Quantcast

Mmm Laaahhaaar

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Cameron says he only noticed it hitting in one spot in one race in the last year. They're built bulletproof and to form a ramp that'll slide easily over anything that would trip the wheel. I've seen Punter case a landing with his once. When I mentioned it he was surprized, hadn't realised he'd cased it at all. They initially clear 10 inches, and end up as high as the BB.
that makes sense. Im sure they're invincible from what my kiwi friends said. So when are you gonna ramp up production so us wankers can get our hands on one? Where can we find the geo specs, the site doesn't seem to have them (unless im a noob of the interweb :'( )
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
I don't get it, why are you scared of that seatpost?
Cast alluminium and scary thin flexy carbon layed up by god knows who. I'm only running it real low but on my xc Goose it has some flex to her,and with everyone you come accross having to push down on the seat to make the suspension move I don't hold my hopes for it.
Including Mk8s I'd say there's 15 right now with 16 being made.
Yes I'm keeping this one,won't be letting this one go.
Lovin it,just pushes you to go faster. loves the rough being served super fast.
I'm not sure I like the fact that you can't tell if you're cassing jumps though.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
It's 1 of 8or 9 of the Mk9. There's only 5 Mk8s I think and the molds are gone for them so they're very exclusive,even though they're constantly being ridden by lots of different people.
 

Punter

Chimp
May 8, 2006
54
0
It's 1 of 8or 9 of the Mk9. There's only 5 Mk8s I think and the molds are gone for them so they're very exclusive,even though they're constantly being ridden by lots of different people.

There are 6 M8's, five are being ridden, one is a USA collectors that got sold with one of those chameleon paint jobs.

Another fella is riding an M5 with a new swingarm.

And aaron is making the tenth M9 now.

So right now there are 16 being ridden, with orders for a number more on the way. Sweet.
 

LaharDesign

Monkey
Jun 16, 2006
159
0
So when are you gonna ramp up production so us wankers can get our hands on one? Where can we find the geo specs, the site doesn't seem to have them (unless im a noob of the interweb :'( )
When I get over my tendancy to snarl like a pitbull whenever I see someone in a suit. (don't ask)
Looking at doing a bare bones version with no floater and a steel swingarm, option of more all mountain geometry very soon. With basically only the mainframe in carbon I should be able to get those ones out a lot faster.
Geo diagram for the current worldchamps replica attached.
 

Attachments

rosenamedpoop

Turbo Monkey
Feb 27, 2004
1,284
0
just Santa Cruz...
When I get over my tendancy to snarl like a pitbull whenever I see someone in a suit. (don't ask)
Looking at doing a bare bones version with no floater and a steel swingarm, option of more all mountain geometry very soon. With basically only the mainframe in carbon I should be able to get those ones out a lot faster.
Geo diagram for the current worldchamps replica attached.
Geo looks good. Very standard DH race. I don't get all the "don't know about the geo" comments.
 

Whoops

Turbo Monkey
Jul 9, 2006
1,011
0
New Zealand
When I get over my tendancy to snarl like a pitbull whenever I see someone in a suit. (don't ask)
If you're serious about bringing the joy of Lahar to the world, you're gonna have to get over that.

You don't have the skills to do it (that sound's pretty rude, but it's meant nicely).
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Geo looks good. Very standard DH race. I don't get all the "don't know about the geo" comments.
Nah, it's longer/slacker than most bikes, and you have to keep in mind that it gets even longer (chainstays/wheelbase) under sag cos of the axle path. Most high pivot bikes start off with shortish stays (17" or less) to compensate for that, but the Lahar starts long and gets really long. The really long chainstays are about the only thing I didn't like about the bike (well other than the marketing), they make it pretty hard to square off tight corners.
 

rosenamedpoop

Turbo Monkey
Feb 27, 2004
1,284
0
just Santa Cruz...
Nah, it's longer/slacker than most bikes, and you have to keep in mind that it gets even longer (chainstays/wheelbase) under sag cos of the axle path. Most high pivot bikes start off with shortish stays (17" or less) to compensate for that, but the Lahar starts long and gets really long. The really long chainstays are about the only thing I didn't like about the bike (well other than the marketing), they make it pretty hard to square off tight corners.
Well it's true that it is longer and slacker than a lot of off the shelf frames, but not all. Also a lot of racers use custom geo frames that are longer and slacker than stock. Barel's 60 degree head angle=slack.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
I think you'll find most pro racers custom bikes match that geo.
Having reduced rear wheel weight and having the mass of weight low between your legs makes the bike very manouvorable. You just weigh the front in tighter corners,no big deal,or reduce your forks travel for tighter tracks.
The negative preaching is a bit dramatised. Mine with 8" 40s is just slacker then 65degree in the high BB setting.
 

LaharDesign

Monkey
Jun 16, 2006
159
0
Nah, it's longer/slacker than most bikes, and you have to keep in mind that it gets even longer (chainstays/wheelbase) under sag cos of the axle path. Most high pivot bikes start off with shortish stays (17" or less) to compensate for that, but the Lahar starts long and gets really long. The really long chainstays are about the only thing I didn't like about the bike (well other than the marketing), they make it pretty hard to square off tight corners.

Too be fair you should mention the the DH tracks were closed by heavy rain and you had to do your test on some walking tracks with sod all terrain or gradient.
The Geo is what has been adamantly demanded by every dh racer that I know. We tried a little shorter and steeper with the m8 but it made for a twitchy and skittery ride comparitively with more likelyhood of crashing. If I made my chainstay even 10mm shorter It'd be the same as another brand beginning with "B" with simular independant high pivot rear. They were bought by a number of kiwi racers in 2004 because Lahars exploits in 02,03 convinced them of the high pivot advantages. They all got rid of them after 1 season because "too short and steep".
Dirtdigger your bike looks cool with those singlecrowns. Next time you come to Rotovegas stop by and let me try it.
Whoops, you may be right. The skill I don't have is called "machiavellian intelligence" ( the ability to deceive and manipulate others). I'm too easily sucked in by rich sods who say one thing and do another because I'm a team player who plays games of mutual gain.
Unfortunately several times now Lahar has proven too attractive to very rich individuals who prefer games of winners and losers. Also when you look at the capitalists in this country, it becomes clear that a culture of not believing anything world class can be done locally exists.
I have heard "the first rule of venture capital is fire the founder" chanted like a mantra by these people. Smash and grab of a project followed by sale to an international concern is the agenda lusted for and boasted about at gin palace gatherings. Countless Lawyers have warned me about the importance of never allowing investment near any company holding IP or brands. About 4-5 different companies with investment only in a disposable trading company with non transferable licences is the only way to go. 10-20 thousand dollars to set up these structures and agreements. If you don't spend this before approaching investors then you'll find yourself in a siege position where attempts are made to grind down your resistance and talk you into danger while resources are withheld.
 

Whoops

Turbo Monkey
Jul 9, 2006
1,011
0
New Zealand
Whoops, you may be right. ... (snip)
Yep, you're right there too - especially in NZ, most of our VC's are cowboys, and many of our 'angel investors' would never get anywhere near a halo. (by the way, like the reference to World Class.... It's a bit of a thing where I work...)

Money is easy to get (sort of), and the hardest part you've already done. If you want to be a boutique frame builder you're doing just fine. If, as I said you want to spread the luuurve of Lahar further afeild then you need to learn to;
  1. find the right VC and business development team
  2. beat the bad ones at their own game (not recommended)

but I wasn't talking about VC $$ really...

As far as I can see - even with your diabolic, shambolic, possibly alchoholic :shocked: marketing efforts you've got a superb ultra-niche brand, backed by a novel and high performing design. There's no need to reduce costs (esp if you're targetting the US and EU markets)... but production volumes (and associated customer services issues) will kill Lahar off/throttle to negligibilty unless you can sort them out.

I presume FRST and TNZ grants have been exhausted?

Thought of partnering with Rohloff? You'd provide them with an 'edge', and a useful R&D platform. At the least I would expect they should be giving you their hubs. (eg: Lahar, powered by Rohloff... taking the "Rohloff inside" / "Intel inside" angle) THAT'S where the mtb market is going in 5 years time - if they want to be a player vs Shimano and the G-BOXX crowd then they need to grab as much market share/kudos as they can.


Love your work.


edit to say - I suppose you've played the NZTE card too? It IS export year after all... and you're a budding exporter.
 

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
Too be fair you should mention the the DH tracks were closed by heavy rain and you had to do your test on some walking tracks with sod all terrain or gradient.
The Geo is what has been adamantly demanded by every dh racer that I know. We tried a little shorter and steeper with the m8 but it made for a twitchy and skittery ride comparitively with more likelyhood of crashing. If I made my chainstay even 10mm shorter It'd be the same as another brand beginning with "B" with simular independant high pivot rear. They were bought by a number of kiwi racers in 2004 because Lahars exploits in 02,03 convinced them of the high pivot advantages. They all got rid of them after 1 season because "too short and steep".
Dirtdigger your bike looks cool with those singlecrowns. Next time you come to Rotovegas stop by and let me try it.
Whoops, you may be right. The skill I don't have is called "machiavellian intelligence" ( the ability to deceive and manipulate others). I'm too easily sucked in by rich sods who say one thing and do another because I'm a team player who plays games of mutual gain.
Unfortunately several times now Lahar has proven too attractive to very rich individuals who prefer games of winners and losers. Also when you look at the capitalists in this country, it becomes clear that a culture of not believing anything world class can be done locally exists.
I have heard "the first rule of venture capital is fire the founder" chanted like a mantra by these people. Smash and grab of a project followed by sale to an international concern is the agenda lusted for and boasted about at gin palace gatherings. Countless Lawyers have warned me about the importance of never allowing investment near any company holding IP or brands. About 4-5 different companies with investment only in a disposable trading company with non transferable licences is the only way to go. 10-20 thousand dollars to set up these structures and agreements. If you don't spend this before approaching investors then you'll find yourself in a siege position where attempts are made to grind down your resistance and talk you into danger while resources are withheld.
That is, without a doubt the most bad ass post in any forum I have ever read.
You are the king man, keep up the great work and words.
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Too be fair you should mention the the DH tracks were closed by heavy rain and you had to do your test on some walking tracks with sod all terrain or gradient.
The Geo is what has been adamantly demanded by every dh racer that I know. We tried a little shorter and steeper with the m8 but it made for a twitchy and skittery ride comparitively with more likelyhood of crashing. If I made my chainstay even 10mm shorter It'd be the same as another brand beginning with "B" with simular independant high pivot rear. They were bought by a number of kiwi racers in 2004 because Lahars exploits in 02,03 convinced them of the high pivot advantages. They all got rid of them after 1 season because "too short and steep".
haha, haven't seen too many walking tracks with berms and doubles on em... or braking bumps :poster_oops: . FYI, from what I remember, only one track was closed and that was the Nats track. Yeah we rode goat-track stuff too, but that's not at all what I'm basing my opinion on - please don't bother trying to rubbish what I say just because I have a (subjective) criticism of your bike. Fair enough that you think the chainstays need to be whatever length... I disagree. For sure, it's great when you're going fast (and I had no problems at all with the head angle at any speed, for the record), but in the tight stuff it does make the bike slower-handling. It's a simple high/low speed tradeoff like everyone has to make - if the bike is particularly long and slack, it's going to be very stable, because stability IS simply a lowered response to input. There is no way around this. Conversely, make something super responsive (like an XC bike, which needs it for climbing efficiency at low speed) and it obviously becomes very unstable at speed. Trying to find a compromise is what it's all about, and obviously your opinion of where that balance point is differs from mine. In fact I'd even say that I could live with the wheelbase if the chainstays were shorter (ie BB just moved rearwards relative to the rest of the bike) but again, that's just me.

For a WC racer, on courses where the average speed is higher than the typical punter's track (not aimed at "the" Punter!), this might be highly advantageous, and as you say, plenty of pros run slacker/longer than stock bikes. However - there is a reason why the production models aren't the same as the pros' bikes, and as (in my opinion) a reasonable representative of your everyday DH rider, I feel that that's probably because world cup courses tend to be a LOT more wide-open, steeper and faster than what the average rider averagely rides. I remember seeing some results from one of the WCs a couple of years back, I think at Fort William, and the average speed was something insane like 48km/h - that's faster than the MAXIMUM speed you reach on many tracks here in Oz... as an average! Given the relatively open terrain in NZ, your tracks might typically be closer to the WC style stuff than ours, but for what I and most Aussies ride... it's not the same. Hence why, I suspect, the super low/long/slack bikes that the pros ask for are "toned down" for the general public. This isn't meant as any attack on your bike... but I think it comes down to the fact that we may well be looking at somewhat differing versions/scales of downhill riding/racing, and that's quite probably why what you consider an appropriate chainstay length is too long for my liking (and vice versa). Horses for courses... almost literally.
 

ZUMBI

Chimp
Mar 22, 2007
67
0
Myslenice, Poland
Whoops, you may be right. The skill I don't have is called "machiavellian intelligence" ( the ability to deceive and manipulate others). I'm too easily sucked in by rich sods who say one thing and do another because I'm a team player who plays games of mutual gain.
Unfortunately several times now Lahar has proven too attractive to very rich individuals who prefer games of winners and losers. Also when you look at the capitalists in this country, it becomes clear that a culture of not believing anything world class can be done locally exists.
I have heard "the first rule of venture capital is fire the founder" chanted like a mantra by these people. Smash and grab of a project followed by sale to an international concern is the agenda lusted for and boasted about at gin palace gatherings. Countless Lawyers have warned me about the importance of never allowing investment near any company holding IP or brands. About 4-5 different companies with investment only in a disposable trading company with non transferable licences is the only way to go. 10-20 thousand dollars to set up these structures and agreements. If you don't spend this before approaching investors then you'll find yourself in a siege position where attempts are made to grind down your resistance and talk you into danger while resources are withheld.
totally understand You LaharDesign
There is not much of us on this planet with that kind of philosophy
Keep on riding and keep it real!