[TheTruth]

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Morpheus-Cycles-DJ-Prototype-First-Look-2011.html

What do you guys think of this bike? To me I feel that the giant hanger along with all of the random welds make this bike not as strong as i could be. But, I am no expert I am just some guy blabbering nonsense on the internet. For all I know the welds could make the bike stronger. Thus I am looking for others opinions.

Go!

 

[cdavis]

that bike is hideous, however I rode one of their slopstyle/ dual slalom fullys at our local bmx track and was impressed. I cant imagine that the bike is weak. It looks like a lot of trial frames out there.

 

[TortugaTonta]

If you want a bike that rides like 24s just get a bike with 24s.

But whatever. like the old saying goes, there is an ass for every seat

 

[cmc]

i think Superco's seat tube design looks sweeter. 15" cs would definitely be short enough for me . . . . but it's still cool that people are out there trying new designs.....

 

[sittingduck]

Mitch seems to be getting on with it quite well, as he proved by taking the win at Goldman's Upside Down and Underground contest recently, but I suspect that some less open minded riders will be more set on how the prototype frame looks instead of any advantages it can offer.

hehe. first comment: "DAMN!!! That thing is the ugliest bike I've seen in a long time"

 

[Dirtjumper999]

First thoughts....

But as far as design goes. That is the tightest chainstay I have seen any aluminum frame. I am over the low BB height on hardtails. That dropout is atrocious, its like they didn't even try, yet somewhat reminiscent of the prettier 24 Bikes.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

cmon ppl...is it my favorite design aesthetically? Probably not, but they are doing something new here and for the intended purpose its rad...Read the article, the guy knows what he is doing...

 

[Dirtjumper999]

cmon ppl...is it my favorite design aesthetically? Probably not, but they are doing something new here and for the intended purpose its rad...Read the article, the guy knows what he is doing...

The only thing that is dramatically different from any other aluminum dj frame (geo wise) is the super low seatube. Which don't get me wrong, I am all for super low clearance, but above that, the angles are similar to just about any 4x/dj hardtail.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

The only thing that is dramatically different from any other aluminum dj frame (geo wise) is the super low seatube. Which don't get me wrong, I am all for super low clearance, but above that, the angles are similar to just about any 4x/dj hardtail.

ok...? So it is a pretty drastic change to something that hasnt been changed in a while...

 

[Dirtjumper999]

ok...? So it is a pretty drastic change to something that hasnt been changed in a while...

But its a very small thing that only a small fraction of riders (including me) are concerned with. I just think our definitions of a "new direction" are a bit different. To me, a vastly different geometry from all or most aspects would be a new direction. But then again, I have fairly particular tastes in my bikes.

 

[eaterofdog]

Hydroformed and purposely flexy stays. Bleh.

 

[ServeEm]

Those dropouts look like they could shear off with a few nasty landings. The LeToy looked a lot more stout, just my opinion.

 

[nwd_26]

Just on the assumption that they did their homework, it isn't as weak as it looks, and Chubey won't die three flipwhips from now...

It's ugly as three aborted crack fetuses. God damn it. Wow.

I'm trying not to say anything about the geo because they're revising it. I really like the idea of a full 1.5" HT, it would be great to plop an angleset in there and get a slightly steeper head angle. Low BBs do ride beautifully on dirt, and I'd be curious about how it feels with stays that short (probably wicked). A friend of mine has a 26" frame with 13.9" stays, but the BB is jacked into the roof and the head angle is crazy steep, this would theoretically offer the same TT and CS (roughly) with waaaay more relaxed other numbers.

But damn yo, I'm not talking about "beat with the ugly stick", I'm talking about "Aborted with the ugly coat hanger".

 

[mattt]

If its intended purpose is as a 26" dirt jump frame, why would having less than 15.5" be beneficial at all? It is my opinion that sub 15.5" stays are inferior on dirt. Do short people need super short stays...?

It has a slacker 68 HA, and it is made of AL obviously... it would make a poor choice for a street/park frame. (Aluminum having a fatigue life of ~2 years... much less with that cantilevered 6" long dropout.) I know that they claim it gives the option to slam a wheel at 14.5". Why?

I have built a 15" CS 26" frame, and have have found no benefits in manualing/spinning vs a 15.5" CS frame. I found that it hindered my manualing "sweet spot" (though I am 6'2"). Perhaps a shorter person would have less leverage over slightly longer stays... yet 14.5" seems way too short for a 26" dirt specific frame.

 

[Dirtjumper999]

If its intended purpose is as a 26" dirt jump frame, why would having less than 15.5" be beneficial at all? It is my opinion that sub 15.5" stays are inferior on dirt. Do short people need super short stays...?

It has a slacker 68 HA, and it is made of AL obviously... it would make a poor choice for a street/park frame. (Aluminum having a fatigue life of ~2 years... much less with that cantilevered 6" long dropout.) I know that they claim it gives the option to slam a wheel at 14.5". Why?

I have built a 15" CS 26" frame, and have have found no benefits in manualing/spinning vs a 15.5" CS frame. I found that it hindered my manualing "sweet spot" (though I am 6'2"). Perhaps a shorter person would have less leverage over slightly longer stays... yet 14.5" seems way too short for a 26" dirt specific frame.

Put your Axle as far out as it can go on your drops, ride for a month, then slam your axle. You will notice a massive difference.

 

[demo 9]

And truth called my superco short! Blasphemy!

 

[TheTruth]

Yeah, for street I like shorter frames, but for dirt n sh!t.. I like my black market because it is longer and more stable

 

[kidwoo]

Those dropouts look like they could shear off with a few nasty landings. The LeToy looked a lot more stout, just my opinion.

It actually looks a lot like some of the rear ends risse made as aftermarket swingarms for some suspension bikes about 10 years ago. It's pretty much the exact same system. I rode one of those rear ends to stiffen up an old 4" travel specialized frame I had. I never had any problems with it but the way that beam was supported was much more substantial.

But the way this thing looks, I completely agree with you. Seatstays do a lot of good........this thing has none where it looks like they're needed the most.


I'd love to try a 14.5 chainstay........mostly because I've never ridden a bike that I felt had chainstays that were 'too short'. Maybe this is......I think I'd probably like it though.

 

[pnj]

IMO, Deity makes the only 26 frame anyone needs.....

 

[Dirtjumper999]

IMO, Deity makes the only 26 frame anyone needs.....

The streetsweeper doesn't look terrible. But the cryptkeeper's -25mm BB is enough to make me barf.


Shameless Plug:

Look forward to the new Simian Air prototypes towards the end of the summer.
HA-70 CS-14.5" ST-9" TT-22.5" BBR- +7mm

 

[kidwoo]

The streetsweeper doesn't look terrible. But the cryptkeeper's -25mm BB is enough to make me barf.

Then so would the size of the jumps and the associated speed that frame is made for

 

[pnj]

is -25mm low?

How does it compare to the rest of the DJ specific frames out there?

 

[Dirtjumper999]

Then so would the size of the jumps and the associated speed that frame is made for

The geo suited for riding that pros do, is vastly different from the geo suited for the riding that most people do. I am not riding anything tiny, and I still feel way better on a higher BB. And after some recent testing, the best time for 3 laps around my pump track was nearly 2 seconds faster on a bike with a bike that had a BB above the axle line, than a bike with a BB below the axle line.

I might be a freak of nature though.

is -25mm low?

How does it compare to the rest of the DJ specific frames out there?

Pretty low. Most Dj frames are -10mm or so.

 

[kidwoo]

I might be a freak of nature though.

No that's a fvcking pump track.

Interesting note though, I had a buddy with an atomlab frame with a higher bb and shorter rear end than my bike (an older spec p1). We were riding a pumptrack outside of whistler one evening and he couldn't get the speed to double up this little section. He could on my bike.

-25 isn't low. It's appropriate for hitting big jumps with stability. Dh bike makers finally figured this out, I'm not sure why there are so many djers out there who haven't. Some have however. Sure it's great for popping around at low speeds on little tight stuff but you can't deny being more between the wheels is way more stable in the air.

The bb on my bike is 11 inches. It's the only reason I've been riding it for so long.

The geo suited for riding that pros do, is vastly different from the geo suited for the riding that most people do.

Not really.

Besides, 15mm is enough to change with tires. And hell kudos to diety for being one of the few companies out there not making the exact same bike that 90% of hardtail builders are making now. It's like every single brand is making the same freaking frame these days.

Same for these guys at morpheus too. I'd definitely like to try one. Stoked they're experimenting a bit.

 

[Dirtjumper999]

It's like every single brand is making the same freaking frame these days.

Could not agree more.


BB height seems to be black and white thing for most riders. I have had people ride my bike with +7mm of rise, and love it. And others hate it.

I always felt as though low BB was really cumbersome and awkward feeling, but when I finally got onto something with higher rise I felt more confident and my progression went through the roof. Suddenly a 26" bike became as flicky as a 20".

 

[mattt]

I would be in the negative drop crowd myself. This frame has about a +3mm bb rise and 15" stays:

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/6548419/

It rides similar to most older BMX frames that had 12.25" BB heights. Very high and over the front feeling. To me, it has a negligible manualing/spinning difference from a 15.5".

My current frame has a -5mm drop, and even that feels a bit too high for dirt. -15mm would be the perfect drop for my proportions... if I strictly rode dirt.

Put your Axle as far out as it can go on your drops, ride for a month, then slam your axle. You will notice a massive difference.

Until recently, I have ridden with my axle at 15.8". I slammed the axle at 15.5" and found that the bike handled worse on dirt, but better at the skatepark. Manuals and spins were improved, but the axle feels noticeably too close on big dirt stuff. The difference is not massive and I think this might be because I am tall and you are... freakishly short?

The general consensus among BMX manufacturers/builders/riders is that with shorter stays, a lower BB height can be achieved. Short stays give better spinning characteristics, and a lower "in between the wheels" or "over the back" feeling comes with a lower BB height. BMX frames built with taller riders in mind, and trails specific frames, have retained longer chainstays and slightly higher BBs. This is likely because taller riders have more leverage on longer stays (and require less effort to manual) Longer stays have more stability on dirt, but require a slightly higher BB height ~11.9" to maintain a consistent manual point.

trails:

http://www.fitbikeco.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=85

street:

http://www.sandmbikes.com/_product_63772/Frame_-_BTM_Hoder_Signature

In the end, it is subjective. So any attempt at defining what is "good" or "bad" is pointless. Here is my shameless plug: I will make any frame you want, even if its not the geometry that I like.

 

[mattt]

I will not boldly rip off Sunday BMX's logo however:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Octane-One-2011.html

 

[Cru Jones]

Looks a bit similar to the 10-74 frame we helped design with RickTheWelder over on mtbr awhile back. Even uses the same concepts of a lower top tube, long dropouts, and a curved seattube...

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=278519

 

[Dirtjumper999]

I will not boldly rip off Sunday BMX's logo however:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Octane-One-2011.html

Sunday was not the first to use the speech bubble for a logo, and they will not be the last.

 

[mattt]

Same exact font. Similar use of speech bubble. Bright pastel color schemes.

There are infinite font and color scheme combinations... there are thousands of graphic designers out there.

They chose a brand identity that already exists.

 

[Dirtjumper999]

Same exact font. Similar use of speech bubble. Bright pastel color schemes.

There are infinite font and color scheme combinations... there are thousands of graphic designers out there.

They chose a brand identity that already exists.

I reiterate.

 

[mattt]

those are bicycle manufacturers?

 

[Dirtjumper999]

No, but marketing is marketing. They weren't the first, and they won't be the last.

 

[mattt]

Back to the super short chainstay aluminum frame.

Here is another dirt specific BMX frame that defies the logic: "shorter stays are better for everything"

"...the new Sunday Conductor frame. It’s look is simple and classic with geometry specifically suited for stability at higher speeds. The stability comes from the longer top tube lengths combined with it’s 14″-14.75″ chainstay length. It has a normal, not so twitchy headtube angle that remains responsive."

http://www.sundaybikes.com/catalog/frames/bmx/conductor/

 

[kidwoo]

Here is another dirt specific BMX frame that defies the logic: "shorter stays are better for everything"

I don't know about everyone else but I was talking 26, not bmx.

Because I HAVE ridden 20s that I thought had too short of a chainstay

 

[pnj]

S&M BTM frame has a shorter rear end then that Sunday. But this is a 26 inch thread.....

 

[mattt]

holy crap. I am trying to illustrate that the BMX industry generally understands the concept that longer stays, slacker HAs and lower BBs mean stability. But many MTB riders look at the recent design changes in BMX street frames (shortening/steepening) as the way of the future for everything in freestyle MTB. Shorter is not better for everything.

The ability to shorten stays to 14.5" on the Morpheus (dirt specific frame) is pointless. Anything much shorter than a 15.5" stay on 26" DIRT JUMPING frame will effectively hinder dirt jumping. The same way a 13" stay on a BMX frame would.

Steepening the HA on the Deity frames (to 69.5) is counter-productive. Their marketing guy said something like "it helps push through big, steep sets..." I call BS on that one: If anything it just makes the handling squirrely at speed and reduces foot/pedal-front wheel clearance. Can that frame clear a pedal for a tailwhip?

At least the Morpheus guys did something correct with the 68 HA.

 

[mattt]

S&M BTM frame has a shorter rear end then that Sunday. But this is a 26 inch thread.....

those are factual statements. yes

 

[TheTruth]

If anything it just makes the handling squirrely at speed and reduces foot/pedal-front wheel clearance. Can that frame clear a pedal for a tailwhip?

At least the Morpheus guys did something correct with the 68 HA.[/QUOTE]

You say "if anything" there. I just want to make sure that you have actually ridden a set of 25-35 footers with 6-8 foot lips.

 

[slimshady]

Shorter is not better for everything.

Hmmm... Shorter chainstays makes for easy turns. If you ride a mixture of Park/DJ, the Morpheus would be your a do-it-all rig. You could lengthen the CS to handle the big stuff and shorten them for Park riding...

Steepening the HA on the Deity frames (to 69.5) is counter-productive. Their marketing guy said something like "it helps push through big, steep sets..." I call BS on that one: If anything it just makes the handling squirrely at speed and reduces foot/pedal-front wheel clearance. Can that frame clear a pedal for a tailwhip?

At least the Morpheus guys did something correct with the 68 HA.

Again, I see your point in the whole "let's try to import to MTBMX the Vert BMX Geo" trend. However, the average technical rider (more used to ride Park and mix some Flatland-style tricks in) feels better with a steeper HA and a higher BB. I still think that geometry tends to put much more stress in the frame and fork when hitting big air lines.