This is what's wrong with The Industry™
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Shouldn't that be your bone spurs? Or do those need to be fake for that to work?
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Anyway, as someone who has dabbled in carbon bars, but has come around to Kidwoo's Theory of Not Wanting to Die, I don't think that carbon bars offer appreciable damping either. If anything, modem ones have gotten beefed up to the point that they're stiffer.
it's crazy, because unlike land, there is no "touchdown point". Because the runway is moving up and down. And pitching. And rolling. I think there some great scenes in Top Gun of this. In fact, I think one guy came up short. As in too low when he shoulda been high. As in dead.
I got a little of that feel coming in from kite sailing. even then, the rope is guiding you in, but the platform is still bobbing around.
Think of landing a jump with the bumps moving around
The was a euro mag carbon bar test that rated ( a version) of Syntace carbon much stronger than anything they tested, including aluminum.Woo
What do you use for bars?
I am on Syntace carbon at the moment.
I really like carbon due to feel, I have nerve damage in my right hand, and the vibration absorption is very nice; especially the Syntace, which are quite a bit better than the Havoc carbon I have on the trailbike. Have thought about the Spank Virbracores....as I do have concerns with breakage. As I get older (54) and slower I'm no longer very smooth, but am still a Clydesdale so am concerned about surprise unintended dental work.
Thoughts?
for what that's worth.
But it was VELCRO!!!!
All those sharp little hooks ripping the crap outta your resin sure won't help your cause.
I bet you exposed it to the sun too?
Will people never learn....
fuck. I didn't even THINK of the hooks!All those sharp little hooks ripping the crap outta your resin sure won't help your cause.
I bet you exposed it to the sun too?
Will people never learn....
But I've ridden it below freezing so I'm pretty sure it's cryo treated.
If you are talking about BIKE then yes, Syntace bars always win there. Could that have something to do with the fact that they use Syntace's test machines and also their test protocol?
But what scares the sh!t out of me reading their tests is the variation between the 3 samples they test. Sounds like most manufacturers don't have full control over their carbon production to reliably produce a handlebar. Most manufacturers are affected from what it looks like. Once they had one of those superlight Schmolke bars on test, one sample basically was indestructible, the second one still very good and the third one would have broken within a year of use in a real world scenario.
I wasn't aware of any collusion (sound familiar?), but have no knowledge to deny it either.If you are talking about BIKE then yes, Syntace bars always win there. Could that have something to do with the fact that they use Syntace's test machines and also their test protocol?
But what scares the sh!t out of me reading their tests is the variation between the 3 samples they test. Sounds like most manufacturers don't have full control over their carbon production to reliably produce a handlebar. Most manufacturers are affected from what it looks like. Once they had one of those superlight Schmolke bars on test, one sample basically was indestructible, the second one still very good and the third one would have broken within a year of use in a real world scenario.
bUT, assuming Syntace actually use a logical test procedure and all bars are tested the same....I think still relevant and maybe hard to cheat.
I don't know who came up with the EN frame standard, but I still have to pass it.
The inconsistency, or lack of knowledge thereof, is a concern. I have seen pics posted (here) of serious wall thickness/concentricity issues, but from unknown brands. Does Syntace have those problems? I don't know.
The fact that a superlight bar showed inconsistency doesn't really bother me. If you are of suitable weight (120-150 lbs) and don't abuse it, it will last forever. I personally don't use superlight parts, being heavier, older and more conservative, but I do run RaceFace 6C carbon bars on my personal rig. They also tested very high on Bike's test and that influenced my decision.
I also run my perches loose enough to rotate when crashing (old moto habit) and have a tendency to change bars/bikes often.
The velcro hooks are a concern
Going full off topic here, but I didn't notice how much my 31.8mm RF Atlas flexed till I switched to an aluminum catalog brand 35mm bar. I did back to back rides on a trail I like a lot for a whole afternoon as I was beta testing the catalog bar for a local components brand.
In the end I settled down for the added (perceived) control I found on the 35mm one, partially because landing a 5 ft drop on the Atlas felt like grabbing an albatross who was trying to land on a cliff after doing it on the 35mm one.
In the end I settled down for the added (perceived) control I found on the 35mm one, partially because landing a 5 ft drop on the Atlas felt like grabbing an albatross who was trying to land on a cliff after doing it on the 35mm one.
Rim manufacturers can't produce an accurate ERD. That's my latest issue. Spank Spike Race 33's aren't even close to the ERD they have marked on their paper, on the RIM, and on their website (all say 553.3). That was off by almost 8mm.
Yet, the DT Swiss rims that I've built up in the past 4 years have been right on. Not to mention that hub manufacturers are accurate. So why can't rim mfgrs be consistent?
Yet, the DT Swiss rims that I've built up in the past 4 years have been right on. Not to mention that hub manufacturers are accurate. So why can't rim mfgrs be consistent?
Crazy hey. I've got 31.8 bars on the Scout and I've had no problems with bar flex (perceived or otherwise) for the last few years. The Kona came with a 35mm bar stem combo, and after riding it for a few months when i get on the Scout it feels noodly and vague. blergh.
I am not saying they are cheating, however it is easier to pass a test if the product is designed to pass this specific test. The Syntace test makes sense IMO, simulating both normal use, hard hits and occasional overloading. So I don't deny that the Syntace bars are really good, the discussion is more how much the test protocol actually reflects the real world. Sometimes it sounds like part XY is total unreliable from their test, but then you never hear about an unusual high amount of problems in the real world.
From memory I think they don't. Bars from most manufacturers seem to have become more reliable over the years. However, I remember that some of the bigger brands seem to have more and more problems. Back in the day e.g. the Easton Monkey Lite DH Carbon bar tested really well with minimal variation between samples, newer Easton stuff seems to have a larger variation.
Full disclosure: I went from a 785mm Atlas AM with the smallest height to a full one inch tall unnamed 35mm bar, in the same width. Weight wise they both scored about the same on my scale. I suspect the flatter profile of the RF made it feel noodlier than its 35mm rival.
Who started with 35mm bars, by the way?
Who was first for mtb? 
I found Easton in 2012 with some quick Google kungfu
https://m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Introducing-Eastons-35mm-Handlebar-and-Stem-Standard,3593/Slideshow,0/bturman,109
I found Easton in 2012 with some quick Google kungfu
https://m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Introducing-Eastons-35mm-Handlebar-and-Stem-Standard,3593/Slideshow,0/bturman,109
I was expecting an history lesson from you, how disappointing!
6 years since it started and all the other 10 different sizes aren't eradicated yet...
How bizarre ?
I agree that evaluating products using a test protocol from the manufacturer of one of them make it seems like they lack independence but are you positive the test was developed by Syntace? I know Zedler also offer a multi-load test protocol.
However, I think it's very nice that they make this kind of information public, it is quite rare that engineering information go past the editorial and marketing filters.
Also even if independence questions are raised, I think the syntace protocol is MUCH better than ISO or EN protocols. These test are the same for all "mountain bike" components and frame (xc or dh) and some are just scary and don't compare at all to agressive riding. In fact, one could design a bike that comply to EN and ISO tests and still have a very high failure rate.
Most of these tests specify too low force amplitude beside pedaling test maybe (only test where road can be compared to MTB) but the worst is that some riding occurrence just aren't taken into account like bump and cornering forces so most factories and manufacturers had to develop alternative tests.
One other important thing that is not considered with EN and ISO is material damage history, in real riding condition, loading is very random and diverse in direction and amplitude compared to sequential or unique fatigue test per sample. That has an impact on fatigue life and not adequately accounting for it in design and testing means you need higher safety factors to have durable design because testing does not relate well to real life riding.
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Here's the real problem with the Industry. Not enough people racing and having fun
Tantrum Cycles will be at Sea Otter, Monterrey, CA in April.
This is my "industry challenge" to all the people that make bikes, have bikes with their name on, make bike products, bike equipment, write about bikes, sell bikes, work on bikes and/or otherwise make their living off bikes.
Race Me.
2 years ago, I entered the Enduro for Tantrum Cycles competition debut (and my return after 15 yrs since my last DH race), as the oldest guy in my class. I beat some people and got beat by more people. I had fun, got tired. I raced MY OWN bike.This year, I entered as possibly the oldest rider in the entire field of 600.
Most of you never get to ride or race at these events. I know, I know, if you're there, you're setting up a booth, etc. Working. for a few bucks. And the privilege of being in the industry. Because you like bikes that much. And it sucks that all my friends in the industry are stuck in their booths.
C'mon. I've had my own, sometimes self manned booth at Sea Otter for years in the Brake Therapy/Shock Therapy days. And at the NORBA Nationals.
And I always raced. Not just because I make stuff that racers use and I need to test it to the best of my ability. because it's fun. I'm a racer. I like to go fast. It's fun.
Race me.
Easy for me to say, I have nothing to lose, you might get beat by an old man. Show me a wheel. Throw me an elbow. Make fun of my bike. Whatever.
I'll buy a beer for everyone that beats me and 2 beers for everyone I beat.
Who's in??
Tantrum Cycles will be at Sea Otter, Monterrey, CA in April.
This is my "industry challenge" to all the people that make bikes, have bikes with their name on, make bike products, bike equipment, write about bikes, sell bikes, work on bikes and/or otherwise make their living off bikes.
Race Me.
2 years ago, I entered the Enduro for Tantrum Cycles competition debut (and my return after 15 yrs since my last DH race), as the oldest guy in my class. I beat some people and got beat by more people. I had fun, got tired. I raced MY OWN bike.This year, I entered as possibly the oldest rider in the entire field of 600.
Most of you never get to ride or race at these events. I know, I know, if you're there, you're setting up a booth, etc. Working. for a few bucks. And the privilege of being in the industry. Because you like bikes that much. And it sucks that all my friends in the industry are stuck in their booths.
C'mon. I've had my own, sometimes self manned booth at Sea Otter for years in the Brake Therapy/Shock Therapy days. And at the NORBA Nationals.
And I always raced. Not just because I make stuff that racers use and I need to test it to the best of my ability. because it's fun. I'm a racer. I like to go fast. It's fun.
Race me.
Easy for me to say, I have nothing to lose, you might get beat by an old man. Show me a wheel. Throw me an elbow. Make fun of my bike. Whatever.
I'll buy a beer for everyone that beats me and 2 beers for everyone I beat.
Who's in??
XC once was not fun.
24 hour races with a not too crazy team was always fun.
The Vermont 50 several times was fun in a somewhat twisted way...
I don't know why I am afflicted with that particular illness. As long as I can remember. Bikes, mx, cars. These days I'm mostly racing myself and father time.......
Well - I don't like people, so that probably accounts for the majority of it...You are clearly missing the link between racing and fun.
Some races the "fun" part is when its finished and you can crack a beer and ask yourself WTF you were thinking entering.
I started off racing DH, did that for ~20 years. Did a 12 hour XC in a team of 4 (compulsory beers before the final lap). Got into doing short course XC (horrible), some enduros (yay for DH on compromised bikes, without safety gear whilst exhausted), a couple of marathon XC events (painful and machoistic) and last year even did a cyclocross event on a MTB with slicks (mental).
Out of all of those the best fun events were the ones with mates where none of us had a serious chance of podiuming, trying to just beat your mates (or take them out in the corners). I'm actually pretty sure now that the races that turn into an utter shitshow because of weather, mechanicals or lack of organisation ended up being the most fun. The 'serious' races where I gave a shit about results, I always ended up going home worried too much about mistakes I made or what could have been.
Racing should always be about beating your friends or - better yet, mocking them when their dubious component choices fail them.
Yeah - I just skip the whole "race" part of it and ride down and crack a beer. I know people like to race... I'm OK with other people racing.
I'm not much into besting anyone other than myself. I utterly agree with cracking a beer after while asking why the fuck I ever started.
ride bikes fast because it stimulates teh adrenalines, etc. fuck paying money to do so. fuck wasting time for “practice runs,” “seeding runs,” etc. that money and time could have been better spent riding bikes, buying beer, drinking beer. that being said, teh monkey sez:
You have a way with words... you are the Shakespeare of Ridemonkey.ride bikes fast because it stimulates teh adrenalines, etc. fuck paying money to do so. fuck wasting time for “practice runs,” “seeding runs,” etc. that money and time could have been better spent riding bikes, buying beer, drinking beer. that being said, teh monkey sez:
Funny thing is, that's pretty much required to be competitive. Now that I'm older and slow, I like people a little more.Well - I don't like people, so that probably accounts for the majority of it...
but I still wouldn't hesitate making a bonzai pass on the inside with no regard for life or limb. Ok, maybe hesitate a little, but I'd THINK about it.