican!

and i'm a socialist and belive that about half of your money should go to the goverment. if your making millions by digging big holes in our planet and spilling oilm all over the alaskin coast you should give some of your money to help a kid in the ghetto pay for his cancer treatment.

I'm in touch with my feelings and i like it that way, damn it!

O.K.

I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer, it makes you a smart American.

i think if guns were banished and wiped out nobady would need a gun to "protect" themselves

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized , and does not entitle you to anything.

no being a minority doesn't entital you to those things but you do diserve some help so you and your fellow racists in upper managment can't keep every hispanc person in this nation unemployed


I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, try to do it in ENGLISH.

i belive that is the most racest thing i have heard all day. tell meagain why you care if someone is trying to sell people other than you burgers?


I think fireworks should be legal on the 4th of July.

they are here

I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster. In fact, if your parents are footing the bill to put your pansy ass through 4 years plus, of college, you haven't begun to be enlightened.

mabye if you went to collage you would change your mind, no?

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God when and where they want to.

yes, but people sould not bne forced to pray to someone elses god

My heroes are John Wayne, Babe Ruth, Roy Rogers, and whoever cancels Jerry Springer.

but i love jerry

I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.

i have nothing witty to say here, i agree

I know wrestling is fake and i don't waste my time arguing about it.

again i agree

I think global warming is a big lie. Where are all those experts now, when i'm freezing my ass off during these long winters and speings and paying, paying, paying?

hmmm.... would you like to ghive me some statistics or studies? oh no are you just another armchair scientist?

I've never owned a slave, or was a slave, i didn't wander forty years in the desert after getting chased out of Egypt. I haven't burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks and neither have you! So, shut-the-hell-up already.

but your ancestors did wipe out the native amaricans and ruined familys for several generations. have you ever been to a reservation? if you went you might just see how badly we screwed up there lives

I want to know which church is it exactly where the Reverend Jesse Jackson practices, where he gets his money, and why he is always part of the problem and not the solution? Can i get an AMEN on that one?

wow, a blck demacratic revrand, hmmm... i wonder why you have a problem w/ that

I think the cops have every right to shoot you sorry ass if you're running from them.

can they shoot at me if i pull out my wallet?

I also think they have the right to pull your ass over in you're breaking the law, regardless of what color you are.

i guess this means you don't belive that racial profiling actually occors, LOL

I think if you are too stupid to know how a ballot works, i don't want you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation in the world for the next four years.

my old teacher who is one of the smartest people i have ever knomen lives in the disputed florda county and she had truble w/ the ballot

I dislike those people standing in the intersections trying to sell me crap or trying to guilt me into making "donations" to their cause. These people should be targets.

"Targets?" thats preety hars, mabye they wouldn't have to stand there if those republican oil barrons donated about .5% of thier income

I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes two parents.

even if thier drunks?

I believe if she has her lips on your Willie, it's sex, and this applies even if you are the President of the United States.

why do you care who thew president had sex w/? shouldn't that be his own bussness even if he is the president?

If this makes me a BAD American, then yes, I'm a BAD American.

no your not a bad amarican, you just need some far left brain washing

We need our country back!

when did we lose it, oh yea when that idiot, g.w. bush became president and let all big bussness get off the hook and didn't stop the terroists

GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.

 

[JOhnG]

Originally posted by mr_dove
I also think that there are way too many people on this board to seem to have something up their A$$. Some people here seem to get offended at ANYTHING relating to fags (not gay, fags) , minorities or anything else.

it really makes me sad to see that kind of stuff fag is the equvilent of nigger and you know if you ever called a black persond "a ****ing nigger" you would get your ass wooped by everyone but the KKK so why is it okay to say " ****ing fag." it's the same thing

 

[JOhnG]

wow it automaticaly sensors ****

 

[LeatherFace]

Originally posted by ibismojo


cigarettes? or are those called figs in England....

You are correct, but mr_dove was not talking about cigarettes in his post...:angry:

 

[ridetoofast]

im surprised and saddened to see this facet added to the RM board. two subjects that almost can never be discussed without passions flaring are politics and religion. there are enough things in this world that "spin me tight" without having to see it here...i know, i know, just don't look right? well i did and some of things I read i find truly disturbing.

gun control: do people really think that if you outlaw them (guns) people will no longer die at the hands of others using them? aren't criminals aka "outlaws" called that for a reason. look at any major city(new york, dc, chigcao) where STRICT gun laws are in place and crime is RAMPANT. aside from that, our founding fathers had a very GOOD reason for the common man to be armed. look at any recent civil unrest/government turmoil and you'll likely see the first thing that occured was the confiscation of private arms. shouldn't it concern you that the government YOU elected doesn't trust YOU, a law abiding citizen to own a firearm?...this topic in and of itself can rage on and on...this is just my two cents.

racism/intolerance: why is it that the scarlet letter/phrase "RACISM" is only ever bandied (sp?) about in one direction? the actions of the likes of the Reverend Al Sharpton, and Jesses Jackson, were they to be carried out by that most insideous demogrpahic sector WHM White Heterosexual Male, they would be CRUICIFIED by the establishment media. i could sample a few 'ghansta' lyrics, and if the message of said lyrics were reversed and directed in the opposiste direction....well im sure you can figure out what would happen. the point is racism goes BOTH ways. im am SO tired of race always having to be an issue...
why is it that if i dont agree with the agressive tactics of GLAAD and the likes I am intolerant? what happened to my right to find something disagreeable? why should children be assaulted at a grade school age with discussions about "alternative lifestyles" when all they should be caring about is playing tag or the likes?

english as a primary language: does the phrase 'balkinization' mean anything to anyone out there? im not saying that immigrants should be chained to a desk with their eyelids taped open and brainwashed to speak english, but if english is not deemed neccessary, or worse yet, if bilinguialism (sp?) becomes a standard, what incentive is there to learn the language and become an intergral part of this society? there are several states that are recanting the bi-lingual education standard in favor of immersion to facilitate an accelerated learning curve and quicker acclimation to the academic environment.

it takes a village: party affiliation aside, how much more supremely arrogant can the unamed author be than to tell parents how to raise their own children?

lips on the willie: that act of sex had nothing to do with it...it was the perjury and obstruction of justice that occurred after said event that was so offensive.

florida fiasco: interpreting indentations of chad? please...
let the machine count it

and perhaps the most disappointing of all, whether we are guests or not, RM is IMHO to be a moderator, and yet his reply was replete was sarcasm and indignation

 

[Zonic Man]

Originally posted by ridetoofast
im surprised and saddened to see this facet added to the RM board. two subjects that almost can never be discussed without passions flaring are politics and religion. there are enough things in this world that "spin me tight" without having to see it here...i know, i know, just don't look right? well i did and some of things I read i find truly disturbing.

and perhaps the most disappointing of all, whether we are guests or not, RM is IMHO to be a moderator, and yet his reply was replete was sarcasm and indignation

Word.

 

[dg806]

Originally posted by SHWA
Owning a gun makes you a smarter american?????? where do you come up with this sh*t? Were not fighting for our indepenence from england anymore........you dont need to own a deadly weapon.

Oh yeah?? What ya gonna do when late one night a burgler breaks into your house and has another gun or some type of weapon he intends to kill you with? Robberies? Car highjackings? Name it! If it happened to you wouldn't you want to protect yourself? I know I would. I not going to let some drug induced criminal take me out of this world or more importantly one of my family members, for what? A few measly dollars? I suppose your one of the bleeding heart liberals too!

 

[Spud]

I'm a bleeding heart liberal, with a nice (and growing) collection of guns. Never felt the need to keep any around for home protection though. Must just live in a good neighborhood.....

 

[Spud]

 

[Damn True]

Gun control = using two hands.

 

[ridetoofast]

Originally posted by Damn True
Gun control = using two hands.

amen brother , or sic. sarcasm...gun control=privalegded/elite(yes)...joe schmoe (no)

 

[Dog Welder]

Originally posted by Certified Drunk
We need our country back!

God BLESS THE U.S.A.

Who took away our country? England? I know black folks sure don't own the country. Back to when? 1950's values? Where minorities HAD to sit in the back of the bus. Where Japanese-AMERICANS where forced out of their property and incarcerated into detention camps? Or even now with American citizens being held indefinitely being held in PRISON because they are accused of being terrorists. Whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty? This ain't communist China..or is it? S#it like this didn't happen hundreds of years ago...I'm willing to bet that some of you were alive then. I'm done..arguing over the internet is pointless. To many cowards soap boxing on the internet.

Buddha bless the USA.

 

[Slice]

argue. So I will pick "we need our country back". We can't go back 50 years, but we could go back to a time when people had self respect, not self pride. A time when if you stubbed your tow on your friends porch it was your fault for being clumsy. When you could fire someone who doesn't fit your organization without worrying about a law suit (sorry ZM). When you could RIDE A GOD DAMN SINGLE TRACK without some jerk off inviro nazzi trying to kill you. When imagrants came here to be americans and only the most ignorant americans couldn't appreciate it. When special interest groups didn't run our government. And finally, when you could tell the difference between a demicrat and a republican.
One more, a time when you could have yor own opinion and no one really cared what it was, except you.

Did this time ever exist?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by Slice
argue. So I will pick "we need our country back". We can't go back 50 years, but we could go back to a time when people had self respect, not self pride. A time when if you stubbed your tow on your friends porch it was your fault for being clumsy. When you could fire someone who doesn't fit your organization without worrying about a law suit (sorry ZM). When you could RIDE A GOD DAMN SINGLE TRACK without some jerk off inviro nazzi trying to kill you. When imagrants came here to be americans and only the most ignorant americans couldn't appreciate it. When special interest groups didn't run our government. And finally, when you could tell the difference between a demicrat and a republican.
One more, a time when you could have yor own opinion and no one really cared what it was, except you.

Did this time ever exist?

Well put Judy

 

[Dog Welder]

Originally posted by Slice
argue. So I will pick "we need our country back". We can't go back 50 years, but we could go back to a time when people had self respect, not self pride. A time when if you stubbed your tow on your friends porch it was your fault for being clumsy. When you could fire someone who doesn't fit your organization without worrying about a law suit (sorry ZM). When you could RIDE A GOD DAMN SINGLE TRACK without some jerk off inviro nazzi trying to kill you. When imagrants came here to be americans and only the most ignorant americans couldn't appreciate it. When special interest groups didn't run our government. And finally, when you could tell the difference between a demicrat and a republican.
One more, a time when you could have yor own opinion and no one really cared what it was, except you.

Did this time ever exist?

Excellent points...did this time ever exist?...I don't think so cuz if you did go back to a time where a sembelence (sp?) of what you're talking about existed...you'd also have to go back to all the negatives of that time...ie. Cyndi Lauper, neon pink leg warmers, big hair, and sport coats rolled up at the sleaves...I think I can say for all of us that we don't ever want to go back to that era.

 

[cwbastian]

God, I hate whiney, mealy-mouthed liberals who think they can spend MY money better than I can by flushing it down some goverment rat hole disguised as a "program". We've paid for 40 years of such "programs" and public housing is still full of degenerate crackheads who steal from decent people while living off their tax dollars. Oh yeah, I also hate misinformed pussies who think gun control equals safety. Stupid ****s.

 

[Spud]

Wow a blast from the past. 12 month old thread rolls back up to the top......

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by cwbastian
God, I hate whiney, mealy-mouthed liberals who think they can spend MY money better than I can by flushing it down some goverment rat hole disguised as a "program". We've paid for 40 years of such "programs" and public housing is still full of degenerate crackheads who steal from decent people while living off their tax dollars. Oh yeah, I also hate misinformed pussies who think gun control equals safety. Stupid ****s.

I'm guessing you can do a better job running things? Hmm, wait, the government's red tape is slower than your response to this thread, so you have my vote!

 

[BurlyShirley]

I guess Im a horrible F***ing american, because i agree with both ted nugent and george carlin. Actually, i guess most people serving in the US military who are willing to die are horrible americans because id venture to guess that they'd agree with alot of what was said. Go figure.

 

[rbx]

racisms seems to be a hot topic these days on RM!

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by rbx
racisms seems to be a hot topic these days on RM!

not just these days since this thread is a year old.

 

[Jorvik]

Mmmm... Year old thread...

I agree with everything Ted Nugent said.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

maybe because most soldiers are hot blooded guys with minds trained to obbey rather than think.

basically there are only 2 things a soldier is good for. to kill and be killed. unfortunately.
and any other is just a product of these 2.

and that romanticed idea of soldiers that die for their country is not so exact, actually most modern wars are not fought because of real freedom , or because somebody is gonna kill all your family, or enslave you.

most modern wars are fought for economic reasons, and when a soldier die, is not because he is protecting his family or country, its because he died defending the economic interests of some group.

also most soldiers are in the army because its a job, and because they get paid and get benefits and dying is a risk of their profession, not the ultimate act of giving to their country.

we just get that romanticed idea because they need to attract new recruits, and selling the idea of "heroic death" kinda makes up for the idea of having a dangeous job.

if soldiers where ad honorem volunteers fighting an independance or defensive war, then we can talk about heroic deaths.
else, are just mercenaries who can have with very good intentions, nonetheless.

well, jorge luis borges said once "am a writer because i was not stupid enough to be in the army"

go figure



now, go ahead and bash me.

Originally posted by BurlySurly
I guess Im a horrible F***ing american, because i agree with both ted nugent and george carlin. Actually, i guess most people serving in the US military who are willing to die are horrible americans because id venture to guess that they'd agree with alot of what was said. Go figure.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by ALEXIS_DH
maybe because most soldiers are hot blooded guys with minds trained to obbey rather than think.

Your point is taken, but i get the feeling that you've misinterpreted what i meant in the first place. Regardless of why anyone joins the military, they're still the one's doing alot of the dirty work for the country. They complete tasks ordered down directly from the ones in charge of the country. They're doing the will of the voters (in theory) and hence, putting their lives on the line for the average joe. They work for America.
To insinuate that one must be stupid to join the army (or any military branch for that matter) is an unfair, uninformed and illogical projection. As you said "soldiers are in the army because its a job, and because they get paid and get benefits, " which seems perfectly logical to me. The added bonus is serving your country.
Id also be willing to bet that many veterans of wars that did indeed help keep much of the world free would be so called "bad americans" because of their conservative values.

Oh, and jorge luis borges can kiss my a$$ because i joined the Marines to become a writer.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Your point is taken, but i get the feeling that you've misinterpreted what i meant in the first place. Regardless of why anyone joins the military, they're still the one's doing alot of the dirty work for the country. They complete tasks ordered down directly from the ones in charge of the country. They're doing the will of the voters (in theory) and hence, putting their lives on the line for the average joe. They work for America.
To insinuate that one must be stupid to join the army (or any military branch for that matter) is an unfair, uninformed and illogical projection. As you said "soldiers are in the army because its a job, and because they get paid and get benefits, " which seems perfectly logical to me. The added bonus is serving your country.
Id also be willing to bet that many veterans of wars that did indeed help keep much of the world free would be so called "bad americans" because of their conservative values.

Oh, and jorge luis borges can kiss my a$$ because i joined the Marines to become a writer.

ok, they are doing the will of the ones in charge, who are supossed to decide based on the will of voters and defend the average joe.

this is what u think, and history can prove you wrong.
the decision of going to war or not, is seldom based on the well being of the average joe (remember vietnam), but on the interest of those who want to go to war.

only in the cases i described before a war is fought for the average joe.
any other war is fought under the direction of some economic groups supporting the ones making the decisions.

think about this, who benefits more in a war? an average joe? or the guys getting all the bids for weapons? or the ones who will explote the resources that are in 99% of wars, which is the real reason of the wars.
who makes the ultimate decision of going to war? the average joe? or the guys who get the bigger benefit?

the benefit to the average joe, is just a collateral (does this word sound familiar?).

dont go to far and just think of most wars fought recently. what was there to win for the invader? and what was there to loose for the invader? in the present, according to UN resolutions, its illegal to conquer territory by war, but its not ilegal to economically explote resources conquered by war. this is a "legitimization" of the war process, by making it appear less brutal.

think of pakistan and india, they fight the land because of the resources it has, and the land itself that is a resource.
what about the US-mexican war? again, for land and its resources, there was no freedom to fight for there.

wwii? germany taking over europe, maybe the rest of the allies were fighting for their freedom, but the primary objective of the invaders were the resources, land and people (who are the ultimate economic resource)

there are very few wars in the world fought were ultimate and true objective is the protection of the average joe. (but i dont recall any right now)

the real reason of most wars is economic. there is no such thing as a defensive war when u strike first. whoever strikes first is the invasor, any other definition is BS and contrary to the definition of aggressor. thats the one the one whose objective decided the war. the other, the defendant, who usually is the original owner of the resources. so the real reason there, is not the freedom of the defendant, but the objective of the aggressor.


it may sound really ugly, in fact, war is discusting under economic reasons, but think of all the honorable us soldiers killed in the last war. and think of the real benefit for the guys who 2 weeks after when there were still bullets being fired; won the licitations for the oil.

for example, now tell me thats not totally disrespectul with those dead soldiers. and meassure the benefit to the average american, paying 10 cents less at the pump, and then think of the benefits of those who proposed, supported and pushed for the war to go. and then tell people the average joe the war was for their ultimate benefit.
thats the real benefit, and the 10 cents saving is the colateral benefit.

the other thing, about the WMD, the inminent attack from iraq, and all that crap are just subjective conclusions based on forged papers that haven been validated yet, so their value is still in discussion and very unlikely to be validated. and since the actual risk hasnt been defined, then its impossible to argue whether those lives were worth a, so far, forged risk.

dont think am a communist, anarchist or some crap like that,
actually am the perfect example of the product of globalized corporations and conservative economic models, i was raised in south america went to brittish schools, go to college in the us, vacation in mexico, use products made in china and write this from a computer made in japan, in a lab built with german technology.
i eat, live and go to school because of the benefits from them. but that doenst put a blind in my eyes.


Alexis

BTW: when JLB said he wasnt stupid enough to join the army, he meant that some degree of stupidity is required to perform tasks without questioning, regardless reason, and against self-conservation instinct. which is a "virtue" soldiers must have to be good.

gonna have a hard time writting real literarute if you cant interpretate that.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by ALEXIS_DH


gonna have a hard time writting real literarute if you cant interpretate that.

Well that entire post was quite a bore. This really wasnt meant to open up a debate on why wars are fought, but rather on the views of those fighting them. Not to say that its completely irrelevant, but it did nothing to discount what i said in my last post.

:yawn.
Dont feel the need to break simple sh** like this down for me chief, JLB (whom i will admit to having never read, but am taking from his entirely out of context quote) obviously does not posess the virtue of dedication. What you call "stupidity" others call valor. I can already see the viewpoint (however illogical) from which you are standing, so i dont feel it will do any good to try and convince you of the opposite, however, Id ask that instead of simply bashing the idea of warfighters who are actually patriots, you take a minute or two to speak with one...perhaps at a local nursing home or VFW. You may find some not-so-stupid individuals with some very intersesting things to say. You probably wont do it, because once most people are tuned into a certain way of thinking, theres almost never any turning back. Even if you did, youd probably write the guy off as senile or something anyway. Bah!