[toodles]

Like a couple of brews is going to affect my ability to operate some allen keys and spanners...

 

[Udi]

So I got some pics...

Mine is an 07 WC, and is definitely a little different from cave dweller's pictures (the female rod in pic 3 and 4 is alloy instead of plastic). Maybe that was an early prototype or something - can I ask where you got that picture? Rest looks the same though.

Edit - looking at it again, it does seem the hex nut is just screwed onto the flat male rod (pic 1 and 2) as per the cutaway pic. So holding the flat rod or compression adjuster, and unscrewing the hex nut should let the shimstack drop out.

Edit 2 - just got it out! yay. More pics and then tuning info to follow later.

Also, you can totally run the fork without it. Floodgate and LSC will still work perfectly, the HSC just sits there in series. You could switch it in and out pretty easily, I think i'll try without it entirely at some point just to see how it feels.

 

[Udi]

Here it is.

A: rod for stack. floodgate/LSC rod (male) goes through this
B: spring for return valve on rebound
C: shim for return valve on rebound
D: piston, turned so that top faces compression shims
E to H: compression shims
I: endcap

Shims F,G,H are identical, E is twice as thick as one of those.

Low speed oil flow can bypass the shims through the stack to some extent, as fatty pointed out. Any faster than that given speed, and the ports will start spiking and then the shims will bend (they are quite firm though - so the shims do seem specific to HS).

To further affirm that, oil can even flow through the piston and around shim E (smaller diameter) and out to the sides without bending the larger shims. So I imagine it takes a pretty fast hit to actually bend them (explains the high speed spiking issues).

I think my first point of attack is just going to be to leave the whole stack out. I'm impressed the damper is constructed to allow this.

For anyone else interested:
Dissasembly simply involves taking the MC cartridge out of the fork, removing the small button head screw that holds the LSC assembly in (2mm allen key), and pulling the LSC assembly out. Finally, hold the compression knob and use 1/2" socket to undo the blue hex nut until it comes off. Shimstack drops out attached to it.

As an update (10/07), if you are removing the stack, make sure the blue hex/core part goes back in - as this affects the floodgate setting (acts as a spacer, if you know how the floodgate works it'll make sense). So basically - unscrew stack from damper, remove all parts (B through to I), and then screw part A back in as it did originally.

I hope that seals the deal, happy tuning.

 

[peachy]

nice documentation. so the largest shims are actually elevated a bit by that smaller shim. hmmm.

please update us on your findings.

 

[peachy]

Udi,

do u know how to remove the upper (rotating) portion out of the MoCo main casing? The part inside holding the stack. My MoCo is friggin' leaking again from the knobs (i think) and I don't want to send it in again.

 

[big-ted]

If you're talking about the bit I think you are, it's on a left hand thread. Simply hold the main plastic body (with all the cutaways) in a vice with a cloth wrapped around it, and unscrew the top in a clockwise direction.

 

[peachy]

reverse thread for the plastic part unto the aluminum top-cap? did i get it right? making sense.

 

[big-ted]

Yup. I found mine was surprisingly tight, to the point I was afraid of breaking the plastic body.

 

[InsideMan]

oh my gosh, i just got my new Bxxr WC today. Is this what i have to look forward to?! i just wana have fun and ride.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Just ride it then. The fork is great out of the box, but like everything, it CAN be made better. I don't think your life will be ruined if you don't go into this much tuning detail however

 

[CBJ]

And it depends on what and where you ride - the fork is great out of the box.

 

[InsideMan]

No drops no big jumps. Just fast wide open pasture to tight through the forest technical small rocks, roots, rock gardens etc. No racing either, we dont have enough people for it in Maui really.

 

[Cave Dweller]

3 weeks should be enough ride time to report on the outcome Mr Udi.....

 

[Udi]

It's great... just as expected.
I've been running 6-7 clicks of lsc with the floodgate right out, and it works pretty well. Lots of compression damping on corners but seems to take out the bumps quite well without spiking.

On flatter corners with loose rocks I found it wanted to lose traction a little (this is with 6-7 clicks so perhaps to be expected) - so my plan is to try a thinner oil next time with the same settings. 5 clicks solves any issues, but leaves me thirsting for a little more LSC... it's a pity the stock adjuster gives so little useable range.

stock = 16.1cst (torco RFF)
me = 13.6cst (silkolene RSF)
and i'm planning to try one of the following:
redline extra-light = 9.8cst
redline like-water = 5.5cst

anyone know if cst is a linear or progressive measurement?

 

[Cave Dweller]

I've been running 6-7 clicks of lsc with the floodgate right out, and it works pretty well.

So, your basically running the Race MCU. Could have saved yourself alot of money buying a race from T7 and spending $350 on the air leg.......

Wow, thats alot of LSC. When i had the race MCU in my fork 3 clicks felt nice, too much made it way too harsh on small bumps. I should have a ride of your bike next time, on paper your settings sound whack to me.

*edit, for the record is put in motul pro line, feels nice. Not sure what the oil values are.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

So, your basically running the Race MCU. Could have saved yourself alot of money buying a race from T7 and spending $350 on the air leg.......

Wow, thats alot of LSC. When i had the race MCU in my fork 3 clicks felt nice, too much made it way too harsh on small bumps. I should have a ride of your bike next time, on paper your settings sound whack to me.

*edit, for the record is put in motul pro line, feels nice. Not sure what the oil values are.

No, he's still got the adjustable floodgate that the Race doesn't have... pretty critical part of his setup is that the floodgate is set to blow off easily so he CAN get away with lots of LSC even as a lightweight.

For the record, I am currently running 5 or 6 clicks of LSC (1 or 2 back from lockout). It's fully sick, you can absolutely thrash the fork into corners and it just takes it rather than ordering a mass retreat 888 style.

Oh should also mention, using Silkolene Pro RSF 7.5wt which udi reckons has a 37.something cSt. It's reasonably heavy oil.

 

[Udi]

No, he's still got the adjustable floodgate that the Race doesn't have... pretty critical part of his setup is that the floodgate is set to blow off easily so he CAN get away with lots of LSC even as a lightweight.

b-i-n-g-o and bingo was his name-o.

 

[Cave Dweller]

No, he's still got the adjustable floodgate that the Race doesn't have...

But he is not using it, he said its backed all the way off = not being used. Unless the race MCU has a middle of the road gate setting. Im not sure about where its set.

I don't find my fork dives at all with 3 clicks of LSC. I do find that it doesn't absorb small bumps if i crank the LSC up, that goes for both the race and team MCU i had.

 

[Udi]

Unless the race MCU has a middle of the road gate setting. Im not sure about where its set.

I do find that it doesn't absorb small bumps if i crank the LSC up, that goes for both the race and team MCU i had.

The reasons why both the race and team suffer with the LSC turned up are entirely different.

The race has the factory floodgate setting too high. (middle or higher, at a guess)
The team allows backing the floodgate off, but still has the speedstack inline which adds more compression damping after the LSC has blown off; which goes against the purpose of blowing off in the first place. The LSC/floodgate (contrary to what you may think) still provides a correct amount (in my opinion) of mid to high speed compression damping - compared to having the speedstack in line which makes this amount much too high in relation to the amount of LSC. Finally, taking the stack out puts the control back in your hands (externally) as the floodgate can now be used to control where the mid/high speed curve starts.

Most of that was covered in the middle pages of this thread.

 

[Cave Dweller]

The race has the factory floodgate setting too high. (middle or higher, at a guess)

thaflyinfatman just said 6 clicks of LSC on his boxxer race was "fully sick". 6 clicks of LSC and the gate wound in half way or more would make one yuck feeling fork in my experiance.

I suspect its not set as high as you think, and your MCU is probably close in set up to a stock Race. Sure, the one extra fine tuning adjustment is nice, but dam did you end up paying alot for it. But as long as your happy with how it turned out then its all good :biggrin:

 

[Udi]

Why do you want to keep convincing me that I paid too much for my setup? I don't see how that is even relevant - but you seem of the opinion that because something is there, it MUST be better. This is not always the case - and this is a prime example.

I've punched out a dozen runs on two boxxer races now, and each has started spiking quite noticeably (under me - but i'm sure toodles can back me up on this) at anything over 4-5 clicks. The worldcup with the speedstack did the same thing. So no, my fork is hardly similar to a stock race - and if anything i've made it different from the race, whereas in stock guise it was actually quite similar in terms of performance!

As for thaflyinfatman, he weighs 90kg, runs a 7" 04 boxxer with MC internals on a bike with a damn low frontend (ie - lots of weight over the front, only compounded by the 7" travel), and likes incredible amounts of compression damping. I wouldn't be surprised if his fork performed a little differently to the two regular ones I tried, but needless to say his setup is quite personalised (and I don't deny, mine is too) and therefore not the most relevant thing to use in comparison.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Sorry mate, just being a bugger. If the setup works for you then cool.

I've punched out a dozen runs on two boxxer races now, and each has started spiking quite noticeably (under me - but i'm sure toodles can back me up on this) at anything over 4-5 clicks.

Sure that wasn’t an issue of the spring being too stiff for you? Toodles would easily be one spring rate above you. When I rode toodles bike his fork felt fine to me, I think his LSC was 4 clicks from memory.

but needless to say his setup is quite personalised (and I don't deny, mine is too) and therefore not the most relevant thing to use in comparison.

That I can agree on. Like I said before, it seems you guys are running a ton of LSC, almost everyones forks I have seen, ridden or has posted there settings is 2-4 clicks of LSC, it just seems odd you guys are running 6 or more, thats all.

And thats it. If i can be bothered im going to pull out my MCU this weekend (seeing the bike is out of action), pull out the stack and hammer it the following weekend and see for myself. Then if i can be bothered i will reinstall the race MCU and ride it as well. I have a feeling in my gut that i won't like it though and its going to be a complete waste of time, im yet to ride anything that felt plush with a ton of LSC.

 

[Udi]

Sure that wasn’t an issue of the spring being too stiff for you? Toodles would easily be one spring rate above you. When I rode toodles bike his fork felt fine to me, I think his LSC was 4 clicks from memory.

...Like I said before, it seems you guys are running a ton of LSC, almost everyones forks I have seen, ridden or has posted there settings is 2-4 clicks of LSC, it just seems odd you guys are running 6 or more, thats all.

...im yet to ride anything that felt plush with a ton of LSC.

Haha - toodles actually ran the soft spring in his race (softer than stock) and for my style it was diving all over the place, so every run I had on it i'd turn it up a click or two... different taste thing again.

But here's the lowdown - running more LSC isn't about plushness or comfort - it's about allowing you to be more aggressive, and often even encouraging it. If you're punching out run after run at a chairlift park (where limb fatigue is the limiting factor) or riding a particularly rocky/loose track, then by all means back off a click (right hand on the top of the leg is as good as it gets!). Traction and comfort will improve. But on a smooth track like coffs, there are noticeable gains to be had on corner entry/exit speed with more LSC - and that's why we use it.

 

[Cave Dweller]

But here's the lowdown - running more LSC isn't about plushness or comfort - it's about allowing you to be more aggressive, and often even encouraging it. If you're punching out run after run at a chairlift park (where limb fatigue is the limiting factor) or riding a particularly rocky/loose track, then by all means back off a click (right hand on the top of the leg is as good as it gets!). Traction and comfort will improve. But on a smooth track like coffs, there are noticeable gains to be had on corner entry/exit speed with more LSC - and that's why we use it.

I was going to post something to that effect. 90% of the time i ride tracks that are like a big rock garden top to bottom. LSC sucks for those. Coffs is probably the smoothest track i have ridden, besides the very top section. The thing has hardly any rocks on it. For a track like that i can see tons of LSC being useful i guess.

I will do it this weekend if i get a chance and report back here in a few weeks after i have had a few runs on it.

 

[Udi]

90% of the time i ride tracks that are like a big rock garden top to bottom. LSC sucks for those.

See that's why it's called low speed compression - so it is reduced on faster impacts. Some courses believe it or not are a very even mix of smooth corners, pedally sections, fast rockgardens, and loose flat corners. So it's not always one or the other - and I think it's good to have a setup that can not only work, but perform on it all. Now can you see why I would strive to reduce the hsc, to allow me to run more lsc without having to deal with the negative effects of excessive compression damping on faster impacts?

There is always going to be some overlap, there is nothing you can do about that - but you can definitely strive to get damn close to that perfect setting (which is obviously going to be different for each of us) - and that's what I was trying to get at here.

reverse thread for the plastic part unto the aluminum top-cap? did i get it right? making sense.

Yep, reverse thread - and mine came undone surprisingly easily (I got prepared for a hamfist session after big-teds post but walked away from the vice feeling good - a rare occasion). Use two appropriate objects in two of the plastic body's slots (some bolts maybe) - so that you can gently clamp it in the vice, and use the slots as flats to hold the body while you undo the cap. Should come off easily. Some pics attached of the business ends.

 

[peachy]

this thread plus the RS service guide and everyone's got everything they need to know about the Boxxers.

 

[Cave Dweller]

See that's why it's called low speed compression - so it is reduced on faster impacts. Some courses believe it or not are a very even mix of smooth corners, pedally sections, fast rockgardens, and loose flat corners. So it's not always one or the other - and I think it's good to have a setup that can not only work, but perform on it all. Now can you see why I would strive to reduce the hsc, to allow me to run more lsc without having to deal with the negative effects of excessive compression damping on faster impacts?

Dude, give me some credit, i know what LSC is, and i know all tracks vary. No need to be condisending.

My original points were i don't think that the LSC orrifice with gate will work as well on high speed hits as the black box stack would.

So im going to do it myself to see what the go is. If it does work as well, or better for me, then i will happily eat my e-words, if it doesn't then, well, what a huge waste of time and effort it will be.

 

[Cave Dweller]

One thing before i do it, do you think there is any chance of bending the needle? Taking out the stack means there is nothing supporting the rod and needle at the end, besides the slot it sits in.

I know in the boxxer race that when you look up inside the plastic mcu spring (when the LSC bit is removed) there is a disc that looks like it supports the shaft, does the team/wc have this bit?

I don't think it will bend but just want to see what you think.

 

[Udi]

The team/wc still has the same disc in the middle that supports the shaft, so no dramas there.

I don't mean to be condescending at all but i'm pretty sure TFFM explained away your theories on the stack and covered the negative effects of sticking it in series (it's only going to add damping, never reduce it).

You don't have to try it if you don't want to... I found there was a noticeable improvement allowing me to run more LSC than I usually would, and get away with it while having less traction loss / hand fatigue than I would with the same LSC setting with the stack - but to get the result closer to perfect you'd have to be willing to play with oil weights or perhaps even change other things.

I don't think tuning is a waste of time at all, I think of it as a little bit of fun rather than a chore (maybe that's just me) - but seriously, swapping the stack in and out takes 10mins max so i'm sure it won't be too big a loss.

 

[Cave Dweller]

The team/wc still has the same disc in the middle that supports the shaft, so no dramas there.

Cool

I don't mean to be condescending at all but i'm pretty sure TFFM explained away your theories on the stack and covered the negative effects of sticking it in series (it's only going to add damping, never reduce it).

Not everything he says is gospel, and i don't agree that the LSC/gate function will peform as well on HSC hits. My feeling is the mod is giving you LSC and taking away some of the HSC function. Sure, the LSC/gate will provide some HSC up to a point, is it enough to cope with super fast rocky trails, well, thats what i will find out. My gut says no, you guys say yes.

You don't have to try it if you don't want to... I found there was a noticeable improvement allowing me to run more LSC than I usually would, and get away with it while having less traction loss / hand fatigue than I would with the same LSC setting with the stack - but to get the result closer to perfect you'd have to be willing to play with oil weights or perhaps even change other things.

I don't think tuning is a waste of time at all, I think of it as a little bit of fun rather than a chore (maybe that's just me) - but seriously, swapping the stack in and out takes 10mins max so i'm sure it won't be too big a loss.

Of course i have to try it, otherwise i am just taking other peoples word for it

Does your MCU unit come out nice and easy? Mine is a bugger to get in and out and i have already destroyed one set of o-rings (and i have only taken it out twice), maybe the WC honed tubes make it easier.

 

[Udi]

Not everything he says is gospel, and i don't agree that the LSC/gate function will peform as well on HSC hits. My feeling is the mod is giving you LSC and taking away some of the HSC function. Sure, the LSC/gate will provide some HSC up to a point, is it enough to cope with super fast rocky trails, well, thats what i will find out. My gut says no, you guys say yes.

i'm hardly sober right now, but if there's one thing i've learnt from a few years talking to him, he's usually right (and it usually sucks).

why would super fast rocky trails need MORE hsc? if anything more hsc is going to increase fatigue because the fork won't be able to move as much and absorb the hit - and the whole idea with having the lsc with blowoff is that there is a reduction in mid to high speed comp damping so that when you punch through a rocky section fast the fork can move and absorb the hits properly.

the only argument for more hsc (in rough/fast terrain) is that the fork will sit higher in its travel and therefore have less travel to recover before the next hit (leaving the fork in a softer part of its travel after a series of hits). That is in fact something steve mentioned (not you, at least from the posts in here i've read) - which seems like a valid argument - but I think the effects of too much hsc are going to become quickly noticeable when it comes to traction - or lack thereof.

there is no point splitting damping into speed brackets if they are going to be the same, or unable to be adjusted individually. if you want to add more lsc, you should be able to reduce the hsc to combat the natural (unwanted) mid/high overlap that the extra lsc is going to give.

if that doesn't make sense then iam too drunk to be posting but i think it does!

 

[Cave Dweller]

the only argument for more hsc (in rough/fast terrain) is that the fork will sit higher in its travel and therefore have less travel to recover before the next hit (leaving the fork in a softer part of its travel after a series of hits). That is in fact something steve mentioned (not you, at least from the posts in here i've read) - which seems like a valid argument - but I think the effects of too much hsc are going to become quickly noticeable when it comes to traction - or lack thereof.

Yes i did, in post #23 and again in #34, and i mentioned it before steve btw. This was part of my whole argument as to why the blackbox stack is in there in the first place.

Like i said, i will know for sure when i take it out and hammer it on the rockiest trail i have access to without a car, old bathurst road......

there is no point splitting damping into speed brackets if they are going to be the same, or unable to be adjusted individually. if you want to add more lsc, you should be able to reduce the hsc to combat the natural (unwanted) mid/high overlap that the extra lsc is going to give.

That is another thing i already mentioned in this thread. The problem with motion control, which is fixxed with mission control (in the new totem forks) is that the black box stack in motion control doesn't have an adjustable bypass. If it did, like the totem does, you can control them individually.

Like i said before in the thread, the black box is probably shimmed for a middle of the road setting which wasn't to your liking, but i still think its required in some form with lighter shimming like i said somewhere in the thread. I think taking the whole thing out and relying on just the LSC and gate is not the way to go and will result in not enough usable, controlled HSC. I can see my fork either packing down easy, or just plain locking when it gets rough.

Its all hypothical (to me at least) until i do it anyway, no point going over all this continuously

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Why do you want to keep convincing me that I paid too much for my setup? I don't see how that is even relevant - but you seem of the opinion that because something is there, it MUST be better. This is not always the case - and this is a prime example.

I've punched out a dozen runs on two boxxer races now, and each has started spiking quite noticeably (under me - but i'm sure toodles can back me up on this) at anything over 4-5 clicks. The worldcup with the speedstack did the same thing. So no, my fork is hardly similar to a stock race - and if anything i've made it different from the race, whereas in stock guise it was actually quite similar in terms of performance!

As for thaflyinfatman, he weighs 90kg, runs a 7" 04 boxxer with MC internals on a bike with a damn low frontend (ie - lots of weight over the front, only compounded by the 7" travel), and likes incredible amounts of compression damping. I wouldn't be surprised if his fork performed a little differently to the two regular ones I tried, but needless to say his setup is quite personalised (and I don't deny, mine is too) and therefore not the most relevant thing to use in comparison.

Sick, I've lost weight. All thanks to teh intarnets!

The comp damping at 6 clicks is great for hitting corners (yet to get it on a really fast/rough track though, I imagine I'll end up backing it off a bit), and given my weight I don't feel it's excessive (esp given that I'm running the stock spring - might grab a stiffer one at some stage). I haven't noticed any overt harshness in the rough stuff that I have ridden though, but one thing I did notice was this freakin cool sensation over fast stuff that the bike really slows down the ground's inputs (mainly in a stability sense more than a bump absorption sense). Kind of similar to that muted feeling that really soft long travel bikes give, but with a lot more control/feedback and most definitely without that wallowing sensation.

BTW CD - you ever ridden a MX bike? You know how the suspension feels spastically overdamped and oversprung if you try and bounce up and down on it... my bike feels like a much less extreme version of that. I just like it because it feels controlled and stable, and it does it without seeming to compromise bump absorption. These are relatively early impressions though as I've only gotten a few rides on the MoCo damper, but so far I like it. Though I am considering some future mods, but that's long-term really.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Yes i did, in post #23 and again in #34, and i mentioned it before steve btw. This was part of my whole argument as to why the blackbox stack is in there in the first place.

Like i said, i will know for sure when i take it out and hammer it on the rockiest trail i have access to without a car, old bathurst road......



That is another thing i already mentioned in this thread. The problem with motion control, which is fixxed with mission control (in the new totem forks) is that the black box stack in motion control doesn't have an adjustable bypass. If it did, like the totem does, you can control them individually.

Like i said before in the thread, the black box is probably shimmed for a middle of the road setting which wasn't to your liking, but i still think its required in some form with lighter shimming like i said somewhere in the thread. I think taking the whole thing out and relying on just the LSC and gate is not the way to go and will result in not enough usable, controlled HSC. I can see my fork either packing down easy, or just plain locking when it gets rough.

Its all hypothical (to me at least) until i do it anyway, no point going over all this continuously

I mentioned it on farkin aaaaaaages ago

Your fork might "pack down" but I can't see how it would "just plain lock". That's not going to happen from a lack of damping.


BTW as for my explanation on the nonlinearities of the MCU that I promised like a month and a half ago:

Let's start with a given oil flow rate (caused by a given shaft speed) and a given aperture size. Damping force is proportional to the resistance of the aperture (roughly speaking, inversely proportional to the 5th power of the aperture size) multiplied by the dynamic (or was it kinematic... pretty sure it's dynamic) viscosity of the oil and multiplied by the square of the oil speed.

So
Damping Force ~= [viscosity x oil speed^2]/(aperture diameter^5)

(or aperture area^2.5 rather than d^5 since the shapes are strange).

Obviously, damping force = difference in (pressure x area of piston). Areas remain constant, so proportional to pressure difference. I'm sure you know all this stuff CD but I'm just laying it out for clarity's sake.

Now for the fun bit: the amount of displacement of a linear spring (let's assume the MC unit is pretty much linear for small displacements, because it's probably fairly close... and at small enough displacements, everything is linear anyway) is also proportional to that pressure difference, which means that it's directly proportional to damping force.

Given that the aperture area is pretty well directly proportional to the displacement of the MCU in the Boxxer (remembering that the displacement is proportional to the damping force!), we now have the following equation:

Damping force ~= [visc x speed^2]/[aperture area^2.5]
becomes
Damping force ~= [visc x speed^2]/[damping force^2.5]
take oil viscosity out as a constant
Damping force ~= speed^2/damping force^4
Damping force^3.5 ~= speed^2
take natural log of both sides
3.5ln(damping force) ~= 2ln(speed)
ln(damping force) ~= (2/3.5)ln(speed)
ln(damping force) ~= 0.57ln(speed)
exp^ both sides
damping force ~= speed^0.57

A linear damping force would be a function of speed^1, progressive damping force would be a function of speed^(>1), regressive damping force is a function of speed^(<1). Therefore, this is a regressive damping force. Which we already knew/expected for a high speed blowoff, but what is worthy of note is the rough prediction of the force being proportional to something very close to an inverse function of a fixed aperture. In other words, where a fixed aperture will give you a force that's proportional to the speed^2, this gives you a force somewhat similar, in function, to being proportional to speed^(1/2). Obviously this is a very rough calculation as it ignores Reynolds number and roughness effects, the effect of the displacement of the piston relative to the shaft on the relative oil velocity etc, but it gives you some idea of what you'd expect.

Interpretation: the MoCo unit, before worrying about the shim stack, should provide a regressive HSC curve. As the speed increases, the rate of change of the curve DECREASES (if anyone wants to bust out the calculus, go nuts) so you get a greater and greater tendency towards linear damping. Given that you can change oil viscosity as a constant, I fail to see how this would be an insufficient high speed damper. Oh and with the floodgate you can also determine where the quadratic LSC curve joins the inverse quadratic HSC curve, so yeah really... sorry but I have not much (read: no) analytical reason to believe that the HSC stack would actually be beneficial. The ONLY thing I can think of is that the spring constant of the MCU is not something you can change... but then again, that's offset by the fact that the oil viscosity is.

Naturally though, all the theory in the world is useless if it doesn't line up with reality, so go and try it. Give your bike to an independent observer to ride too (preferably similar size and weight), just so the placebo effect can be discounted (don't tell them whether the shim stack is in or out). Yes you too Udi.

 

[peachy]

on a more easier to digest question regarding the stack, would a lighter rider benefits when one (of the 3 indentical shims) is remove?

 

[thaflyinfatman]

If you find that you're getting too much high speed compression then yes.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

But he is not using it, he said its backed all the way off = not being used. Unless the race MCU has a middle of the road gate setting. Im not sure about where its set.

I don't find my fork dives at all with 3 clicks of LSC. I do find that it doesn't absorb small bumps if i crank the LSC up, that goes for both the race and team MCU i had.

Backed right off as in "so it blows off the easiest" not "so it never blows off".

The Race does indeed appear to have a fairly medium setting. It's definitely more difficult to blow off than if you have the floodgate set to blow off as easy as possible in a Team/WC.

I find SFA difference for the first 3 clicks of the LSC. And all forks dive to some degree, you just have to decide how much you want. If yours doesn't dive "at all" with 3 clicks of non existent LSC, I suggest you start running some sag

 

[Cave Dweller]

Bit busy at the moment, but i will resond to your calcs when i have some free time and once i have actually ridden the black boxless MCU unit, so don't expect a reply to that depth for a few weeks.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Have not actually had a chance to ride it yet due to work and such, but i have pulled out the shim stack.

For everyone&#8217;s info, in the team/world cup MCU i have, turning the gate knob from full off to full on only moves the end of the needle 3mm. At full -ve gate the measurement from the end of the MCU spring to the tip of the needle is almost spot on 17mm, and at full +ve position it is almost spot on 20mm.

The Race does indeed appear to have a fairly medium setting. It's definitely more difficult to blow off than if you have the floodgate set to blow off as easy as possible in a Team/WC.

I also measured the boxxer Race MCU i have, its position is fixxed at exactly 20mm, or in other words, the boxxer race stock gate setting is the gate cranked all the way +ve.

Also, my fork started making some sucking noises when i pushed up and down on it with the LSC cranked to 5 clicks. Anyone else find this? Im thinking maybe some oil got lost during the change, can't think what else it could be.

Are you guys finding that with so much LSC the bike feels unbalanced? Just bouncing around on it, the front feels way to harsh compared to my rear. Maybe it will different on the trail. I will post back once im not busy and have some spare time to actually ride my bike and the new settings :-(

 

[MTB-Bryon]

But on a smooth track like coffs, there are noticeable gains to be had on corner entry/exit speed with more LSC - and that's why we use it.

What's the LSC doing for you on these corners? I am thinking on entry is it reducing brake dive and on exit allowing you to pedal without fork bob?

I never used more than 3 clicks LSC on the tracks in BC, but I did think early season that a bar mounted lever (XC style) may work for some tracks on the smooth pedal sections.

Where is Coffs and what's it full name?