i believe they co-developped the VPP with SCI'm willing to bet VPP is cheaper from SC.
i believe they co-developped the VPP with SCI'm willing to bet VPP is cheaper from SC.
hey not bad, havent oozed for months....
yeah i'm not sure why people find this so hard to believe, two companies with very similar products and tangental patents...who's gonna win the lawsuit? How many innocent people go to jail each year because they cant afford a decent lawyer?
Stratos did claim on their website awhile ago that they had to stop selling the ID cart (i wanted one for my Shiver). I didnt understand at the time considering they claimed to be licencees from another company.
Shocknerd said:I've been studying this situation because I have an interest in how this all turns out. I've gone to the LA court basement and read all the documents. Because I invent for a living, it's important to learn a much as I can on how the system works. Because Specialized is using some of the best patent lawyers in the US, it's an opportunity to learn from the best. I have have learned how to get patents on things I thought were already invented. I have credit were credit is due, I didn't think of this myself. I'll do my best to pass on what I have learned on how the system works. First thing is do research, search patents, check out automotive applications, call companies working on bicycle applications of flow control inertia valves ie:12/09/98 and hope they're not taking detailed notes of the conversation. File a patent 6 months later but be sure not to mention what you learned in your research, that would make it almost impossible to get a patent. Fight for a patent even if it means you have to convince the examiner that it's so narrow and undesirable , it's virtually worthless. Now, let's say you go to a convention and see another device that's not covered by your patent, you get your attorney to argue to the patent office that version was in the original disclosure, you make the claims broader in some ways to cover the newly discovered device in what's called a continuation patent. You now have patents that on the surface appear to be virtually worthless because they are so narrow. They're not, they now can be used as "tickets" to get into court. That makes them valuable. You can now use the "patents" to drag companies into extremly expensive litigation, even if they are selling devices that were offered for sale before your inventor even worked for you. Once in court it's very important to change your position relative to the one you took at the patent office. Some call it "taking contradictory positions in differant venues", I call it being creative. You argue to the judge that he's not supposed to look at the file history were you take a differant position to overcome rejections. You argue that he's to take the most liberal dictionary definition of key words in the claims from and again don't look into he file history. If you get the judge to buy into the liberal dictionary definition, you've got the industry by the tail. Congratulations, you can now charge infringement on inertia valve systems literally going back to 1913 (Goodyear). By following cases like this in great detail, I have been able to learn a great deal on how the system works, if you are able to afford the big law firms. I hope this online education experience is helpful. I'm assuming/representing that the big firms are not breaking any laws, just being aggressive.
The vpp linkage was originally brought to market by a now defunct company called "Outland". I think SC and Intense bought the rights together, and agreed to develop it seperatley for their own use.i believe they co-developped the VPP with SC
yup thats it exactly. we've been through this years ago. can we please keep this topic on target.The vpp linkage was originally brought to market by a now defunct company called "Outland". I think SC and Intense bought the rights together, and agreed to develop it seperatley for their own use.
I haven't checked the dates, but most U.S. Patents are good for 17 years.i think i may have heard here that the fsr patent is up next year. not sure of the truth to this so i figured i'd ask in this thread to see if anyone has any details? sounded like one of the many false rumors going around here, but this thread has made me kind of curious.
2) or they won't give a shivt, and specialized will have to come up with some other so-called straightline wheel path, no pedal bob nirvana to market.
oops, sorry, drifted ot again....just as I'm bitching about it on another thread....
yea, I know, I was hoping the heavy dose of sarcasm would offset marketing's ability to disobey physics...The axle path on a Demo8 is forward arcing. I traced it out a couple weeks ago. It's defitely not vertical.
I'm not sure they ever made mountain bike suspension.Wow......I didn't even realize Stratos was still making mountain bike suspension.
I'm not sure they ever made mountain bike suspension.
Close. Yes, outland patented it and brought it to market first, but SC bought the patents and licenses it to Intense - they didn't buy it together.The vpp linkage was originally brought to market by a now defunct company called "Outland". I think SC and Intense bought the rights together, and agreed to develop it seperatley for their own use.
Yeah.Not as trick as the Stratos double chamber CNC'd bongs. Heat sinks on the bowl, couldn't spill water. That thing was bad ass.
They should have marketed that instead of lockout cartridges, might still be in business!
Stratos has been screwed up for a LONG time.
Basically it comes down to Mike, the owner, being a good engineer with bad business skills. They've lost many great employees that were making the whole thing actually work, to his stupidity. Randolph could really lay the smack down about the company.
Its kinda too bad. They had some great ideas and some industry firsts.
They had large air volume air shocks that didn't feel like poo.
They had the first lockout rear shock, even a remote for it.
The S8 was a bad ass fork. Plow anything over. Just too tall and heavy.
I have a question. Around year 2,000 ~ 2,001 there sure were TONS of Stratos cheerleaders posting on the forums.
I see a few have jumped ship and are now haters. What ever happened to the rest of them? Hummm .....
It's all part of the "Bandwagon". Back then Stratos could do no wrong, true "Nobody" played a big part in there popularity & excellent customer service, however I thought they made a nice product. Funny how in around 2001-2004 the Boxxers had the issue with seal leakage as did Stratos, funny how everyone bashed on the small guy and supported the big company.I have a question. Around year 2,000 ~ 2,001 there sure were TONS of Stratos cheerleaders posting on the forums.
I see a few have jumped ship and are now haters. What ever happened to the rest of them? Hummm .....
Mainly because the MX6/S7 and whatever the hell else they called it-chassi sucked compared to the boxxer chasssis or others that were available in the same time period. If you wanted an 8lb 6-7" fork, you got the stratos. If you didn't care about having the stiffest fork, you got the stratos. The wrap-around/pinching brake arch was pretty bad, compared to decent one-peice mg and al lowers that you'd get from the other manufacturers. To put it simply, the stratos had a pretty crappy chassi, and they never really changed it. No wonder they fell out of favor.It's all part of the "Bandwagon". Back then Stratos could do no wrong, true "Nobody" played a big part in there popularity & excellent customer service, however I thought they made a nice product. Funny how in around 2001-2004 the Boxxers had the issue with seal leakage as did Stratos, funny how everyone bashed on the small guy and supported the big company.
Way to add to the thread.RESURRECTION
Lets also face the Mike broke the law. I talked with him @ Big Bear in 2004, He's all hyped on the ID cartridge. I say "isn't that whole lot like the Brain shock/FX forks? What's Spec have to say?" He wouldn't give me very straight info, which isn't shocking when you are ripping someone off.Let's face it, the law is a weapon, the system is abused.
mike didn't brake any laws. He legitimately licsensed the ID system and patent rights from the original inventor and patent holder. Maybe he was reluctant to go into details because Spec was giving him crap, but if anyone is breaking the law, it might not be mike.Lets also face the Mike broke the law. I talked with him @ Big Bear in 2004, He's all hyped on the ID cartridge. I say "isn't that whole lot like the Brain shock/FX forks? What's Spec have to say?" He wouldn't give me very straight info, which isn't shocking when you are ripping someone off.
In short: Mike shat in the bed, now he has to sleep in it
Based on the info earlier in the thread, that seems to be about as wrong as you can be.Lets also face the Mike broke the law.
Nope:biggrin:Based on the info earlier in the thread, that seems to be about as wrong as you can be.
Have you any info to back this statement up?
that's cool and all, but I already added to the thread. I think two months ago, we also came to the conclusion that:Way to add to the thread.
Yeah it may be two months old, but I just spoke with Mike at Stratos friday.
Smack smack smacky smackity smack smack.Not as trick as the Stratos double chamber CNC'd bongs. Heat sinks on the bowl, couldn't spill water. That thing was bad ass.
They should have marketed that instead of lockout cartridges, might still be in business!
Stratos has been screwed up for a LONG time.
Basically it comes down to Mike, the owner, being a good engineer with bad business skills. They've lost many great employees that were making the whole thing actually work, to his stupidity. Randolph could really lay the smack down about the company.
Its kinda too bad. They had some great ideas and some industry firsts.
They had large air volume air shocks that didn't feel like poo.
They had the first lockout rear shock, even a remote for it.
The S8 was a bad ass fork. Plow anything over. Just too tall and heavy.
Actually, I didn't forget to 'mention' it -You forgot to mention one big problem that came in with Stratos: Catherine.
That woman was an outright bitch everytime I spoke with her. She had the welcoming tone of a sawblade, and I know personally it turned off quite a few people.
I've worked for Nazis before. It's awful. I just didn't want to open that particular can of worms.It was a constant battle. Somehow, Mike got Catharine to invest her own money into the business, thus bringing in a new partner. Although she was a CPA, she had very little experience with this kind of business.
Problems arose between people.
she was the stiletto that stabbed right through the heart of the sickly body and finally killed it.Ah, you are just far more diplomatic then me.
I have to admit, I would be so curious. It seemed they had a solid product, just needed better marketing and a bit of refinement.
Lmao. We were "remembering when" the other day... good laughs.Which goes to show you...if you wanted quality, you should have gotten a Hannebrink.
I remember he lost the brake pivot bolt out of his brake lever, and hadn't realized until that AM, Dia Compe SS-5s I belive, and he managed to find an old wood screw and the top of a ball-point click-it pen, and fixed it.But back to Stumpie - he could probably make anything fit anything. I'm glad he finally got a real job.