Lower the 01 Monster T
- Thread starter kohoy
- Start date
those forks are allready some of the lowest there are. why would you want shorter?
Your out of luck.
The monster has 175mm of travel and approx 178mm of exposed stanchion with the top of the lower crown level with the machined grooves in the legs. Basically it can only go in one spot nad thats it.
You can lower the travel if you like, requires a PVC spacer and you would need to cut the springs as well.
The monster has 175mm of travel and approx 178mm of exposed stanchion with the top of the lower crown level with the machined grooves in the legs. Basically it can only go in one spot nad thats it.
You can lower the travel if you like, requires a PVC spacer and you would need to cut the springs as well.
Nah, its hell easy mate.kohoy said:
Buy some new springs, 1 rate softer then you would normally get as cutting the spring will stiffen it.
Get some PVC pipe, small diameter, maybe even some solid rod with a hole drilled in it.
For every inch you want to drop the travel, lop one inch off the spring and make a 1 inch spacer, 2inchs from the spring make a 2 inch spacer and so forth.
The spacer goes inbetween the flaired section of the upper cartridge and the top out spring as shown.
No need for changing seals, you will need to drain and change the oil though.
Easy as pie, it really is.
It needs to have an inner diameter slightly larger then the outside of the cartridge, and an outside diameter larger then the diameter of the top out spring.kohoy said:
I have a fork in bits at home, if i can be bothered (im lazy sometimes) i will measure it up for you.
Cartridge is 17.6mm diameter
Top out spring is 24mm diameter
So a spacer of inside 18mm and outside 26mm would do fine.
It also occured to me that you could trim down the PVC spring spacer instead of the spring. It is 35mm diam outer, 31mm inner
I snapped a pic as well. Put the spacer inbetween the top out spring and flanged end of the cartridge.
It should all make sense now.
Top out spring is 24mm diameter
So a spacer of inside 18mm and outside 26mm would do fine.
It also occured to me that you could trim down the PVC spring spacer instead of the spring. It is 35mm diam outer, 31mm inner
I snapped a pic as well. Put the spacer inbetween the top out spring and flanged end of the cartridge.
It should all make sense now.
It make a lot more sence to me now... the thing now is to get a pair custom made PVC spacer and new springs....hehe
but one more thing, you said about triming down the PVC spring spacer instead of the spring... what does that exactly mean? Sorry for my poor English...
but one more thing, you said about triming down the PVC spring spacer instead of the spring... what does that exactly mean? Sorry for my poor English...
Cave Dweller said:Nah, its hell easy mate.
Buy some new springs, 1 rate softer then you would normally get as cutting the spring will stiffen it.
Get some PVC pipe, small diameter, maybe even some solid rod with a hole drilled in it.
For every inch you want to drop the travel, lop one inch off the spring and make a 1 inch spacer, 2inchs from the spring make a 2 inch spacer and so forth.
The spacer goes inbetween the flaired section of the upper cartridge and the top out spring as shown.
No need for changing seals, you will need to drain and change the oil though.
Easy as pie, it really is.
No need to cut springs either. Item #1 in that there little diagram that you just posted is a pvc spacer that fits on TOP of the spring. Cut an inch off of it and and use that piece as a spacer between the flared section of the upper cartridge and the top out spring.
Edit: oops. missed your post #10
The way that Marz told me to do it on my 02, which I did and was very happy with, is to buy a second set of top-out springs and run them in tandem with the stock ones. This lowered the front by about an inch, which seems to be what you are going for. This means that the 30mm top out springs working against the regular springs should net about 20-25mm lower and add quite a bit of preload, which you will want given the combination of reduced travel and totally linear damping.
I liked the fork a LOT more this way than stock, as my Bullit steered much better with steeper geometry. I also ran heavy springs and the 10w oil level at the highest level recomended in the service manual, to slow the fork down enough to suit my taste.
I liked the fork a LOT more this way than stock, as my Bullit steered much better with steeper geometry. I also ran heavy springs and the 10w oil level at the highest level recomended in the service manual, to slow the fork down enough to suit my taste.
that looks like what I'm looking for... and sound easier as well... but should I get a new top out spring (item 12 right?) from marz or should I pull it out and ask some spring shop to make one for me? also, if I don't cut my spring like you said... is it going to be too stiff? I weight 190lb btw.bmxr said:
Just buy a kit from Marz; they are cheap. And IMO, no, it will not be too stiff.
I've just ordered a pair of top up spring from dealer of marz now....hehe so you use 10wt oil and how did you setup your rebound and preload? I don't do much big drops... 1.5m high max.... but I do like playing around in some big long stair route in mountain..... any suggestions?
I just messed with the adjusters to see what I liked. I think I started with comp in the the middle and left it. Rebound is touchy. Where it "angages", if you turn the adjuster in about one turn it seemed to go from very soft to very stiff, so you will have to make fine adjustments somewhere in there. Good luck!
Let us know how it works out. I have a feeling it won't work so well.kohoy said:
Putting two springs exactly the same in series equates to a spring half as stiff as the original (ie softer). So the top out spring will not be as stiff as it should be and the main spring will overcome it and top out with a "clunk".
And the whole point of putting the extra spring in was to compress the main spring down resulting in less travel, which is kind of dodgy to begin with.
What will probably happen is the top out springs will just compress until they bind up. The main spring will always have a high rate of pre-load on it , you may get 5-10mm or so of travel reduction but the forks will top out bad.
The way i describded it is how travel reduction is acheived with other forks, such as the 66, z1 etc etc
I think i am going to try and find an older monster just to have around i love that fork...
yeah.... it's a lovely fork as long as it's still working well... the one I have I got it from a used complete 2002 GT DHi... that guy brought it new and have been riding off road for only a few times.... he mainly ride it in town to show people off his "new" bike... so the fork is actually performing like a new fork.... very smooth and stiff~ I LOVE the MONSTER~~ hehe
I am not going to debate anything scientific-like about metalurgy, coil bind, or anything else, but I CAN tell you how it actually worked out (no hypotheses being postulated hereCave Dweller said:
); it reduced the travel to 155mm, did not bottom out harshly, nor did it top out harshly. I weigh about 215lbs and ride "vigorously"... FWIW, aLso note that it was what Marz told me to do.The only reason I got rid of mine is because I have been on a heavy bike for a few years and now wish to ride trails more to rehab my knees, on a lighter bike. The 02 Monster is awesome, and if you don't like the valving, you can still have Marz that dialed to your taste as well.
Enjoy, kohoy!
Thanks everyone for your idea and suggestions, I'll try and see if I like it and let you all know... bmxr, if you see salami... say thanks for me as his monster menu helped me a lot on understanding it.... I've been riding downhill for 2 months now with my hardtail and now switched to a heavy monster.... (48lb.)... it's heavy, but I like the way it rolls and drop... very solid... I'm already enjoying it man~
Add the top out spring to the bottom of the fork, trim the long PVC spacer by the length of the top out spring... Lowers the fork, doesn't preload the main springs. I have seen this done before, but not for a few years on a Monster.. But my tech guys lower a lot of forks by stacking top out springs.. Mine included... No problem..
Brian
Brian
Exactly, you do get some travel reduction but it would be from the 2 top out springs binding up. With both springs totally wound up they probably measure 15mm or so, which is the 15/20mm in travel reduction you talk about (ok, ok , more then the 5-10mm i said)bmxr said:I am not going to debate anything scientific-like about metalurgy, coil bind, or anything else, but I CAN tell you how it actually worked out (no hypotheses being postulated here
It would top out more harshley. You said you were running 10wt oil which would slow down down the rebound so you wouldn't feel it so bad. But back to back with the same oil weight it would top out more.
You also mention that your rebound was very touchy, well thats why, trying to match up the rebound to excess pre-load on the springs / top out would result in a very small range of adjustment. 10wt oil combined with excess load from the springs may damage the carts, the shims are not very big. I have killed one cart running 12.5wt oil in, blew out the rebound (bent the shims i think)
And bottom out resistance is more a function of the amount of air chamber, you said you were running max oil level so bottom would not be a problem.
I didn't say it won't work, im saying it won't work as well as it should if the "proper" travel reduction method was taken, but i suppose there is more then one way to skin a cat.
****edit***** If you trim the preload spacer like brian says that would sort out the top out/excess pre-load problem i mention.
But that is basically exactly what i said to do before hand way back at the start of this thread, except you are using another top out spring instead of a little spacer, either would do the job. Trick is to cut the pvc spacer.
Either the pvc spacer or the top out spring would be fine(top out spring would be easier, seeing you know it will fit and you have already ordered for it)kohoy said:
You should cut the large spacers by the same amount as the top out spring to avoid any top out/excess pre-load problems as said by Brian (who works for marzocchi USA) and myself (an alein from outerspace). You don't 'have' to cut the spacers, it will still work but not as well as it could.
Don't use super heavy oil in the carts as you 'may' bend the shims, i wouldn't go over 10wt.
Got it??
No... You will want to trim the spacer on top of the main (top) spring. This allows the fork to drop and the extra top out spring you are adding to the bottom of the fork pulls the fork down and takes up the slack.
Basically, if you take away an amount from the top half of the fork, you have to add it to the bottom have of the fork. If you don't, the fork will have a bunch of free play and the wheel will drop 20mm everytime your front wheel leaves the ground. Not good...
Also, don't go above 10wt oil in you fork. I have seen cartridges split from too heavy of an oil being used..
Brian
Basically, if you take away an amount from the top half of the fork, you have to add it to the bottom have of the fork. If you don't, the fork will have a bunch of free play and the wheel will drop 20mm everytime your front wheel leaves the ground. Not good...
Also, don't go above 10wt oil in you fork. I have seen cartridges split from too heavy of an oil being used..
Brian