[Dirtjumper999]

The ability to shorten stays to 14.5" on the Morpheus (dirt specific frame) is pointless. Anything much shorter than a 15.5" stay on 26" DIRT JUMPING frame will effectively hinder dirt jumping.

Perhaps true for you, but many euro mtb pros are having their bikes made with shortest chainstays and higher BB's.

So the thing to take away from this is that everyone has a personal preference.

For instance, a 63 degree headangle for a downhill bike would ONLY be useful to someone who could effectively use that geometry. A person who is new to downhill would not do so well on that type of bike, and could not use it to its full potential.

The same can be said for DJ bikes, if a person can throw triple tailwhips from 10ft above a 6ft lip, I am sure they can do it the same on a bike with 16"stays than on 14.5" stays.

Above whether it rides well, shorter stays are stiffer stays. And I have never met another rider who didn't want a stiffer bike.

 

[cmc]

I will not boldly rip off Sunday BMX's logo however:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Octane-One-2011.html

Same exact font. Similar use of speech bubble. Bright pastel color schemes.

There are infinite font and color scheme combinations... there are thousands of graphic designers out there.

They chose a brand identity that already exists.

Yeah, . . . the use of "One" and the font is also similar to an old TerribleOne logo.

I found a box of my old sticker collection at my parents house:

I'm not a graphic designer . . . but the Sunday logo font seems to be pretty close to Helvetica / Arial--which is the most common font on earth. So, to be fair, you can't really say someone rips off using Helvetica. But the colors and speech bubble--definitely see that...

If yall are interested in graphic design, logos, etc., gotta check out this documentary. It's on Netflix instant.

http://www.helveticafilm.com/

 

[Dirtjumper999]

Did anyone else read that in the over dramatic expo announcers voice? SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY!! SEE THE GRAAAAAVVVEEEE DIGGER! KIDS GET IN FREE! SUNDAAAAYYY!!!

 

[mattt]

Not exactly: If you omit the stay braces, or replace them with small thin plate or a closed tube attached to the BB (vs a tubing style brace) you are effectively doing the opposite.

Think of a triple clamp (vs a single crown) rigid fork as an example of the same issue. The twisting forces are exerted over both sets of clamps, the same way the twisting forces on stays are exerted over the brace and then the BB.

 

[cmc]

If its intended purpose is as a 26" dirt jump frame, why would having less than 15.5" be beneficial at all? It is my opinion that sub 15.5" stays are inferior on dirt. Do short people need super short stays...?

It has a slacker 68 HA, and it is made of AL obviously... it would make a poor choice for a street/park frame. (Aluminum having a fatigue life of ~2 years... much less with that cantilevered 6" long dropout.) I know that they claim it gives the option to slam a wheel at 14.5". Why?

I have built a 15" CS 26" frame, and have have found no benefits in manualing/spinning vs a 15.5" CS frame. I found that it hindered my manualing "sweet spot" (though I am 6'2"). Perhaps a shorter person would have less leverage over slightly longer stays... yet 14.5" seems way too short for a 26" dirt specific frame.

i agree . . . a bike that pulls up real quick/easy is not necessarily better for "locking in" to a manual. i first learned to manual really well in the early 90's on a XXL Powerlite race bike (with a super long back end). at 6'1" i feel like i "lock in" to manuals the best on my 22.5" blackmarket mob (15.7" cs). especially manualing rollers for speed, like bmx track style--you need the length in the back end for the leverage to get rear wheel pump out of the roller. on the other hand, for 26" wheel tech street style riding . . . like manuals-to-180-bunnyhop or bunnyhop tailwhips an ultra short back end may help.

as for shorter riders, it seems like they do like an ultra-short back end. several of my friends ride eastern thunderbirds and nighttrains and they really dig em. they can get behind the back wheel easier, when needed. i think it also has something to do with the ratio of the front end length to the rear end length. since the Eastern is 21.5" tt, it actually feels good for it to have a 14.9 cs. one of my friends--medium height, maybe 5'7 or 5'8", went from a 22.5"tt MOB to a 24" wheel Union Street Molly (14.7"cs) and said he learned to manual within a week after trying for years and never dialing it in.

what really sucks is a mullet bike. super short in the front, super long in the back. lots of 80s bmx bikes looked like this.

the opposite (the new wave bike??), long front + super short in the back is kinda what's going on in 20" BMX right now, as well as with bikes like the Atomlab Trailking and the 23"tt Transition Trail or Park. Cult Bad Boy frame--you can get it 21.25"tt and 13.55"cs !

Cult Bad Boy 21"tt 13.55"cs:

http://www.empirebmx.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9518

Atomlab Trail King

 

[Dirtjumper999]

I agree with finding the ratio between back and front. But I think that the shorter the rear end is, the longer the front has to be, in order to keep your wait centered over the bike. The TrailKing has most of my ideal geometry dialed. Just for me, there is no reason to have the seatube all the way up there.

 

[TheTruth]

There is really something to be said about bike setup here as well. As CMC said some people can't manual on 26 while others have no problem.

But, that being said, different bikes suit different people better and there is no question about it. However, I feel that the shorter bikes are, the more uncomfortable they make me. That morpheus gives me claustrophobia.

 

[kidwoo]

holy crap. I am trying to illustrate that the BMX industry generally understands the concept that longer stays, slacker HAs and lower BBs mean stability.

So does the mtb industry. You've ridden dh or at least know a little about the bikes I assume......and you've probably seen the trends in trailbikes recently.


Most dirtjump trail speeds are nothing like dh speeds so there's going to be some differences. And since a 26" wheel hinders chainstay length capacity when I say 'short', I really only mean 'short for a 26" wheel'. I don't think mtbs have reached the min range where people start to notice anything detrimental too much.....especially when not even talking about wheelbases.

 

[Flat tyres]

Meh, that thing is like when your in your 9th hour of surfing free porn and you accidentally peep a tranny. At first everything looks ok, but then you realized you've been dupped. Same thing here, dont even look at it, people might get wrong impression as to your preference.

And a der. hanger? Sorry, but that abortion with a cassete and derailleur, worse than a square sh1t.

 

[TheTruth]

Meh, that thing is like when your in your 9th hour of surfing free porn and you accidentally peep a tranny. At first everything looks ok, but then you realized you've been dupped. Same thing here, dont even look at it, people might get wrong impression as to your preference.

And a der. hanger? Sorry, but that abortion with a cassete and derailleur, worse than a square sh1t.

Or a sideways rectangle ****.

 

[Flat tyres]

Or a sideways rectangle ****.

Yes, I see your familiar with a percocete induced poop. Its time to stop with pain killers when you keep magnesium citrate and a spoon under the sink.

 

[kidwoo]

Its time to stop with pain killers when you keep magnesium citrate and a spoon under the sink.

Hey wait! What's wrong with that?

 

[cmc]

Yes, I see your familiar with a percocete induced poop. Its time to stop with pain killers when you keep magnesium citrate and a spoon under the sink.

the standards in this forum are gettin kinda 'lax.'

 

[kidwoo]

the standards in this forum are gettin kinda 'lax.'

Call it a 'movement' if you must.

 

[TheTruth]

Call it a 'movement' if you must.

Hey! Cut the 'sh!t'!