Need some gamer help...

Zark · Dec 10, 2007

I think the Clancey games are on both platforms, no?
GT5 looks so goddamn good. When it comes out I'll get a HDTV, a Ps3 and the game....its gonna be expensive.

Spero · Dec 10, 2007

The 360 has reverse compatibility also - http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm

I hear that the PS3 is having serious issues with reverse compatibility. That's another thumbs down for the PS3 IMO

jimmydean · Dec 10, 2007

Isn't the PS3 wicked expensive too?

Potroast88 · Dec 10, 2007

I just bought a PS3 a few days ago and I am blown away by it. It was a toss-up between the 360 and the PS3, but I thought the PS had more bang for the buck. I bought the 80g version and it is backwards compatible to some PS2 games. Here's what sold me:

PS3 has Blue Ray built in- 360 is an extra $99.00 for the HD DVD player.
PS3 has built in wireless-360 is an extra $99.00 for the network adapter.
PS online is free- XBox Live is about $80.00/year.

Those were the main selling points for me. The number of games is greater for 360, but PS will catch up up.
The 80g version is $499.00 plus it comes with Motorstorm ($59.00 new).
I have been a fan of the Tiger Woods games for several years and I bought '08. It has a feature that allows you to upload a photo of yourself to the website and it generates a player. Mine looks just like me.
I don't regret buying the PS3 one bit. It's awesome. And it looks great in HD.

Spero · Dec 10, 2007

Potroast88 said:
I just bought a PS3 a few days ago and I am blown away by it. It was a toss-up between the 360 and the PS3, but I thought the PS had more bang for the buck. I bought the 80g version and it is backwards compatible to some PS2 games. Here's what sold me:

PS3 has Blue Ray built in- 360 is an extra $99.00 for the HD DVD player.
PS3 has built in wireless-360 is an extra $99.00 for the network adapter.
PS online is free- XBox Live is about $80.00/year.

Those were the main selling points for me. The number of games is greater for 360, but PS will catch up up.
The 80g version is $499.00 plus it comes with Motorstorm ($59.00 new).
I have been a fan of the Tiger Woods games for several years and I bought '08. It has a feature that allows you to upload a photo of yourself to the website and it generates a player. Mine looks just like me.
I don't regret buying the PS3 one bit. It's awesome. And it looks great in HD.

You bring up another issue that has had me on the fence about the two. I think if there was a way to determine which format (HD DVD or Blueray) is going to win out, I'd probably go with that considering the cost of buying a separate peripheral.

jimmydean · Dec 10, 2007

Potroast88 said:
I just bought a PS3 a few days ago and I am blown away by it. It was a toss-up between the 360 and the PS3, but I thought the PS had more bang for the buck. I bought the 80g version and it is backwards compatible to some PS2 games. Here's what sold me:

PS3 has Blue Ray built in- 360 is an extra $99.00 for the HD DVD player.
PS3 has built in wireless-360 is an extra $99.00 for the network adapter.
PS online is free- XBox Live is about $80.00/year.

Those were the main selling points for me. The number of games is greater for 360, but PS will catch up up.
The 80g version is $499.00 plus it comes with Motorstorm ($59.00 new).
I have been a fan of the Tiger Woods games for several years and I bought '08. It has a feature that allows you to upload a photo of yourself to the website and it generates a player. Mine looks just like me.
I don't regret buying the PS3 one bit. It's awesome. And it looks great in HD.

Now that's not so bad right there. Considering the built-in setups, I would get it. but I still don't care for consoles over the PC for games, though.

SilentJ · Dec 10, 2007

I chose the PS3 for essentially the same reasons as Potroast88.

Compatiblility list here: http://www.ps3comp.com/view.asp

Unfortunately for you, BMXman, GT4 is one of the few games that has issues. I've played GT4 a bit on PS3 and havent run into them, however.

Edit: I'm not sure what's on the shelves now, but when I bought my 80GB version the 60GB version was selling with the Emotion chip for backwards compatibility. The 80 uses software instead...I guess if neither work with GT4, it really doesnt matter.

I thought the 360 was consistently having hardware issues?

laura · Dec 10, 2007

BMXman said:
I searched here but couldn't really find much info.....I have a PS2 and an xbox...but they no longer make games for xbox and I only have the PS2 so I can play Gran Turismo! So my questions is, should I get a PS3 or and Xbox 360? Now I don't play a lot of games...but I'm into FPS, sports, and Clancy games.

I know if I bought a 360, Rainbow 6 Vegas is a must have as well as the latest WTP 2008 game. Does anyone on here have both? and how do they compare? I doubt I would play much xbox live so it isn't a big deal. I don't like Halo either. I'm a huge Gran Turismo fan and the next one will only come out on the PS3 system. Also is there a big difference between the arcade, 20GB, 120GB xbox? any and all info would be appreciated....D

Remember all those questions you had about adults and wrestling?

ire · Dec 10, 2007

Spero said:
You bring up another issue that has had me on the fence about the two. I think if there was a way to determine which format (HD DVD or Blueray) is going to win out, I'd probably go with that considering the cost of buying a separate peripheral.

I bought a PS3 for and agree with all the previous statements. Its a killer system with better hardware than the Xbox. As far as HD vs Bluray, HD is at max capacity for storage and Bluray is just beginning....Bluray has room for growth, so I'm betting it will win out. Not to say that win would come anytime soon, it may take many years.

<edit> I just bought Resistance, Fall of Man....I love it! Killer FPS

stinkyboy · Dec 10, 2007

Reactor · Dec 10, 2007

I have the ps3 with emotion chip and haven't had any compatibility problems. Games seem to have a better depth than the same game on the 360. Oblivion loads faster and looks better on the ps3. No vibration controller, but it will be out soon

stevew · Dec 10, 2007

SilentJ said:
I thought the 360 was consistently having hardware issues?

I think Reactor has said he has gone through at least two...

Dog Welder · Dec 10, 2007

One other bit of info that can make or break the system. If first person shooters are more your forte then I suggest 360. The fine movements on the 360 joystick is far more controllable than the ps3. Sony's joysticks are "analog" but if you ever played a fps on the ps2 you know how frustrating it is putting the crosshairs on a target sometimes. Or even playing Gran Tourismo, unless you have a super sensitive thumb you are pretty much turning full left or full right. The PS3 is a little better but not by much. That's why my 360 is my gaming rig and my PS3 is my dvd player. Plus Call of Duty 4 RAWKS when you can actually control it.

Potroast88 · Dec 10, 2007

Also, I'm not sure about the 360. but the PS3 is Bluetooth compatible.
I work with a guy that has gone through 3 360s. He keeps getting the "red ring of death". It has been taken care of every time, but it's big hassle. The first one he bought was bad straight out of the box.

SilentJ · Dec 10, 2007

Potroast88 said:
Also, I'm not sure about the 360. but the PS3 is Bluetooth compatible.

There's a downside to that: I now expect all my remotes to work without having line of sight! :rant:

I find the X button too sensitive for throttle on the sixaxis controller compared to the dualshock2...thats my only real complaint.

Reactor · Dec 10, 2007

stevew said:
I think Reactor has said he has gone through at least two...

I'm on my fourth Xbox360. One died the first day (red ring of death), the second had a DVD drive die after six months, third had the red ring of death six months later, and now I'm on the fourth. M$ is spending over a billion dollars on Xbox360 repairs.

My wife is on her third, all RROD.
http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/support/petermooreletter.htm

Reactor · Dec 10, 2007

This guy has had at least a dozen:

A Tale of 11 Broken Xbox 360s

One person's bad luck or proof of a serious problem? You be the judge.
By Philip Kollar, 06/26/2007

"I can't comment on failure rates, because it's just not something - it's a moving target. What this consumer should worry about is the way that we've treated him. Y'know, things break, and if we've treated him well and fixed his problem, that's something that we're focused on right now."
-- Peter Moore on Xbox 360 failure rates

Average, Aggravated Gamers
Justin Lowe is your average hardcore gamer. He's fully embraced the HD era, owning both PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, and loves his Nintendo DS and PSP for gaming on-the-go. He even helps run Aggravated Gamers, an indie gaming podcast. What's special about Justin, though, is he's currently on his twelfth Xbox 360.

"I'm no fanboy," he says, but there's no doubt he's a 360 fan. He purchased his first machine a month after the console launch, but, since then, Justin has not had a working system for longer than a month or two. The list of problems is almost comically large: three red lights of death, two with disc read errors, two dead on arrival, several with random audio and video-related issues and one that actually exploded.

Looking at the situation through Moore's own standards, how has Microsoft performed? "On a scale of one to ten, I'd rate them an 8... at first," says Lowe. His 360 broke in early January, just a few weeks after purchase. For the first six months, Microsoft customer service was polite and replacements sent very quickly. Since then, things have slowly but surely taken a turn for the worse. As the reported number of problems with 360 consoles increases (Microsoft writes them off as "vocal minority"), shipping has started taking longer and customer service less helpful.

As Justin garnered more experience with 360 repairs, he discovered something. The consoles consumers sent back by Microsoft are often refurbished, rather than brand-new. Justin found out that, with enough problems and by specifically making the request, Microsoft would send out brand-new consoles as replacements. Midway through his ordeal, he began doing this, but quickly found the downside: new consoles can take even longer to send out, with up to two weeks spent waiting for Microsoft approval. Microsoft has compensated Justin to some degree. A month of Xbox Live service, replacement headsets, some free Microsoft Points and at least one free game were offered at various points. He claims to have never asked for anything beyond the Xbox Live time.

When his third 360 broke, one customer service rep suggested he look into the wiring at his house; electricity problems could have been causing the mess-ups. Problem: none of his other systems (not to mention his several computers and other electronics) have experienced any major problems, and his father is, coincidentally, an electrician. The specific suggestion was brought up by Microsoft customer service again after the eighth console repair. This time, just to be certain, Justin had a contractor come to the house and check the wiring, where he was told that everything was in order, with no abnormalities in voltage of any of house outlets. Nevertheless, customer service has continued to suggest this as a potential cause.

If Justin's story seems too crazy to be believed here on 1UP, it's unsurprising to learn that's how message boards responded, too. He posted his plight at both Cheap Ass Gamer and NeoGAF and was promptly called a liar by many, before he decided to record a call with Microsoft's customer support.

In an MP3 that Justin shared with 1UP -- which you can listen to below -- he asks a service representative to read off his support/repair request numbers. After opening the account, the rep lets out an audible laugh. He reads them off and confirms they are under Justin's account. Just to be sure, 1UP called into Xbox Live support with Justin's contact info and asked for the same information. Again, the person on the other end laughed when they accessed Justin's account, remarking, "It looks like you have a lot of numbers."

Listen Now:

To the various internet commentators and those manning Microsoft's customer service phone lines, it seems an unbelievable joke, but, to Justin, each one of those numbers represents another little headache and two or three weeks without his console. "I am still a huge fan of the 360, even with all of the problems," he says. "It's just the 360 is where the games are at right now." Justin owns nearly 20 games for 360.

Justin's eleventh 360 sports an all-new problem that popped up shortly after 1UP originally contacted him. This time, it's a sound-related issue, causing loud, experience-ruining crackles that pop in and out of games. Justin just recently received the box to ship this console back for his twelfth shot at something that works, but initially held off to take part in the Halo 3 beta and check out Forza Motorsport 2.

Gamers, We Have a Problem
1UP contacted Microsoft -- including an Xbox AOC Escalation Lead Justin interacted with -- before running this story. "We are disappointed any time we hear about a customer having a negative experience with our products or services. Justin Lowe's experience is highly unusual and we are actively investigating the situation further to ensure that we are taking responsibility where we need to," said a Microsoft spokesperson. "You will be pleased to hear that Justin is back to playing his favorite Xbox 360 games now that he has received a brand-new console."

That's true. Justin confirmed to us Microsoft shipped him another working console, but Microsoft continually dodged 1UP's attempts to specifically discuss Xbox 360 failure rates and attributed some of the public disdain to dissatisfaction with customer service, not the actual hardware. Changes to the customer service program were rolled out in April, said Microsoft.

"We've heard from enough customers to know there was a trend in customer service dissatisfaction that we needed to correct. As a result, we are delivering on a commitment to deliver an improved Xbox customer service experience for Xbox 360 consoles that is faster, more efficient and includes shipping free of any charge," said the company. "As you can imagine, implementing process and policy changes can be an enormous undertaking."

But, bad luck aside, is this reflective of a larger problem with the Xbox 360 console itself? In an interview at The Mercury News, Todd Holmdahl, corporate vice president of the Gaming and Xbox Products Group, attributed the complaints over hardware to be a "vocal minority" and nothing more. "I would go back and say the vast majority of people love their experience. We continue to go back and address all of these issues on a case by case basis," he said.

When asked if Microsoft still agreed with Holmdahl's comment that complaints were just a "vocal minority," they did. "Yes, Microsoft stands by Todd's statement," said the company.

When specifically asked about the additional heat sinks appearing in refurbished Xbox 360s and how customer service determines if a consumer receives a brand-new machine or a refurbished one:

1UP: Microsoft won't comment on these second heat sinks showing up in refurbished Xbox 360s -- which, as far as we know so far, are not in the retail units -- so how does customer service determine whether someone should receive a "new" machine and an internally "refurbished" one?

Microsoft: In either an in-warranty or out-of-warranty situation, most customers will now receive their original console back from Microsoft so there is no need for customers to reload profiles, games or other content previously stored on their hard drive. This is part of our ongoing-effort to improve our repair warranty program and enhance our customer service operations.

Similar dodging occurred a few weeks ago, when asked about the heat sinks. Despite the visual evidence, Microsoft refused to confirm their existence.

1UP: Reports are surfacing of users getting refurbished Xbox 360s with additional heat sinks installed in them...can Microsoft confirm?

Microsoft: In response to your inquiry, regularly updating console components is commonplace within the industry and is a standard aspect of the business for a variety of reasons including cost reduction, improved manufacturability and improved performance. We do not provide details on these updates.

1UP: But, will they appear in on-shelf Xbox 360s?

Microsoft: Again, regularly updating console components is commonplace within the industry and is a standard aspect of the business for a variety of reasons including cost reduction, improved manufacturability and improved performance. We do not provide details on these updates.

In spite of all of this, Justin is still behind Microsoft's console. "I still like Microsoft, as much as that may astound people. There's no real hate towards the company for what I have experienced."

This article was before microsoft admitted the problem, and may be the straw that broke the camels back.

loco-gringo · Dec 10, 2007

laura said:
Remember all those questions you had about adults and wrestling?

Reactor · Dec 10, 2007

BMXman said:
Also is there a big difference between the arcade, 20GB, 120GB xbox? any and all info would be appreciated....D

Xb0x360
Arcade system = old stripped core system with a couple of do dads included.
20 GB system = standard (No HDMI, no HD DVD)
120 GB system = Elite, has HDMI out but standard DVD player.

As someone who is lucky enough to have both a PS3 and an Xbox360:

I'm running a standard Xbox360 via composite cables and the 60gb PS3 (hardware ps2, not software emulation) over HDMI. There isn't much difference between HDMI and composite video on a standard 720p/1080I TV IMHO, but if you have a 1080P TV the HDMI should look better. The PS3 has lots of additional features like bluetooth, wired and wireless NICs, SD-CF-memory stick-usb memory support.

The PS3 looks better in most games because of sheer processing power and memory. In oblivion, originally written for the Xbox360, the PS3 has about twice the video depth, i.e. it populated objects twice as far from the user, so you don't get the pop-up tree effect. On the other hand it's harder to write games for the PS3 to use the eight core processor, and sony is only now making it easier on developers to write code for the PS3. The PS3 is amazingly powerful.

The Xbox360 on the other hand, has more games, lots more. I just spent the last couple of weeks playing through "MASS EFFECT" several times. It isn't available on the PS3 and never will be, because it was produced by a company strongly tied to Microsoft. The newest ACE combat, a perennial favorite on the PS2 is only out on the Xbox360. When the PS3 failed to immediately take off a lot of developers were wooed to the xbox360 and dropped the priority of producing PS3 games.

Microsoft also wants to start distributing movies via xbox live, hence the newer large 120gb hard drive. As a game console it's more than powerful enough for hardcore games. You have to wonder when the Xbox720 is coming out, though.

Lastly, I'm on my fourth xbox360. From what I've gleened from several sources the six month failure rate on "original design" xbox360 is about 50% The one year failure rate is bout 75%+. I had extended warranties that cost a total of $90 on my second and third xbox360s, #2 had the DVD drive die, which turns out to be a manufacturing problem. #3 Died the ring of death, now a known problem. I shouldn't have had to use my extended warranty in either case, but I did and it irked me. Since then Microsoft has made design changes, and extended their warranty so I don't think it's as big an issue as it was. They have also been so beat up by customers they are really trying hard to help customers now.

One note on xbox live and downloaded content. Normally all profiles on an xbox360 can use downloaded content (game mods, games, feature packs). If your Xbox360 fails and you move your hard drive to another box, or use the profile recovery feature only the original profile can use the downloaded content. This highly irked me, because I use profiles to keep saved games in oblivion. It took a hour and a half phone call to Microsoft to try to get the content to work on my new Xbox360. The support person, and manageer kept insisting it should work but it didn't. Finally they offered to refund my microsoft points, if I faxed them copies of my original and replaced xbox360 receipts.

If I could have only one console it would probably be the xbox360 just because of the game selection. If I was buying a console I wanted to last several problem free years, and had the highest potential I'd buy the PS3. Most major games third party games will come out for both. If you get the PS3 and have PS2 games you still like, I'd try to get the 60 GB with the Emotion chip. If you get the Xbox, you might consider the newer elite version, it's a newer design and may be less troublesome.

greenchris · Dec 10, 2007

actually xbox live is more like 50ish for 13 months...
the regular 350 dollar xbox IS hdmi, fyi....
xbox live trumps ps3 online. Don't say you wont use it as rainbow six and cod4 are AMAZing online...
you can buy the hd dvd player for the box for about a hundo
although i don't hang out at gamestop and don't play every game but I never hear about ps3 being sicker than the box. I always hear people buying the box or the wii. Maybe thats just me but there doesn't seem to be that many converts from xbox to ps.
as far as the damages to the system... it sucks. im on my second system now and they fixed it for free and paid for shipping but i didnt have a box for a month. i have heard of instances where it took under two weeks. To get around this get the system at bestbuy( you got them in canada, eh?) pay the sixty bucks so if it breaks you get a new one right away!

a-swill · Dec 10, 2007

**** xbox im on my third xbox 360 because of harware failer now i have a ps3 the graphics are a little bit better but i like it alot more

greenchris · Dec 10, 2007

it sounds like you already know what you want. I've been happy with the box but it does suck to have to pay for live and the issues with it breaking. With how things last nowadays you have to buy the extended warranty for everything, anyways.

.:Jeenyus:. · Dec 11, 2007

SilentJ said:
There's a downside to that: I now expect all my remotes to work without having line of sight!

I find the X button too sensitive for throttle on the sixaxis controller compared to the dualshock2...thats my only real complaint.

use R2 for throttle; ridiculous amount of control.

ire · Dec 11, 2007

SilentJ said:
I find the X button too sensitive for throttle on the sixaxis controller compared to the dualshock2...thats my only real complaint.

My big complaint is that it doesn't provide me with the sex I miss by playing video games and not spending time with the wife

SilentJ · Dec 11, 2007

.:Jeenyus:. said:
use R2 for throttle; ridiculous amount of control.

I'm trying, but just can't get used to it. R2 needs a bit more of a "hook" - my finger keeps slipping off.

SilentJ · Dec 11, 2007

BMXman said:
LOL..and Laura is worried about me

heh...I have about 2.5 hours playing time since I got it. Really, it was just my first impression coming from the ps2 controller.

Reactor · Dec 11, 2007

greenchris said:
actually xbox live is more like 50ish for 13 months...
the regular 350 dollar xbox IS hdmi, fyi....
xbox live trumps ps3 online. Don't say you wont use it as rainbow six and cod4 are AMAZing online...
you can buy the hd dvd player for the box for about a hundo
although i don't hang out at gamestop and don't play every game but I never hear about ps3 being sicker than the box. I always hear people buying the box or the wii. Maybe thats just me but there doesn't seem to be that many converts from xbox to ps.
as far as the damages to the system... it sucks. im on my second system now and they fixed it for free and paid for shipping but i didnt have a box for a month. i have heard of instances where it took under two weeks. To get around this get the system at bestbuy( you got them in canada, eh?) pay the sixty bucks so if it breaks you get a new one right away!

To clarify, the standard xbox360 is HDMI compatible if you pay $49.99 extra for the special HDMI Xbox360 HDMI cable. The ps3 has HDMI built in and uses any hdmi cable. If you want HDMI you'ed be better getting the elite version because the HDMI cable is included, and it's a hundred bucks more and has a larger hard drive. And the more popular blu-ray is included with the PS3, in fact blockbuster no longer rents hd-dvds after finding that 70% of the HD movies rented were blu-ray

You have a source on failure rates? Microsoft took a charge to profits of about $100 per xbox360, or enough to repair almost every xbox360 it had sold at the time. At the one year point retailers are saying over a third had already come back for warranty, and the xbox360 was in short supply for the six months it was out, so I weighted the averages by the number of consoles sold and the time since they were sold. An informal check of my friends backs up my estimate, seriously I don't know anyone with an xbox360 that hasn't had at least one fail . While I was talking to a game shop manager, a customer came in for their fourth console straight DOA console. We have two xbox360s and were on our sixth and seventh units, we bought the first units about six months after the xbox360 came out. Failure rates are under 1% on the Wii and PS3.

Reactor · Dec 11, 2007

ire said:
My big complaint is that it doesn't provide me with the sex I miss by playing video games and not spending time with the wife

I've been married 17 years, I'm not missing much sex. :rolleyes:

syadasti · Dec 11, 2007

Reactor said:
Xb0x360
Arcade system = old stripped core system with a couple of do dads included.
20 GB system = standard (No HDMI, no HD DVD)
120 GB system = Elite, has HDMI out but standard DVD player.

As someone who is lucky enough to have both a PS3 and an Xbox360:

I don't own any video game systems but the failure rates should go down with all the design changes. I think most Arcade versions are in fact the newest 360 design with falcon revision(65nm CPU, revised motherboard, different PSU, and updated cooling system.)

In 08 the 360 will have the Jasper revision with the 65nm ATi GPU shrink.

Falcon Info:
http://forums.xbox.com/15804553/ShowPost.aspx

Drive DB w/revision info:
http://www.360drives.com/list

laura · Dec 11, 2007

BMXman said:
lol..it's better for me to race in video games then play Tokyo drift like muddy on real streets...D

Something tells me a similar argument could be made for watching wrestling.

Reactor · Dec 11, 2007

syadasti said:
I don't own any video game systems but the failure rates should go down with all the design changes. I think most Arcade versions are in fact the newest 360 design with falcon revision(65nm CPU, revised motherboard, different PSU, and updated cooling system.)

In 08 the 360 will have the Jasper revision with the 65nm ATi GPU shrink.

Falcon Info:
http://forums.xbox.com/15804553/ShowPost.aspx

Drive DB w/revision info:
http://www.360drives.com/list

Sorry, I meant old as in remarketed, not the hardware. I believe ms has made a very substantial effort to correct problems with the xbox360, and the failure rates will come down. We just don't know how much. Even the lowest estimate of past failure rates is still orders of magnitude higher than they should have been. My newest xbox360 is louder then the prior three so I'm hoping they made a change to cooling.

jimmydean · Dec 11, 2007

I would have given up on the 360 after a second failure. I guess that's why I run Linux rather than Windows.

syadasti · Dec 11, 2007

jimmydean said:
I would have given up on the 360 after a second failure. I guess that's why I run Linux rather than Windows.

Sounds on par with Apple hardware defect/failure rates even after several revisions :busted:

BurlyShirley said:
4 hardware failures on my Mac

heat sensor issue
LCD died
top case cracked twice for no reason
battery took a crap
...Im probably forgetting something too. They did fix it all for free, however.

Toshi said:
actually, if you know how to play them the "mac geniuses" can be useful. i got three ipod photos replaced in a row, simply by bringing them into the apple store when they were frozen solid, beyond the grasp of the center button-menu reset. (if i had waited until the battery had discharged then i'd be out of luck, as it would reboot and work fine.)

after the third one went dead they gave me an ipod video instead, which has been without a problem.

Need some gamer help...

I wish I was Canadian

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?

ass rainbow

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

YouTube Boy

ass rainbow

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

trail builder

DH_Laura

Turbo Monkey

Plastic Santa

Turbo Monkey

resident influencer

Turbo Monkey

YouTube Boy

trail builder

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Crusading Clamp Monkey

Turbo Monkey

I wish I was Canadian

Turbo Monkey

Chimp

I wish I was Canadian

I wish I was Canadian

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

I wish I was Canadian

Turbo Monkey

I wish I was Canadian

trail builder

I wish I was Canadian

trail builder

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

i heart mac

DH_Laura

Turbo Monkey

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

i heart mac