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the alternative personal transportation thread

jimmydean

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,250
13,375
Portland, OR
DaveW

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,221
2,745
The bunker at parliament
Read the story.... Down at the bottom it says $11k.

Don’t let other publications fool you with their straight euro to dollar price conversions that spit out a $13,500 figure. With more than the just exchange rates at factor here (VAT, volume, historical American market pricing, just to name a few), A&R’s patent pending international price calculator puts the Freeride MSRP at $11,000 with a variance of +/- $200.

That makes the KTM’s $1,000 more than the Quantya, and $3,500 more than the Zero X ($1,700 more than the Zero X Extreme). Is the KTM worth the extra coin? We won’t know until we get one in the A&R testing garage.
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jimmydean

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,250
13,375
Portland, OR
IH8Rice said:
woah. youre right, ive never really looked into KTM prices.
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You have to consider what you are paying for, though. KTM's come built. After market brakes, suspension, wheels, it's not your average Honda.

While I have never purchased a "new" moto, you honestly can't build a better bike for less than what the KTM runs on average. At least that's the case with the gassers.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/california-electric-motorcycle-rebate/

California residents can get $1500 more lopped off the price of a Zero S and Zero DS. Add in a 10% Federal tax credit and the net result is a Zero S that MSRPs at $10k going for $7.5k. Sweet.

The best part about the article has to be the photo, however:



Gov. Schwarzenegger said:
After getting aquanted with Zero Motorcycle’s product range, Gov. Schwarzenegger said that ”Zero electric motorcycles are very important technology and this is great for California because this is an ideal place to ride motorcycles.” He continued with, ”I love the financial side of these motorcycles because they cost less then one cent per mile to operate and you get a 10% federal tax credit plus a California rebate of $1,500. That equates to a 25 percent price reduction making these electric motorcycles affordable for anybody.”
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IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
SportMagics said:
Arnold is next generation biker!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/32UGD0fV45g&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/32UGD0fV45g&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760






Autoblog: Chevy Cruze Eco to get 40 mpg hwy mileage

Autoblog said:
The Chevrolet Cruze Eco is propelled by the new turbocharged 1.4-liter Ecotec inline four-cylinder. This engine, combined with a six-speed manual transmission, is not only the most powerful unit available, it's also expected to yield a hybrid-like 40 miles per gallon on the highway. In order to help achieve that lofty number, the Cruze Eco gets drag-reducing shutters that close off the lower grille at higher speeds. Also contributing to the car's elevated fuel efficiency are a deep front air dam and under-body panels. The 1.4 turbo is rated at 138 horsepower and a healthy 148 pound-feet of torque.
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Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760


1. TH!NK City BEV to be sold in New York City.

WHAT: Pioneering electric car company THINK will announce plans to bring the THINK City electric vehicle to customers in New York City. [...]

WHY: New York ranked third in THINK's EV-Ready Cities Index based on the great fit EV's have for city driving and the strength of the state and local governments support.

THINK City is a purpose-built, all-electric car designed for urban environments. It can travel at highway speed for more than 100 miles on a single charge with zero local emissions. THINK City is currently in production in Finland and sold in select European markets. The company recently announced plans to begin manufacturing the THINK City in Elkhart, Ind. beginning in early 2011.

Bringing the THINK City to New York will play a positive role in PlaNYC, the city's comprehensive sustainability plan that seeks to reduce the City's greenhouse gas emissions by 30 percent from 2005 level by 2030. The Think City, all electric vehicle provides excellent opportunities for both city fleets and private vehicles operating within the City's borders.
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2) TH!NK releases EV-Ready Cities Index

THINK developed the EV-Ready Cities Index to measure which markets are most likely to begin and benefit from the transition to electric vehicles, providing an objective comparison of the EV purchase and usage incentives as well as the market fit for EVs.

"We expect that the roll-out of EV's to the U.S. market will be quite focused in the early stages. Some cities are more likely to be early adopters of EV technology, and the EV-Ready Cities Index will be a helpful tool to guide and prioritize the development of those markets. It reflects the available government support, consumer acceptance, and the opportunity for EVs to provide the maximum benefits possible from electric drive," Canny said. "Since EVs are a unique solution for congested urban environments, we are taking a city-by-city approach rather than a national or state-by-state approach."

The THINK EV-Ready Cities Index takes into account purchase and usage incentives – such as HOV lane access and infrastructure support – for electric vehicles as well as market fit, which includes factors such as hybrid sales, traffic congestion, EPA non-attainment zone status (air quality), and potential lower-carbon energy sources for vehicle recharging. The index was compiled for THINK by ASG Renaissance, a market research and business services firm located in Dearborn, Mich.

The U.S. EV-ready index mirrors one THINK developed for targeting markets in Europe, which recognized Oslo, Copenhagen and Amsterdam as the top-three markets. The company plans to continue to monitor EV-ready factors and periodically update and release its index.

"Ideally, we would like the THINK City to be available throughout the U.S. next year, but in our early commercialization phase, it is important that we first establish a strong concentration of sales in key, highly attractive markets, which support early adoption of sustainable, zero emissions transport solutions," Canny said.
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Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760
Nissan Leaf pricing announced:

Nissan North America, Inc. (NNA) today announced U.S. pricing for the 2011 Nissan LEAF electric vehicle, which becomes available for purchase or lease at Nissan dealers in select markets in December and nationwide in 2011. Nissan will begin taking consumer reservations for the Nissan LEAF April 20.

Including the $7,500 federal tax credit for which the Nissan LEAF will be fully eligible, the consumer's after-tax net value of the vehicle will be $25,280. The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price *(MSRP) for the 2011 all-electric, zero-emission Nissan LEAF is $32,780, which includes three years of roadside assistance. Additionally, there is an array of state and local incentives that may further defray the costs and increase the benefits of owning and charging a Nissan LEAF – such as a $5,000 statewide tax rebate in California; a $5,000 tax credit in Georgia; a $1,500 tax credit in Oregon; and carpool-lane access in some states, including California.

As a result of aggressive pricing and the availability of the $7,500 federal tax credit whose benefit is immediately included, Nissan will be able to offer a monthly lease payment beginning at $349, not including state or local incentives, which could further reduce the net cost of the Nissan LEAF.

"Imagine the possibility of never needing to go to a gas station again. Or of paying less than $3 for 100 miles behind the wheel. Or of creating zero emissions while driving," said Brian Carolin, senior vice president, Sales and Marketing, NNA. "Nissan leads the industry by offering the first affordable, zero-emission vehicle for the mass market. Nissan LEAF truly is in a class by itself."

The vehicle at the SV trim level is well-equipped with a variety of standard features, including an advanced navigation system and Internet/smart phone connectivity to the vehicle, enabling pre-heat/pre-cool and charging control. Nissan LEAF is equipped with energy-efficient LED headlights and makes extensive use of recycled and recyclable materials, such as seat fabric, instrument panel materials, and front- and rear-bumper fascias. Other standard amenities include Bluetooth connectivity; Intelligent-key with push button start; Sirius/XM satellite radio capabilities and roadside assistance. Safety features include vehicle dynamic control (stability control), traction control and six airbags. The SL trim level, available for an additional $940 (MSRP), adds features including rearview monitor, solar panel spoiler, fog lights, and automatic headlights.

...

In tandem with the purchase process, Nissan will offer personal charging docks, which operate on a 220-volt supply, as well as their installation. Nissan is providing these home-charging stations, which will be built and installed by AeroVironment, as part of a one-stop-shop process that includes a home assessment.

* The average cost for the charging dock plus installation will be $2,200.
* Charging dock and installation are eligible for a 50 percent federal tax credit up to $2,000.
* Using current national electricity averages, Nissan LEAF will cost less than $3 to "fill up."
* Nissan LEAF also will be the sole vehicle available as part of The EV Project, which is led by EV infrastructure provider eTec, a division of ECOtality, and will provide free home-charging stations and installation for up to 4,700 Nissan LEAF owners in those markets.
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So $25k after the Federal tax credit, and up to $5k more off depending on one's state! Not bad, Nissan, not bad at all.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760
2011 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid

Non-derivative (but now very weird) styling that aids in achieving a 0.25 Cd. Novel technology including lithium-polymer batteries (!) and the ability to cruise on electricity alone at 62 mph. 37/39 mpg rating estimated, in US gallons, of course. Two sunroofs plus an all-singing-and-dancing dash a la the Fusion's. Not bad, Hyundai, not bad.

Unlike hybrid systems from Ford and Toyota, the Hyundai system does not use a continuously variable transmission with integrated electric motors and generators. Instead Hyundai is using its new six-speed automatic transmission with an electric motor that takes the place of the torque converter.

The motor generates 30 kilowatts (40.2 horsepower) and 151 pound-feet of torque and handles drive and regenerative braking duties. That's well short of the 106 hp of the Ford Fusion motor and the 141 hp of the Toyota Camry motor. Nevertheless, Hyundai claims the Sonata can operate in EV mode at up to 62 mph. We'd guess that actually means the Sonata can shut down the engine and cruise on electricity at high speeds but can't actually accelerate to that speed on battery power, but we're looking into it. Hyundai takes advantage of the motor's instant-on torque to make the top three gear ratios of the transmission longer for lower engine speeds when cruising.

As we suspected, Hyundai has re-calibrated the 2.4-liter direct injected inline-four so that it operates on an Atkinson cycle. The Atkinson cycle uses late closing of the intake valve to give a shorter effective compression stroke than the power stroke. The overall efficiency of the engine is improved at the expense of low end torque production. As with the gear ratios the extra torque available from the motor is used to mask the engine's reduced output. The total combined output of the engine and motor is now slightly better than the standard Sonata at 209 horsepower, beating all competing models.

The Sonata hybrid marks the first North American (the Elantra and Kia Forte hybrids have been on sale in Korea since mid-2009) hybrid application of lithium polymer batteries. These cells supplied by LG Chem are very similar to the cells that General Motors will be using in the Chevrolet Volt battery later this year. The 1.4 kilowatt-hour pack weighs just 95.9 pounds compared the 123.9 pound nickel metal hydride equivalent in the Camry hybrid.

Weight savings extend to the whole car as well. Because Hyundai engineered the new Sonata without the possibility of installing a V6 engine it was able to reduce the mass of the structure. The curb weight of the hybrid Sonata is just 3,457 pounds, some 263 pounds less than the Fusion, which is likely to give it a performance advantage over the Ford.
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Mazda coming out with mid-sized hybrid beating diesel drivetrain in US Mazda6 (and also earlier rumored for CX7 crossover):

Autoblog said:
If there's one thing we're clamoring for here in the U.S., it's more diesel engines in passenger cars. Mazda will soon be answering our cries, as it plans to launch its all-new SKY-D powertrain in its "next-generation mid-sized car" (read: Mazda6) sometime in 2012.

The big news about this engine is that it's expected to achieve up to 43 miles per gallon on the highway, trumping the current class-leader of fuel economy in the mid-size sedan department, the Ford Fusion Hybrid. This powerplant will be mated to a brand new six-speed automatic transmission, called SKY-Drive, and will not only meet Tier 2 Bin 5 regulations, but will meet North America's strict emissions standards.

In addition to the SKY-D diesel engine, Mazda has said that it plans to build a new SKY-G gasoline engine that when coupled to the SKY-Drive six-speed automatic will provide 15 percent better fuel economy than the its petrol poweplants currently in use. Hit the jump to read the full details in Mazda's press release:

NEW MAZDA SKY CONCEPT POWERTRAINS TO DELIVER DRIVING PLEASURE AND ENVIRONMENTAL PERFORMANCE FOR ALL

SKY-G and SKY-D engines significantly improve fuel economy and dynamic performance

Mazda is synonymous with powertrain innovation. And now, the company that has engineered the world's only mass produced rotary engine is at it once again. The Mazda SKY Concept is a development strategy behind a series of next-generation powertrains with global roll-out starting in 2011. The word "sky" reflects Mazda's desire to deliver driving pleasure while helping to ensure blue skies and clean air for future generations. To achieve this, Mazda engineers have adopted a "sky's the limit" approach, and are embracing unconventional thinking in their pursuit of ultimate powertrain efficiency.

"Improving fuel efficiency and reducing CO2 emissions is not just a goal at Mazda, it's part of our business plan; we will make vehicles that are safer for our environment," said Jim O'Sullivan, president and CEO, Mazda North American Operations. "We will increase our fuel economy globally by 30 percent by 2015 and offer affordable eco-friendly vehicles to all Mazda customers, not to just a limited segment of the market. The SKY Concept powertrains will play a big part in making this happen."

The all-new next-generation SKY Concept powertrains are the product of Mazda's ongoing Sustainable Zoom-Zoom strategy. These technologies are about a year away from launch, and are being developed using unique innovative Mazda engineering spirit. The SKY-G (gasoline-based) and SKY-D (diesel-based) concept engines will deliver the sporty driving experience that Mazda is known for, coupled to superior eco-friendliness. Fuel economy will improve 15 percent on the SKY-G and 20 percent on the SKY-D, with a simultaneous increase in torque.

Another key element of the SKY Concept is the all new SKY-Drive automatic transmission. SKY-Drive is a unique six-speed automatic transmission that offers driving feel comparable to a dual clutch transmission, while also improving fuel economy by five percent compared to Mazda's current automatic six-speed transmission.

These new eco-friendly products &#8211; combined with weight reductions of 100 kg (220 lbs.) on next-generation vehicles, improved aerodynamic design to reduce drag, and the introduction of electric devices like the fuel-saving stop/start system called i-stop (currently available in Japan and Europe) &#8211; will help Mazda meet its stated goal of improving the average fuel economy of its global line-up by 30 percent, with a drop in CO2 emissions of 23 percent (compared to 2008) by the year 2015. And because the combination of these developments improves the basic performance of all products in the Mazda line-up, it will make eco-friendliness available to all Mazda customers, not just a select few who buy a niche product.

Celebrating its 40th Anniversary in the United States in 2010, Mazda North American Operations is headquartered in Irvine, Calif. and oversees the sales, marketing, parts and customer service support of Mazda vehicles in the United States, Canada and Mexico through nearly 900 dealers. Operations in Canada are managed by Mazda Canada, Inc., located in Ontario; and in Mexico by Mazda Motor de Mexico in Mexico City.
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
IH8Rice said:
it is news. where in your article does it say that it is coming to the US? Mazda's recent release states its within a year of releasing the product


i think my title should be given to you :think:
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The title and in the article:

"If the decision is made to offer diesel power in the U.S., a Mazda official said it would be the next generation diesel (called Sky-D) which would be quieter, more powerful than the 2.2-liter unit and most likely would offer the company&#8217;s new dry twin-clutch automated gearbox instead of an automatic. The 6-speed manual would also likely be retained."

Other blogs like autoblog etc mentioned it a few days later with other details:

http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/03/19/mazda-considering-diesel-for-u-s-cx-7-crossover/
 
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IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
syadasti said:
The title and in the article:

"If the decision is made to offer diesel power in the U.S., a Mazda official said it would be the next generation diesel (called Sky-D) which would be quieter, more powerful than the 2.2-liter unit and most likely would offer the company’s new dry twin-clutch automated gearbox instead of an automatic. The 6-speed manual would also likely be retained."

Other blogs like autoblog etc mentioned it a few days later with other details:

http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/03/19/mazda-considering-diesel-for-u-s-cx-7-crossover/
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IF and CONSIDERING doesnt mean its happening.
 
valve bouncer

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Toshi said:
Awesome. Details? I am totally psyched to go this route once I have a house, say in 2013-2014 or so.
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About US$24,000 after all rebates. 24 panels, 15 south facing and 9 west facing. Took them one day to install. Basically you replace your electricity bill with a bill to the loan company so it's pretty much a no-brainer.
4.392 kW total producing 4,657kWh per year.
Good diagram of how it all works
 
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IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/b_49nCgb2oQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b_49nCgb2oQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qvFgADe-zG8&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qvFgADe-zG8&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760
Hot damn! Any Coloradoans (sp?) reading this?

ABG: Colorado tax credit makes electric motorcycles really cheap



If you happen to live in Colorado and have a hankering for a brand-new electric motorcycle, we have good news. The rest of us... well, we can take a moment to wish we lived in Colorado, at least in time to make our desired zero-emission two-wheeled purchase of choice.

The Colorado Alternative Fuel Vehicle Credit will apply a savings of up to $6,000 to your chosen electric motorcycle, to which you can add another 10 percent credit from the federal government. For those keeping track, that will put the final price of the Zero S or DS at just $4,107 (after a $4,888 tax credit in CO). That will net you a highway-capable machine that can go up to 50 miles per charge. Still too rich for your blood? How about a brand spankin' new Brammo Enertia for just $3,000?
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Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760
Aptera might not be dead after all&#8230; yet:

Autoblog: Aptera 2e moves forward, eyes set on X Prize



Aptera has lined up new business partners in what Wilbur referred to as the first round of funding, yet he asserts that the up-start is still not, "fully funded." However, they are not only competing in the Progressive Automotive X Prize (in fact the car in the pictures above is being crated up and shipped off to Detroit to compete for the X Prize while this is being typed) but have applied for $184 million in federal loans, enough money to fund Aptera for the next five years. Regardless of whether or not they get the loan, the plan is to go through two more rounds of fund raising. Once that happens the 2e is then eleven months from production. In other words, they wouldn't give us a firm date for production, but late 2011 isn't a bad guess.

&#8230;

New for the 2010 are roll down windows, larger doors, a lower sill, an opening hood to check fuel levels, five-mph bumpers and a revised suspension. Even with all these production-friendly changes, the coefficient of drag is still freakishly low &#8211; less than 0.15. To put that in perspective, a Prius's Cd is 0.25 (though a streamlined Tatra T77 is 0.215, and that was in 1934). We poked our snout into the interior and not only did it look "real," it also looked nice, with an iDrive-type controller and a medium-sized navigation screen and four HVAC vents. The trunk is pretty large, capable of holding four medium-sized bags and two sets of golf clubs. While still technically classified as a motorcycle, the Aptera 2e will pass all of the more than 700 car safety standards required by the NHTSA. A motorcycle only has to pass 38.

&#8230;

The two-seater weighs just 1,800 pounds (with two-thirds of the weight sitting up front, just like an Altima or Accord coupe), yet is motivated by an electric motor churning out 110 horsepower (82 kilowatt) and 232 pound-feet of torque, and like other EVs, all the grunt is available the moment you depress the accelerator.
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Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760
JohnE said:
I will personally track down and kill the first person who mentions a Segway...awww crap, was it me?
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My thoughts on the Segway i2 that was provided as part of the Segway tour of DC (through Capitol Segway--there are at least two competing outfits in town!):

- I'd like to go faster than 12.5 mph, but even that is pretty zippy when interacting with people and the like
- Lacking suspension means that dropping off curbs is about as fun as hucking to flat. In other words I do both on occasion but don't relish the experience. :D
- The first 5 minutes of acclimation are odd but then one's brain becomes very used to the feeling of gliding around on flat feet. Walking feels strange in comparison after being on it for a few hours as we were
- Even after using one it's still difficult to imagine how a normal person (ie, not a beat cop or mall security guard) would use one regularly in daily life
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760
The Progressive Insurance Automotive X-Prize has now kicked off officially, with a commencement ceremony held in Lansing, MI as a show of symbolism.

The official entrants list includes:

Complete list of Qualified Teams in the Progressive Insurance Automotive X PRIZE, broken down by class. (updated 4/23/2010)

Total # of Qualified Teams: 28
Total # of Vehicles: 36
Mainstream Class Entries: 15
Alternative Class Entries: 21

Total U.S. States Represented: 14 (19 U.S. teams; 26 U.S. vehicles)
U.S. States Represented: CA, CO, IL, IN, LA, MI, NC, NY, OH, PA, TX, VA, WA, WV
Total Countries Represented: 9 (9 international teams; 10 international vehicles)
Countries Represented: Canada, China, Finland, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Thailand, UK, USA
Total Primary Fuel Sources:
Gasoline 12
E85 4
Biodiesel 4
Battery Electric Vehicles 16
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Notable vehicles spotted at the opener by the Autoblog crew:


The Alias, from the notable vaporware company Zap, alongside the AMP Sky


Edison2 Very Light Car


Tango EV with some midwestern-looking dignitaries

The next steps for this competition are a preliminary "knockout" stage where the vehicles must demonstrate at least 67 MPGe (MPG equivalent), and a final competition where 100+ MPGe are required.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,363
7,760
I've posted about Matt's (recumpence) vehicles before, in particular his very tasty 40 mph EV recumbent trike. His latest vehicle takes the cake, however:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15634



Specs: about 30 kW peak. :eek: Tri-wheel drive, with two smaller motors for each of the front wheels and two larger, paired motors driving the back. RC airplane-style controllers. Lots of LiPo (12S x 40 Ah, so that's ~44V x 40 Ah or ~1.6 kWh), enough for ~28 mile range.

As with his previous projects I think they are great fabrication and technical exercises but I think that any real vehicle capable of traveling 50 mph needs suspension, lighting, and basically motorcycle-level running gear.
 
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