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slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,409
5,147
Ottawa, Canada
Mrs. Stoney needs to read my thread:

http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/exiting-the-rat-race.271154/

Is Thing 2 really that big of a budget buster? For us we already had the larger vehicle, knew we were ending up with a larger house (although what we got at ~3250 sq ft is not extravagant, imo), and the extra child care costs are really just lost in the noise of larger debts to service.

For me what helped the most was to set up a long term costs spreadsheet. What's fixed and long term, what's going to disappear or appear in the next few years, and what is the projected net worth trajectory given these planned expenses against expected income. This was how I convinced myself that I could afford this house. Numbers, I tell ya, magic like magnets.
Not hatin', just statin'... but I don't know what world you guys are living in that an over 3000 sq. ft. home is "not extravagant". That's almost 3x the size of my home. Now, I know living in 1300 sq ft downtown is not for everyone, but I don't know what I would do with three of my homes. FWIW, I usually agree with the rest of what Toshi says.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,713
7,405
Colorado
It's always new bike time, also - from what I have read of your postings on teh monkey, your life style seems extravagant to me. Just sayin' not judging.
For most people, yes. We are very high up the economic food chain, that I do not deny. We're having discussions about buying a Q7 or a 5+ bedroom house in a really nice area or having another kid that will go to provate shcool through kindergarten at $1500/m. Within our income level though, we are not very extravagant. I am a fan of the coupon and preferably buy things used or severely discounted. I buy discounted gift cards to buy stuff. A lot of what we do/can do is based on being cheap where we can.

I can go less extravagant, but there is a certain lifestyle we enjoy. Maintaining said lifestyle while saving is my beef.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,553
7,877
Not hatin', just statin'... but I don't know what world you guys are living in that an over 3000 sq. ft. home is "not extravagant". That's almost 3x the size of my home. Now, I know living in 1300 sq ft downtown is not for everyone, but I don't know what I would do with three of my homes. FWIW, I usually agree with the rest of what Toshi says.
Fair enough. Shows that I've succumbed to lifestyle creep. :)

It's 4 bedrooms and 3.5 baths, with one of those bedrooms basically devoted to visiting parents (who live in Seattle and on the Oregon coast so aren't just popping in for the afternoon). It only doesn't seem extravagant because it's a mid-sized and mid-priced home for my particular neighborhood, although on any absolute metric you're absolutely correct.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,264
24,759
media blackout
For most people, yes. We are very high up the economic food chain, that I do not deny. We're having discussions about buying a Q7 or a 5+ bedroom house in a really nice area or having another kid that will go to provate shcool through kindergarten at $1500/m. Within our income level though, we are not very extravagant. I am a fan of the coupon and preferably buy things used or severely discounted. I buy discounted gift cards to buy stuff. A lot of what we do/can do is based on being cheap where we can.

I can go less extravagant, but there is a certain lifestyle we enjoy. Maintaining said lifestyle while saving is my beef.
i think it's time we revised stoney's custom title. he's at least upper middle, if not higher.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,553
7,877
i think it's time we revised stoney's custom title. he's at least upper middle, if not higher.
Only rentiers are upper class, IMO. Those of us who still have to work but are making well above the median are upper middle class.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,713
7,405
Colorado
I'm all for a rewarding lifestyle but private pre-school seems over the top for daycare, couldn't you get a live in nanny for that kind of change?
It's a choice of daycare or school. Daycare is going to save maybe $400/month. She's not even 4 and is doing arithmetic (not 1+, but mixed single digit), starting Spanish, starting to read and write, etc. The kids she was in daycare with up until 2.5 are older and not that far along. I will pay for the difference if I can, which I can. Same logic for Toshi, I believe.

She'll be going to public kindergarten for sure, but until then, it's private preschool and pre-K. Sure as hell not putting her into a church daycare, which are the only affordable option locally that isn't daycare.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
Only rentiers are upper class, IMO. Those of us who still have to work but are making well above the median are upper middle class.
According to a 2014 Wikipedia (for what that's worth) article those earning in excess of $100K are in the top 5%, I'm in year 8 of that bracket and in no way feel upper middle class, we are a single income household though.

Also: with no kids and no mortgage we only have 2 deductions, it seems like we pay a lot in federal and state taxes. Maxing out the 401K is the only way we can avoid paying an insane rate. Now that I am 50 I can defer tax on an additional 6K. I want a dentist bike instead.
 
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Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,474
17,018
Riding the baggage carousel.
*sigh*
Spring time chores have revealed a leak in the sprinkler system. I believe one of the valves must have cracked during the winter, due to the large quantity of water inside the box. Also explains the sudden increase in our water usage. :think: The other thing that's clearly sprung a leak is the fork seals on the ///Motorcycle.

You underestimate how decrepit we are all going to be at 55, much less 62. That's an important lesson I've learned in my 40's. :rant:
40's? Fuck. I'm 37 and it's becoming awfully apparent that things are already falling apart. Imma be right up shit creek by my mid 40's at this rate. I need a job that's going to let me back into the bong shed if this keeps up.

Fuck, dude. Riding with cars sucks. Almost NOBODY is paying attention. And fewer people every day... it's fucking scary - even in my car.
Also this. Been thinking a lot lately about maybe selling the beemer. Potential cost/benefit ratio seems to be slipping a lot towards the "cost" side of the equation lately.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,713
7,405
Colorado
40's? Fuck. I'm 37 and it's becoming awfully apparent that things are already falling apart. Imma be right up shit creek by my mid 40's at this rate. I need a job that's going to let me back into the bong shed if this keeps up.
You are the outlier of broken though. Technically, aren't you supposed to be dead?
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,361
7,904
Transylvania 90210
*sigh*
Spring time chores have revealed a leak in the sprinkler system. I believe one of the valves must have cracked during the winter, due to the large quantity of water inside the box. Also explains the sudden increase in our water usage. :think: The other thing that's clearly sprung a leak is the fork seals on the ///Motorcycle.



40's? Fuck. I'm 37 and it's becoming awfully apparent that things are already falling apart. Imma be right up shit creek by my mid 40's at this rate. I need a job that's going to let me back into the bong shed if this keeps up.



Also this. Been thinking a lot lately about maybe selling the beemer. Potential cost/benefit ratio seems to be slipping a lot towards the "cost" side of the equation lately.
Since 40, every quarter is a trip to a specialist. Mouth hole. Butt hole. Skin removal. It's all broken. I can't imagine these never damage spasms in 10 years if I don't get them sorted out.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
66,006
12,921
In a van.... down by the river
Not hatin', just statin'... but I don't know what world you guys are living in that an over 3000 sq. ft. home is "not extravagant". That's almost 3x the size of my home. Now, I know living in 1300 sq ft downtown is not for everyone, but I don't know what I would do with three of my homes. FWIW, I usually agree with the rest of what Toshi says.
That's the 1%'er world, man. We have a 2000 sq ft house (for 5 people) and I STILL think it's fucking extravagant. That said... at this point I don't want to be an CLOSE to those goddam rugrats so we'll stick with it until the kids are gone. Which is only 7 more years. :brows:
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,264
24,759
media blackout
weird bathroom encounter. i go in the stall, one next to it is occupied. as i'm sitting down, i noticed movement of my neighbor below the wall. for some reason his pants are all the way around his ankles. and he was turning his company ID over (most people wear their ID's on a retractable lanyard thing off a belt loop) so i couldn't see who he was from his ID? like it's some sort of secret that he was pooping. bizarro. part of me was tempted to call him out on it.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,361
7,904
Transylvania 90210
weird bathroom encounter. i go in the stall, one next to it is occupied. as i'm sitting down, i noticed movement of my neighbor below the wall. for some reason his pants are all the way around his ankles. and he was turning his company ID over (most people wear their ID's on a retractable lanyard thing off a belt loop) so i couldn't see who he was from his ID? like it's some sort of secret that he was pooping. bizarro. part of me was tempted to call him out on it.

No toe tap, no care.
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
weird bathroom encounter. i go in the stall, one next to it is occupied. as i'm sitting down, i noticed movement of my neighbor below the wall. for some reason his pants are all the way around his ankles. and he was turning his company ID over (most people wear their ID's on a retractable lanyard thing off a belt loop) so i couldn't see who he was from his ID? like it's some sort of secret that he was pooping. bizarro. part of me was tempted to call him out on it.
I actually do this. ID/keys on a retractable lanyard on my belt; stick them in my pocket when pooping. Mostly so they don't teabag any errant piss/poop that made it to the floor, but as an added benefit no one knows it was me that caused the entire men's room to smell like the inside of dead hooker's snatch in the middle of July.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,474
17,018
Riding the baggage carousel.
Along the lines of teh money talk, I've actually been thinking along the lines of perhaps teh wife and I are being a tad too conservative. We have a similar money philosophy, which makes things pretty easy, and my accident proved to both of us how important a good savings account was, and made us both pretty paranoid about such things for the future. Lately though, I have been wondering if perhaps we shouldn't loosen up a bit. I've felt like we've done a pretty good job of finding the "balance" between saving/not being dumb and "living in the now", but I feel a little bit like we need some more "now". Even after picking up a car payment, were still putting money away into savings, still paying 150% a month of the principal on the house, and contributing to 401k's (16%). If we quit paying the extra on the house, were still done with the mortgage no later than 10/26. IIRC our current model pays of the mortgage 6ish years from now. My daughter would be 14/15, and I'd be 43 or 44 depending on what month we close it up if we continue the extra on principal.

MOAR living now, or get the debt over early? I need a legit @stoney consultation.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,264
24,759
media blackout
I actually do this. ID/keys on a retractable lanyard on my belt; stick them in my pocket when pooping. Mostly so they don't teabag any errant piss/poop that made it to the floor, but as an added benefit no one knows it was me that caused the entire men's room to smell like the inside of dead hooker's snatch in the middle of July.
have some pride in your poop. and don't pull your pants down so far that they're at risk of touching the floor. :bonk:
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
Along the lines of teh money talk, I've actually been thinking along the lines of perhaps teh wife and I are being a tad too conservative. We have a similar money philosophy, which makes things pretty easy, and my accident proved to both of us how important a good savings account was, and made us both pretty paranoid about such things for the future. Lately though, I have been wondering if perhaps we shouldn't loosen up a bit. I've felt like we've done a pretty good job of finding the "balance" between saving/not being dumb and "living in the now", but I feel a little bit like we need some more "now". Even after picking up a car payment, were still putting money away into savings, still paying 150% a month of the principal on the house, and contributing to 401k's (16%). If we quit paying the extra on the house, were still done with the mortgage no later than 10/26. IIRC our current model pays of the mortgage 6ish years from now. My daughter would be 14/15, and I'd be 43 or 44 depending on what month we close it up if we continue the extra on principal.

MOAR living now, or get the debt over early? I need a legit @stoney consultation.
While I am no stoney... paying your mortgage off at 43 should allow you to increase your fun spending and think about cutting a few years off your work life. Mortgage interest is the suck.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
66,006
12,921
In a van.... down by the river
While I am no stoney... paying your mortgage off at 43 should allow you to increase your fun spending and think about cutting a few years off your work life. Mortgage interest is the suck.
It's not so much the interest as the cashflow. I'm shooting for being done with my current mortgage when the last kid leaves the house. Although the money is SOOO cheap on the mortgage I'll probably just hold off until we ditch the pad. Although renting might be attractive at that point in time...
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
It's not so much the interest as the cashflow. I'm shooting for being done with my current mortgage when the last kid leaves the house. Although the money is SOOO cheap on the mortgage I'll probably just hold off until we ditch the pad. Although renting might be attractive at that point in time...
We currently live in an old retail building we bought in the down town area of Great Falls... the original structure was built in 1927 and is 50'x75', there is an addition with 2 bathrooms, laundry and kitchen - all very basic. Total cost of operation is around $6,500 a year including property tax, insurance and water/sewer/garbage/gas/electricity... it's some cheap ass living. :)
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
66,006
12,921
In a van.... down by the river
We currently live in an old retail building we bought in the down town area of Great Falls... the original structure was built in 1927 and is 50'x75', there is an addition with 2 bathrooms, laundry and kitchen - all very basic. Total cost of operation is around $6,500 a year including property tax, insurance and water/sewer/garbage/gas/electricity... it's some cheap ass living. :)
:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,713
7,405
Colorado
Along the lines of teh money talk, I've actually been thinking along the lines of perhaps teh wife and I are being a tad too conservative. We have a similar money philosophy, which makes things pretty easy, and my accident proved to both of us how important a good savings account was, and made us both pretty paranoid about such things for the future. Lately though, I have been wondering if perhaps we shouldn't loosen up a bit. I've felt like we've done a pretty good job of finding the "balance" between saving/not being dumb and "living in the now", but I feel a little bit like we need some more "now". Even after picking up a car payment, were still putting money away into savings, still paying 150% a month of the principal on the house, and contributing to 401k's (16%). If we quit paying the extra on the house, were still done with the mortgage no later than 10/26. IIRC our current model pays of the mortgage 6ish years from now. My daughter would be 14/15, and I'd be 43 or 44 depending on what month we close it up if we continue the extra on principal.

MOAR living now, or get the debt over early? I need a legit @stoney consultation.
It all depends on the rate, which iirc is stupid low from when you refinanced. Depending on your rate, you're probably better off putting the extra into your retirement accounts. RoR tends to be higher long term and you get the tax deduction now. Your specific details will determine everything though. A 16% savings rate is great though, so props there.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,786
19,868
Canaderp
View attachment 122047

Riding bikes with the nephews in the sticks.
I don't see a single stick or living thing out there haha.

Lots of stuff to read up in here.

This week has been crazy. I haven't been to my office in 3 days. I'm not even sure if I took a dump today. Some of the projects that are coming up at work are going to be very intense. Need to move all of our data/VMs to new NetApps, domain migration etc etc. I keep getting calls about taking training classes, but I tell them to call back in July..thats how tight on time we are.

On the ///Car note, Bilstein rejected the warranty claim on my first strut. Their diagnosis is that I bottomed it out hard enough to push the retaining collar on the lower half of the strut down into the strut body. I argued a tiny bit about that, but was just too frustrated to put any effort into it. That first strut was showing signs of something going wrong for a while. We'll see what they say when they get the second one. RCE called my as well, but sadly I didn't get to speak to them before they closed. I'm hoping they at the very least offer some sort of strut at cost.
 
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I don't see a single stick or living thing out there haha.

Lots of stuff to read up in here.

This week has been crazy. I haven't been to my office in 3 days. I'm not even sure if I took a dump today. Some of the projects that are coming up at work are going to be very intense. Need to move all of our data/VMs to new NetApps, domain migration etc etc. I keep getting calls about taking training classes, but I tell them to call back in July..thats how tight on time we are.
I don't miss that shit one bit.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,764
13,147
Cackalacka du Nord
half way thru 15 yrs @ 2.75% ftw.

Like I said - it's a balance. Sounds like you two will balance each other fairly well.

My wife & I? We're on the same page. Get rid of the kids and the mortgage, downsize to somewhere nice, and enjoy things. If that involves me working in a ski/bike shop, all the better. :)
/\ this

Got hit by a car this morning.

I'm fine. Cheap bar bike took a hit though.
glad you're ok. worst/funniest hit i ever took was crossing intersection on skateboard, hearse runs a red, i get hit and roll up on its hood.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,553
7,877
Along the lines of teh money talk, I've actually been thinking along the lines of perhaps teh wife and I are being a tad too conservative. We have a similar money philosophy, which makes things pretty easy, and my accident proved to both of us how important a good savings account was, and made us both pretty paranoid about such things for the future. Lately though, I have been wondering if perhaps we shouldn't loosen up a bit. I've felt like we've done a pretty good job of finding the "balance" between saving/not being dumb and "living in the now", but I feel a little bit like we need some more "now". Even after picking up a car payment, were still putting money away into savings, still paying 150% a month of the principal on the house, and contributing to 401k's (16%). If we quit paying the extra on the house, were still done with the mortgage no later than 10/26. IIRC our current model pays of the mortgage 6ish years from now. My daughter would be 14/15, and I'd be 43 or 44 depending on what month we close it up if we continue the extra on principal.

MOAR living now, or get the debt over early? I need a legit @stoney consultation.
What'd you buy to improve your life? More travel yet? Less overtime? A Model 3? :D
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,295
10,429
I have no idea where I am
Said goodbye to my friend with brain cancer today. He leaves tomorrow for an assisted living facility in PA, where he will be closer to his parents. It was a rough day for him as he had lots of visitors. One of the nicest people I have ever had the privilege of knowing.

And as always, Fuck You Cancer !