[Sandwich]

are you running the 07 link? I don't know if that changed between evolutions.

My GUESS is that if you run both the caps and the pin, you should be fine, since they kind of work together....but pearce might know better than I, they seem to list accurately what years their parts fit...

 

[Sonic Reducer]

I got my 05 sunday sodablasted and annod, results attached. cant recommend it highly enough.

holy crap that looks nice. how much did it cost? i went with the chemical dip because i didnt want the totally homogenous look and wanted more of a normal raw fabricated look. after seeing yours i think i would have gone that route.

 

[Unfit]

holy crap that looks nice. how much did it cost? i went with the chemical dip because i didnt want the totally homogenous look and wanted more of a normal raw fabricated look. after seeing yours i think i would have gone that route.

AUD$60 For soda blast and $90 for the ano.

Importantly with the ano, there are 2 types, matt and gloss ( shiny like hubs etc). the finished look is dependant on the state of the raw frame ( whether you polish it first).

I didnt want matt and I didnt want shiny, I wanted something in between. So I didnt polish the frame and then asked for gloss ano, which voila, turns out 'satin'. exactly what I wanted .

 

[S.K.C.]

Will these fit an 06 sunday?

http://www.pearcecycles.co.uk/product/953

http://www.pearcecycles.co.uk/product/1024

TK - I don't think the threaded hex bolts and stepped axle will work with a 2006 Sunday primarily due to the dw-link from that model year. If your dw-link is anodized red, it's an 06'.

The 2007 - 2009 parts listed above work together HOWEVER, the hex bolt cups represent the introduction of updated hardware for the 2007 model year where the hex bolt cups threaded DIRECTLY into the forward holes in the dw-link if I recall correctly. The 2005-2006 dw-link used smooth-jacket cups that fit into smooth bores in the dw-link along with a regular shock eyelet axle. These parts were not connected to the dw-link directly, but tightened via the small bolts on the ends of the shock axle compressing everything together.

If you want to use the above parts, I recommend purchasing the 07-09 dw-link replacement from Betd.com.

Hope this helps! (if I'm off on the dw-link/shock axle interface - please feel free to jump in!)

 

[TKCastle]

DW link is not red, it's grey. Just trying to help a friend out by bringing back to life a clapped out bike with a lag bolt and nut for a lower pivot/shock mount.

Bike is at the powder coater right now and Im helping him source the correct parts.

So my only solution is to by a newer red DW link and the parts that are on the link or can I find the proper link/mount for an 06?

Thanks a lot guys for all you help.

 

[Sandwich]

if you get a later/07-08 link, it should be black. you can still buy them piecemeal from betd.co.uk, i think.

Does his link have caps that screw into it, or is it the system SKC is describing? You'll probably want the later link anyways for the DHX capability.

 

[TKCastle]

There were no caps or the original pivot/shock mount piece. Just a large bolt and nut on the other side with large washers on either end. Hence the reason why I have no clue what the original piece even looks like. there was a 5th element on the bike BTW.

So new link and the 07-09 hardware then.

 

[S.K.C.]

Sandwich! Thanks for your input and help! Much appreciated! It's hard to think back through the years to remember this stuff. Thank God I still have my database on my computer!

OK - that's what I suspected. If the dw-link was grey and had a 5th Element on it, then it was definitely a 2005 model year Sunday. So yes, the new dw-link from Betd and the new hardware is what you need!

Iron Horse color coded the dw-links by model year:

Grey: 2005 / Progressive 5th Element
Red: 2006 / Fox DHX -no change from previous year other than color and "dw" logos-
Black: 2007 / Fox DHX - Change from previous year: first year of threaded hex cups
Black: 2008 / Fox DHX and RS Vivid - Change from previous year: deletion of central brace to accomodate the reservoir on RS Vivid
Black, Green?: 2009 / Fox DHX and RS Vivid -no change from previous year-

A red dw-link won't help if you want to use the hardware you posted, but the aftermarket dw-link that Betd makes IS compatible with that hardware. When ordering from Betd, just make sure you get the "2007 - 2009 dw-link". Red dw-links only came from the factory and had "dw-link" silkscreened in white lettering along the side. Unless someone has a pile of NOS (New Old Stock) red links laying around, there really isn't any way to get these.

The 2006 red link looks like this: (also posted on the Front Page of this thread)

The redesigned 2007 links look like this (first year of threaded hex cups):

These are the original factory links - not reproductions, replacements, or aftermarket.

 

[Sandwich]

SKC-
I'm just trying to help. I certainly don't have all or half the info, but I try and relay what I can...I find that once a manufacturer stops lending its support, the aftermarket user crowd has to step up to help each other. Sort of like the audi community...without them, I would have been screwed! Now that you're here we'll have more answers, but if I can share anything, I try.

Back OT, do you have any photos of the 07 vs. 08 links? I bought my Sunday frame used, but I was told it was an 08, and I think that's accurate....but my link looks like the one you posted, with both braces. I actually was under the impression that you had to remove that brace to run an RC4, not Vivid. Any input would be appreciated. My frame uses a DHX and I don't intend on changing that, but it would be good to know.

 

[TKCastle]

Thanks Brothers. Rep for all!

 

[S.K.C.]

SKC-
I'm just trying to help. I certainly don't have all or half the info, but I try and relay what I can...I find that once a manufacturer stops lending its support, the aftermarket user crowd has to step up to help each other. Sort of like the audi community...without them, I would have been screwed! Now that you're here we'll have more answers, but if I can share anything, I try.

Back OT, do you have any photos of the 07 vs. 08 links? I bought my Sunday frame used, but I was told it was an 08, and I think that's accurate....but my link looks like the one you posted, with both braces. I actually was under the impression that you had to remove that brace to run an RC4, not Vivid. Any input would be appreciated. My frame uses a DHX and I don't intend on changing that, but it would be good to know.

Hey man, I appreciate it! No problem at all! Sunday owners have always been a close group, so until further support is supplied from the outside the community is always here!

Unfortunately, as it stands right now, these are the only pics I have of the factory links, HOWEVER I think I know a place where I can get what I need...

I am 95% certain that an RC4 will not fit in a Sunday not because of linkage clearance, but because the actual FRAME will not accomodate the damn thing. I did a test fit a while back with an RC4 on one of my Sunday front ends and the reservoir was too large in diameter and rearward in position (larger bridge piece vs the DHX) to fit between the seat masts/uprights under 50% compression. This was the case on my Medium, so it's reasonable that the same would happen with a Large since the dimensions of this part of the frame do not have much variation from one size to another.

To get a Vivid to fit, one doesn't need to remove the entire brace, but grind it down a bit to get clearance. Total removal is possible and if I recall correctly, this will not effect the structural integrity of the link.

TK - Glad I could help!

 

[LukeD]

Hey man, I appreciate it! No problem at all! Sunday owners have always been a close group, so until further support is supplied from the outside the community is always here!

Unfortunately, as it stands right now, these are the only pics I have of the factory links, HOWEVER I think I know a place where I can get what I need...

I am 95% certain that an RC4 will not fit in a Sunday not because of linkage clearance, but because the actual FRAME will not accomodate the damn thing. I did a test fit a while back with an RC4 on one of my Sunday front ends and the reservoir was too large in diameter to fit between the seat masts/uprights under 50% compression. This was the case on my Medium, so it's reasonable that the same would happen with a Large since the dimensions of this part of the frame do not have much variation from one size to another.

To get a Vivid to fit, one doesn't need to remove the entire brace, but grind it down a bit to get clearance. Total removal is possible and if I recall correctly, this will not effect the structural integrity of the link.

TK - Glad I could help!

ummmmm you sure about that? I've had one on for 2 years. I had to mod the lower link, but it never rubs my main triangle. I've had it on an 05 front end and an 08 front end.

 

[S.K.C.]

Really?!

Hmmm - I stand corrected then. Maybe it was just my frame... waaaiit a sec - I tried putting that thing in my weird Sunday Factory with the funky geo... It had a TT that wasn't a Small but wasn't a Medium either... I'm guessing there were other inconsistencies with that frame as well... I'll try putting an RC4 in my old Elite front end tonight and see what the deal is. I know that frame is a genuine Medium since I got it from Go-Ride as part of the frame kit program.

 

[stumpjump]

I'd really like to know as Ill be switching from a small to a medium this season and I would love to throw an RC4 on instead of the DHX.

 

[LukeD]

kinda fuzzy pic, but here it is on an 08 front triangle

 

[Sandwich]

From what i've seen posted by others, you gotta grind the lower link...you lose the middle brace and part of the rear brace, and some from the sides....otherwise it fits. Think BOS link style. There might even be a photo a few pages back.

I plan on sticking with the DHX though...I figure if PUSH or AVY can make it sing, it'll be better than a stock RC4 for roughly the same price, and no grinding required.

 

[LukeD]

From what i've seen posted by others, you gotta grind the lower link...you lose the middle brace and part of the rear brace, and some from the sides....otherwise it fits. Think BOS link style. There might even be a photo a few pages back.

I plan on sticking with the DHX though...I figure if PUSH or AVY can make it sing, it'll be better than a stock RC4 for roughly the same price, and no grinding required.

that's exactly what i did

 

[stumpjump]

Been waiting for Craig at Avy to take the DHX mods off of preorder since August. He added a "coming soon" to it but Im impatient and want to get back no the saddle again.

 

[Sandwich]

Been waiting for Craig at Avy to take the DHX mods off of preorder since August. He added a "coming soon" to it but Im impatient and want to get back no the saddle again.

he's too busy doing dumb s*** for bullcrew....heaven forbid he actually make the mod people want....but that's why PUSH exists. I'm still uncomfortable letting $200 sit in his wallet while he considers whether he should build it....I could throw that money at PUSH and get it done now...

but I've got to finish the stripping process on my bike....been inhaling too much Bondo.

 

[Speed]

I'm still uncomfortable letting $200 sit in his wallet while he considers whether he should build it

Same here. He had another thread where he said he wasn't sure if he was going to do it since there wasn't a lot of interest, but I'm betting he'd get a lot of people off the fence if he'd make it official.

 

[Sandwich]

I can't see it being too difficult, considering he made hi/lo adjusters for PUSH for a little while, and he can retune/shim up a 5th element... anyways, I'd love to have his tune on my bike (rode his shock and fork for a while, loved it) and the additional hi/lo would be great.

 

[sundaydoug]

I tried putting that thing in my weird Sunday Factory with the funky geo... It had a TT that wasn't a Small but wasn't a Medium either... I'm guessing there were other inconsistencies with that frame as well..

Did the Factory frames have different geo than the others? I noticed that when I got my new '06 Factory front end that the top tube was a bit shorter (which is what I wanted) than that of my medium '08 Team, but the seat tube appeared to be the same size on both.

Thoughts?

 

[Sandwich]

As of last night, I'm bondo free!

just gotta finish stripping the leftover chunks of paint, then I can give it a quick polish and replace the bearings.

 

[sundaydoug]

As of last night, I'm bondo free!

just gotta finish stripping the leftover chunks of paint, then I can give it a quick polish and replace the bearings.

Put up some pics when it's done!

What did you use to get the paint out of the little nooks and crannies of the swingarm? It's tough to get in there with any kind of sandpaper. I'm thinking of trying with an exacto knife.

 

[Sandwich]

honestly, I used chemical stripper, and short of getting a deal or wanting the very best finish possible, I can't understand why anybody wouldn't. The paint literally bubbled up and fell off. I used standard rubber gloves and it worked fine...but the nitrile ones I tried dissolved. I did it outside in my back yard. The only reason mine isn't complete is because I ran out of juice. I'm going to try it again, get the inside of the bridge and the rear triangle, then sand it smooth, and see if I can get close to a polish finish without a buffer (i won't). The hardest part looks to be trying to polish or sand the bridge...so I think I'll just get the tubez shiny and leave the weird patina color. My buddy wants me to paint lugs on it (like an old road frame) but I think it would look ugly with the bridge.

 

[sundaydoug]

Yea, I've been using aresol chemical stripper that I bought from the local True Value. Maybe it's because I'm a noob with this, but it took me 2 cans just to get the paint off of my swingarm. It did come off pretty easily in spots, but there were places that even after 2 tries the paint didn't bubble off and I had to pretty much sand it down. All that's left in terms of paint are in the little nooks around the axle and up by where the link attaches.

I'm thinking that maybe because I did this outside on my patio and a combination of wind/freezing temperatures had some sort of effect. I sprayed it on, waited about 20 minutes, then wiped what would come off with a rag.

 

[Sandwich]

Yea, I've been using aresol chemical stripper that I bought from the local True Value. Maybe it's because I'm a noob with this, but it took me 2 cans just to get the paint off of my swingarm. It did come off pretty easily in spots, but there were places that even after 2 tries the paint didn't bubble off and I had to pretty much sand it down. All that's left in terms of paint are in the little nooks around the axle and up by where the link attaches.

I'm thinking that maybe because I did this outside on my patio and a combination of wind/freezing temperatures had some sort of effect. I sprayed it on, waited about 20 minutes, then wiped what would come off with a rag.

huh...that's the same shizz and method I used. Maybe you have to wait until summer/spring, since that's the only difference. Air was about 60-65 when I did mine, and it bubbles up then fell off. The bits that didn't fall I took off with some copper scrubby pad. I've only used one can so far, and all I have left is the dropout areas/bridge and a few spots on the tubes....I just ran out of strippeh before it was done.

I'm tempted to do mine in the basement, since it's warm and dry down there, but I don't know how fumey this stuff will be in an indoor environment. I can open the hatch to the basement, but I expect it'll still seep into the house.

this is the shizz i used: http://www.truevalue.com/product/Paint-Supplies/Paint-Thinners-Removers/Specialty-Solvents-Removers/18-oz-Paint-Stripper/pc/13/c/196/sc/1713/29733.uts?refineByCategoryId=1713

 

[S.K.C.]

Did the Factory frames have different geo than the others? I noticed that when I got my new '06 Factory front end that the top tube was a bit shorter (which is what I wanted) than that of my medium '08 Team, but the seat tube appeared to be the same size on both.

Thoughts?

Really? Did you measure Reach? This a much more accurate way to measure front center length.

I was talking with LukeD about this - there were some inconsistencies with frames within the same model year of the same make (Elite, Team) but it would be interesting to find out if Factory frames from 06' were smaller than their non-Factory (Elite, Team) counterparts.

 

[sundaydoug]

Really? Did you measure Reach? This a much more accurate way to measure front center length.

I was talking with LukeD about this - there were some inconsistencies with frames within the same model year of the same make (Elite, Team) but it would be interesting to find out if Factory frames from 06' were smaller than their non-Factory (Elite, Team) counterparts.

How is reach measured?

Here is a side by side pic of both triangles.

 

[Gary]

my 08 small has the exact same seattube (17") as a 08 medium. but a friend had a 05 and it had a shorter seattube (16"?) than mine, looking at the bikes side by side you could see it straight away his seat tower weld/gusset looked smaller/neater.

 

[SkullCrack]

How is reach measured?

http://www.sicklines.com/2008/12/18/reach-and-stack-a-good-idea/

 

[Dsunday]

Has anyone upgraded all their hardware/bolts?
I hate when bolt heads ring and you have trouble getting them off and Iron Horse do seem to come with crappy bolts (or user over tightening )

anyway i was looking at replacing the seatstay bolts with the likes of these tapered head M8 sockets
http://www.ti64.com/product_p/4724.htm

and then also all the M6 bolts just to keep them fresh.

What would the best material be to get? Steel,Alu or Ti??

 

[rewster]

aluminum if you want them to break. Ti if you want to break the bank. steel if you're normal.

 

[richgardiner]

Does anyone have a blank template of a sunday frame? looking to play around on paint with a few different colour options. Oh and is there any place that sells IH headtube badges? Thanks

 

[Sandwich]

Has anyone upgraded all their hardware/bolts?
I hate when bolt heads ring and you have trouble getting them off and Iron Horse do seem to come with crappy bolts (or user over tightening )

anyway i was looking at replacing the seatstay bolts with the likes of these tapered head M8 sockets
http://www.ti64.com/product_p/4724.htm

and then also all the M6 bolts just to keep them fresh.

What would the best material be to get? Steel,Alu or Ti??

I was just looking into this, and you can get pretty high grade steel bolts in metric varietal, like grade 10.1 or something like that, off mcmaster. You may be able to find higher grade chrome if you look hard, but I was lead to believe that the black zinc ones I found would be good enough.

I would not do ti. If you want to lose two grams and have to worry about losing a nearly non-replaceable part for two grams, I suggest you throw your bike out now to save you the trouble. I had so much trouble getting my steel bolts out that anything less than the highest grade steel in those locations is crazy, IMO.

 

[stumpjump]

Ive got an extra sunday frame sans linkage pieces and rockers. I am looking for anyone that has copied these parts or knows of anyone who would. I remember seeing a thread a while ago of someone that said they did it but wasn't sure of the reliability of the craftsmanship yet. Anyone got any leads?

Or does anyone have a trashed frame and would be intersted in selling the linkage pieces?

 

[S.K.C.]

Dsunday: If you need replacement hardware for your Sunday, Iron Horse used to go directly to McMaster Carr for all of its frame hardware needs:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#

Between the first and second gen (F7 Linkage) linkage there was a need to secure the upper shock mount to keep the bolts from loosening so IH went to McMaster, ordered up some steel shoulder bolts and viola': The Sunday "Big Bolt Kit".

I would highly suggest you use hardened steel for all suspension pivots - as has been previouly mentioned. Unless you are racing a WC and need to shave .01's of a second off your time, it's really not worth it to get Ti or Alu.

Rich: IH is the only real supplier of the production headbadges so if somone has a bunch stashed away that they want to part with the best place to look would be eBay or Craigslist.

Sicklines bought one of the proto SSO EVO Type 6 frames from dw and turned it into a project bike a few years back. Cool little rig - the guys brought it with them to the US Open back in 07' and I got the chance to mess around on it - a bit like a mini Sunday. Anyway they had a custom metal headbadge made for them by this shop and they did a fantastic job:

http://www.headbadges.com/index.html

...ask for Jen Green - she makes them by hand I believe.

Hope this helps!

 

[Dsunday]

Cheer the McMaster Carr place looks great.
I have an 09 Sunday so i dont think i need the "Big Bolt Kit" for the upper shock mount.
Just out of interest would the shouldered bolts not have threads on the end as opposed the existing bolt accepting another bolt ? Ie parts 2 and 4?

Think I'm going to go with high grade steel where possible.
The ones with a groove under the head accommodating a silicone o-ring look interesting.

Quick question actually.. If you don't use loctite or bearing retainer on a surface/bolt/interface do you grease?

 

[Sandwich]

I would use anti-seize compound instead of grease. Anti-seize should prevent it from doing just that, but it's worth a check every ride. I've never had any bolts back out, even the shock pin, which I did use grease previously on. I'd be scared of loctite on these small bolts, but maybe red or purple flavor (whatever is the weakest) would be appropriate.

 

[mtec5]

Anybody running a pushed DHX3 is it worth having it done with a service or shall i upgrade to a Vivid ?