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Manning's treatment is outrageous

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,391
16,887
Riding the baggage carousel.
he committed treason during a time of war; an offense punishable by death.
Have we actually declared war on anyone? Or are we speaking of the ambiguous "war on terror". Because one is bullsh*t and the other is not. I, for one, believe Manning is guilty, but we do still have due process in this country, even for members of the military do we not?
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
It stopped being secret once a private stole it and sent it to wikileaks.
Fail goes to US gov't.

Journalists are 'leaked' info daily from sources within the gov't.
The ability to publish that info is paramount for a free press.
If a gov't wants to keep something secret the onus is on them, not reporters.

e:
A lot of times, those car photos aren't taken in public.
They get leaked by suppliers, employees or reporters given the info under specific restrictions.
If it wasn't intended for public eyes, should autoblog be indicted?
 
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dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Have we actually declared war on anyone? Or are we speaking of the ambiguous "war on terror". Because one is bullsh*t and the other is not. I, for one, believe Manning is guilty, but we do still have due process in this country, even for members of the military do we not?
Going by the ambiguous "war" concept, we've been "at war" with at least one other country ever since 1950. It's a lot easier to take freedoms away when you can claim you're "at war"...
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
its a lot different. if those car are in public, its fair game.

publishing stolen secret government information kinda sounds illegal to me...i could be wrong though. :rolleyes:

that guy who started napster didnt actually steal the music. he just provided a program that could let other people steal it. is that illegal?
The songs which Napster shared were protected by artist copyright. And if you haven't heard of torrent, even then music is very hard to protect.

The information shared by wikileaks is secret and there are penalties. But the information itself is probably not illegal to read, just to bypass whatever security measures are in place to read it.

It does sounds ridiculous that information is free but accessing it is a crime.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Nothing else they describe is inappropriate, unusual, or unfair for pre-trial detention of a serious felon under solitary confinement, and the US government takes protection of classified information very, very seriously.
Well they say they do but when the foreign minister of one of your closest allies publically, and without precedent in recent times, criticises the lax way that crucial information is protected as Kevin Rudd did recently then a country supposedly dedicated to best practice in this area would do well to listen.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
However, we all have ethical, moral, and legal choices we have to make.

In the case of Manning, he might have objected to the Afghanistan War like I do. However, he also put on the uniform of our country's military, and he made a decision to break the law and betray his fellow soldiers.

As a data clerk, was he given an illegal and/or immoral order that he needed to steal classified information in a pre-mediated fashion?
Must spread rep +1:thumb:
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
For all the teeth gnashing over his "loss of rights" I ask what right has he lost?

Will he get due process? Yes, in accordance with the UCMJ which we have already discussed.

Is he being mis-treated? Not in terms of standard pre-trail confinement and under the conditions set forth by the commander of the holding facility. So he can't sleep between 0500 and 2000? Wahhh. Neither can the poor E-3 standing deck watch in the Arabian Gulf or the E-5 walking a patrol in Kandahar.

He will get full access to a lawyer (thus Silver's link) and will get benefit of counsel at trail. He is still being paid his military salary and benefits so therefore, he is still subject to doing what the fvck he's told to do.

The time of war is a juke, weave and bob. Doesn't matter. You're not allowed to disclose or give away classified document during war, peace or other times.
During time of war would only open the door for possible execution and I honestly don't think the Government has the balls to do it.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
The Government. :)
Oh, I'm sure there is some of that going on since they can't get to Assange. But they will be very careful with this one.

Old guys like me remember the Walker and Whitworth spy leaking during the 80s. The government tried to beat them up in the media and it came back to haunt them at trail.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
So, just to clarify: It's standard for a person in the military in pre-trial detention to not be able to exercise in his own cell?

Really, it's better if you just admit you're the bad guys and you're ****ing with him because you can, like kidwoo pointed out.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
So, just to clarify: It's standard for a person in the military in pre-trial detention to not be able to exercise in his own cell?

Really, it's better if you just admit you're the bad guys and you're ****ing with him because you can, like kidwoo pointed out.
So you're that worried about his ability to work out? Really? This is the sh!t that inflames you? So you really do reach and stretch just to find things to piss and moan about this country don't you?

For whatever reason, the commander has decided that he is confined to the cell. The guards and staff there would probably be just as happy to not have him there, for all the extra work and PITA it is.

You do understand that Manning has admitted he did this right? Again, this is all pretty standard stuff for confinement for violation of this type and the media attention and circus that this brings with it.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Can you show other pre-trial detainees that were held in that manner? Maybe a convicted torturer like Charles Graner? You keep asserting that this is normal-if it is, that's a bigger outrage, actually.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,698
1,749
chez moi
I don't catalogue military detainee treatment synopses just in case I need to toss them out on the Internet.

I do know brigs with which I've had limited experience consider exercise to be recreation, and that time in the cell is not to be spent in recreation other than what is allotted.

It's not like Manning's taking his exercise opportunity to do any real exercise, either.


Why all this sympathy for a professional killer, anyhow? Isn't he getting what he deserves for teaming up with a bunch of immoral psychopaths-for-profit?
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,621
9,622
Why all this sympathy for a professional killer, anyhow? Isn't he getting what he deserves for teaming up with a bunch of immoral psychopaths-for-profit?
damnit....we've stumbled upon an american silver likes!

Lars Ullrich weeps for you...
i wish there was a way i could fvck over lars....he produces nothing i would want to borrow.
 
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jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,301
13,420
Portland, OR
The guy that was supposed to be the best man at my wedding got 14 days in the brig for being caught drunk on duty. 7 of those days he was restricted to bread and water. Show me somewhere outside the military where you can be legally restricted to bread and water for 7 days.

He didn't kill anyone. He didn't leak documents. He got drunk while on duty and got caught. During his 14 days, he wasn't given an option to exercise, either. This was while we were in dry dock in San Diego and not during "a time of war".

Manning has it pretty damn good, actually.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Why all this sympathy for a professional killer, anyhow? Isn't he getting what he deserves for teaming up with a bunch of immoral psychopaths-for-profit?
That is a good point, actually. He should have stayed in the Uncle Sam-approved matrix of ways to blow off steam.
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
13,452
1,980
Front Range, dude...
btw, to clarify my stance:

Manning: jail for decades
Assange: freedom
+1...except for the fact that, from everything that I have read and seen, Assange is being prosecuted for sexual assault x2 etc. And yes, I do believe that. So before we go treating him like Woodward or Bernstein, lets get past that...
Manning violated the trust of both his fellow soldiers and his country. He knew what he was doing all the way, he had to sign numerous agreemnts to gain his clearance, he was paid and probably got big bonuses to gointo this MOS, was certainly briefed regarding unauthorized discosure of classified and the ramifications of same and how he could be punished if he chose to do so.
Yet for some mysterious reason, he still acted like a spoiled child and leaked this info, endangering who knows how many players, both big and small. As one inside the military, I say screw him.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,301
13,420
Portland, OR
+1...except for the fact that, from everything that I have read and seen, Assange is being prosecuted for sexual assault x2 etc. And yes, I do believe that. So before we go treating him like Woodward or Bernstein, lets get past that...
Manning violated the trust of both his fellow soldiers and his country. He knew what he was doing all the way, he had to sign numerous agreemnts to gain his clearance, he was paid and probably got big bonuses to gointo this MOS, was certainly briefed regarding unauthorized discosure of classified and the ramifications of same and how he could be punished if he chose to do so.
Yet for some mysterious reason, he still acted like a spoiled child and leaked this info, endangering who knows how many players, both big and small. As one inside the military, I say screw him.
Must spread rep...
 

skeletor5

Chimp
Feb 16, 2009
9
0
It stopped being secret once a private stole it and sent it to wikileaks.
Fail goes to US gov't.
This isn't true. The information is still considered classified even though it is in the public domain. This is due to an Executive Order, although I forget the exact number. I know I could potentially get in trouble at work for looking at the documents since I do not hold the proper security clearance to view them because they sent out an email about this subject.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,698
1,749
chez moi
Yes, they're still classified information and the USG treats it accordingly, but to say it's still "secret" is a rhetorical dead-end to anyone who's not holding a clearance. The information is in the public domain.

This is a total opportunity for a new government acronym: PACI (publically available classified information) or the like. Yaaaaaaaay. And an SOP on how to deal with it. And an MOU and an MOA with lateral agencies concerning same. Got a problem? Let the USG throw some letters at it...!
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
not getting any better for this guy
Washington (CNN) -- The U.S. Army Wednesday notified Pfc. Bradley Manning, a prime suspect in the WikiLeaks case, that he now faces 22 more charges in connection with allegedly downloading secret information from computers in Iraq.
The most serious new charge alleges that he aided the enemy by making this information public. That charge is punishable by death. A news release from the Army said the prosecution team "has notified the defense that the prosecution will not recommend the death penalty," but technically it is up to the commander overseeing the case to make the final decision about the death penalty.
All told, Manning, a military intelligence analyst from Oklahoma, now faces a total of 34 charges in the case, including:
-- Wrongfully causing intelligence to be published on the internet
-- Theft of public records
-- Transmitting defense information
-- Transferring classified data onto his personal computer
-- Disclosing classified information concerning the national defense.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/02/wikileaks.suspect/index.html?iref=allsearch
 

Whoops

Turbo Monkey
Jul 9, 2006
1,011
0
New Zealand
Yeah cause the military should be allowed to do anything they want and keep it all secret while blowing 1/3 the governments budget out it's a$$.







Awaits flaming :D
I partly agree.. but there's a world of difference between whistle blowing on one case of corruption/graft, and just dumping a whole lot of randomly collected (i.e. whatever you can get your hands on) information into the hands of an organisation like wikileaks.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
As long as we're still killing gooks or sand naggers or hajis or whatever we're calling poor brown people Jesus doesn't love these days, I'm happy.

Mission accomplished, mother****ers!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/world/asia/03afghan.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
Indeed, we should let these people keep whatever secrets they want. It works best when the military writes their own rules.

:insertfavoritefacepalmhere:


Am I doing it right?