[mogulskr]

How do you know when you should switch to a double and is there an advantage to it. I'm in the big ring now for entire rides and there are no big hills to speak of around me.

 

[LordOpie]

Don't bother until the bottom bracket wears out. Or until you've had enough of the teasing.

 

[jacksonpt]

why does it really matter? I would do it to force myself out of the granny on a few of the bigger climbs, so it would be like a training aid for me. If you are already in the big ring, what's the point?

 

[LordOpie]

why does it really matter? I would do it to force myself out of the granny on a few of the bigger climbs, so it would be like a training aid for me. If you are already in the big ring, what's the point?

agreed, but it really is as flat as he says it is, he might as well make the jump to single-speed. No point in having all the stuff if it's not needed?

 

[mogulskr]

If you are already in the big ring, what's the point?

That's what I was trying to figure out, is there a point?

 

[jacksonpt]

agreed, but it really is as flat as he says it is, he might as well make the jump to single-speed. No point in having all the stuff if it's not needed?

I agree - but he didn't ask about SSing, only goign to a double.

 

[jacksonpt]

That's what I was trying to figure out, is there a point?

as opie aluded to above... some very minimal weight gains perhaps (unless you have an anchor crankset now and go with a carbon double, then the weight gains would be a bit more)... but probably nothing you'd notice from the saddle, especially if it's flat riding.

 

[mogulskr]

It's Northern MA and Southern NH. There are hills that will need a smaller chainring on occasion. I guess I will ride what I have until it breaks then make the change. Thanks

 

[sanjuro]

The cost of switching over to a double is prohibitive. The proper way to do it to replace:

Crankset
BB
Front derailleur
Left Shifter

And it can add up, especially the last item. You could ghetto it by skipping the last 3, but you will definitely have shifting issues.

However, while all your local rides doable in the big ring, what happens on that century ride? Will there be hills you will need a small chainring? Or can you keep pace with other riders in your middle?

 

[jacksonpt]

sanjuro - is the ring spacing different on a double versus a tripple? I was considering making the switch at some point this summer if my budget allows, but I wasn't planning on swapping out my der or shifter (but definitely the BB).

 

[LordOpie]

The cost of switching over to a double is prohibitive. The proper way to do it to replace:

Crankset
BB
Front derailleur
Left Shifter

I'm almost positive you don't have to change the shifter. At least the 105 is one model and works with both setups.

You can probably adjust the limits on the front derail and avoid replacing it, yeah?

For that matter, you can probably just take the small ring off... if a rider is comfortable with his feet as far apart as they currently are with the triple... then adjust the limits and most people wouldn't know

EDIT: Yes, medium ring, big cog wouldn't be as smooth if you just took the small ring off.

And you'll probably pop the chain off more than you'd like, so learn how to get the chain back on while still riding... and no, don't bend over and stick your fingers down there

 

[Pau11y]

The shifter and front derailleur does not need to change. Just adjust your throw limit screws on the derailleur to account for the narrower range of double vs triple. And, if you really want to conserve, you can just unmount the inner ring and get a narrower BB (118.5 to 109.5 for Shimano).
The items listed by sanjuro are a must for double to triple, but not so the other way. Hell, even the BB doesn't need to change if you can deal w/ the slightly wider Q factor. For most ppl, 4.5mm either side is not really that noticable. It does mess w/ your chainline altho not very significantly.

Edit: oops, didn't catch what LO said.... Yeah, what he said!

 

[JRB]

If it's Dura-Ace, you'll need a new shifter.

 

[JRB]

sanjuro - is the ring spacing different on a double versus a tripple? I was considering making the switch at some point this summer if my budget allows, but I wasn't planning on swapping out my der or shifter (but definitely the BB).

It's the same. The only shifter that I know of that is double/triple specific these days is DA. That is Shimano speaking, of course. The old R600 was not that way, but everything is now.

 

[jacksonpt]

It's the same. The only shifter that I know of that is double/triple specific these days is DA. That is Shimano speaking, of course. The old R600 was not that way, but everything is now.

Cool - so I can keep my 105 stuff then if/when I make the switch.

 

[Arsbars]

With the new compact cranks & how cheap you can get them I am hoping we see less and less triples on road bikes. There are a view applications that I can see them (Touring is the big one.)

 

[LordOpie]

With the new compact cranks & how cheap you can get them I am hoping we see less and less triples on road bikes.

Why?

Granted, why sell a triple in a relatively flat area, but why the triple-hate?

For one thing, I've heard consistently mixed reviews about compacts' shifting. Jumping that big seems to be just as bad as dealing with triple's shifting.

 

[Pau11y]

If it's Dura-Ace, you'll need a new shifter.

Loco, DA still works from a triple down to a double.

 

[jacksonpt]

With the new compact cranks & how cheap you can get them I am hoping we see less and less triples on road bikes. There are a view applications that I can see them (Touring is the big one.)

Perhaps there is more to your comment, but it seems like that is pretty blind tripple hate to me. Tripples are/can be crucial to someone just getting into riding, especially if they live in an area with little flat ground.

I got my roadie last summer, and wasn't new to riding but was new to the road. If I had a double I would have quit in a hurry. No way could I have survived with a double (even if it was a compact). Even now, after a year on the bike (including all winter), I still need my granny for certain climbs.

 

[JRB]

Loco, DA still works from a triple down to a double.

I have never set one up, but would assume it would shift like crap, opposed to a true double shifter. Those micro shifts don't look like that would work well for doubles. I am assuming you are saying it would set up like, say 105, but those don't have the adjustment in the pawls that DA does.

 

[JRB]

<snip>For one thing, I've heard consistently mixed reviews about compacts' shifting. Jumping that big seems to be just as bad as dealing with triple's shifting.

I have never understood this comment. I've never had an issue with triples. I even went and tuned one that they said the DA shifter was broken on yesterday. I run an Ultegra double front der on my compacts with no issues. I don't get why people say you need a special derailleur for them. I don't have any rub on any of the gears. I rub in the 2 high cogs when using the little ring, but that is so cross chained that I wouldn't run it anyway.

 

[Pau11y]

I have never set one up, but would assume it would shift like crap, opposed to a true double shifter. Those micro shifts don't look like that would work well for doubles. I am assuming you are saying it would set up like, say 105, but those don't have the adjustment in the pawls that DA does.

No, I've locked out the lower ring w/ the throw limit screws and it worked just fine.

 

[JRB]

No, I've locked out the lower ring w/ the throw limit screws and it worked just fine.

Cool - nice to know. Thanks.

 

[Serial Midget]

Converting an existing triple crank drivetrain to a double is a waste of money... keep what you got and bank your savings for coodinated spandex bibs, jersey & wind shell.

 

[LordOpie]

Converting an existing triple crank drivetrain to a double is a waste of money... keep what you got and bank your savings for coodinated spandex bibs, jersey & wind shell.

I think bibs are the most under-rated piece of equipment.

 

[Arsbars]

Perhaps there is more to your comment, but it seems like that is pretty blind tripple hate to me. Tripples are/can be crucial to someone just getting into riding, especially if they live in an area with little flat ground.

I got my roadie last summer, and wasn't new to riding but was new to the road. If I had a double I would have quit in a hurry. No way could I have survived with a double (even if it was a compact). Even now, after a year on the bike (including all winter), I still need my granny for certain climbs.

Sure triples are necassary for some folks getting into cycling, but most at that level with the derail and shifter don't **** very well. Beginners end up cross chaining & sometimes even breaking chains do to this. The gear ratio on a compact is almost the exact same as a triple if you put on the correct rear cassette. Now you won't get every single combination but the ratio's are almost the same. You don't need a long cage rederail, & shifting is much crisper.

My girlfriend just got into road cycling. She lives in upstate PA/NJ and it is a very hilly area. She was pretty out of shape & has a compact FSA with a 12-25 in the back. I haven't seen her walk a hill yet.

There is a time and place for triples such as brevets or something like that but leave that to the Ultegra/Dura Ace level of compenants. Not Sora/Tiagra.

 

[Arsbars]

I have never understood this comment. I've never had an issue with triples. I even went and tuned one that they said the DA shifter was broken on yesterday. I run an Ultegra double front der on my compacts with no issues. I don't get why people say you need a special derailleur for them. I don't have any rub on any of the gears. I rub in the 2 high cogs when using the little ring, but that is so cross chained that I wouldn't run it anyway.

I don't remember if it was Truvativ or not but last year there was HUGE ring issues. To the point you would call for an RA on the crank and they would simply send 2 or 3 sets of rings to replace all the other ones you might have in stock.

 

[rooftest]

I did a century this weekend, and was smoking stronger riders on the climbs. I've got a double, while they were riding triples. The double, I think, forces me to turn a bigger gear and go up faster, and makes me a better climber.

OC's pretty hilly, and I've never had to walk a hill yet. (although I have needed to stop and rest a couple times for one hill)

 

[sanjuro]

I did a century this weekend, and was smoking stronger riders on the climbs. I've got a double, while they were riding triples. The double, I think, forces me to turn a bigger gear and go up faster, and makes me a better climber.

OC's pretty hilly, and I've never had to walk a hill yet. (although I have needed to stop and rest a couple times for one hill)

Triples is not some magic gear. If you can maintain momentum with a double on the steepest climbs, then you don't need a triple.

The granny gear is for riders who cannot keep up momentum on the tough climbs. Most riders can grunt up a hill, but on a major climb, lactic acid will defeat the weaker climbers. They cannot push the bigger gears for very long.

 

[jacksonpt]

My girlfriend just got into road cycling. She lives in upstate PA/NJ and it is a very hilly area. She was pretty out of shape & has a compact FSA with a 12-25 in the back. I haven't seen her walk a hill yet.

I guess my point is that it seems kind of snobby to say tripples are unnecessary the vast majority of the time. My Quest has a tripple and a standard casette (I think it's 12-25, but not 100% sure), and I walked ALL the good hills in my area for the first season. Now I can ride them all, but I still need my granny/25 for most of them.

For your reference, this is how the local roadie club describes one of the good climbs:

1.8 miles, the "not so easy" side is 1.1 miles of hill averaging 10.5%, and ending with a final insult at around 19% with another half mile or so to get to the finish

They used to have a hill profile, but I can't find it anymore.

 

[Echo]

There have been a couple of hills that have made me wish I had a triple. If I ran into one of them late in a long ride I would be in trouble.

But I don't see why some people are concerned with what others think of their chainring config choice, and I don't see why some people are concerned with what config other people choose for themselves. But hey, I ride a double so I can spout opinions without fear of reprisal

 

[Arsbars]

I have "snobbery" due to working on the stupid things daily. Not saying it isn't right for you, but it would be great if some companies would be giving alternative to the triple.

 

[jacksonpt]

But I don't see why some people are concerned with what others think of their chainring config choice, and I don't see why some people are concerned with what config other people choose for themselves. But hey, I ride a double so I can spout opinions without fear of reprisal

I assume this was directed at me...

If he is just expressing an opinion as "I hate tripples", then I don't care. I just wanted to know if there was more to it than that (a performance gain by going to a double... something like that). If it's just an empty opinion, then we'll disagree and it's no big deal - he rides what he likes, I ride what I like.

But if there's some substantial reasoning as to why he doesn't like tripples, I'd like to know. I'm to the point where I might be able to survive on a double... and if I can't make everything now, I will by the end of the summer. If there's a good reason to go with a double, it may prompt me to upgrade sooner.

 

[jacksonpt]

I have "snobbery" due to working on the stupid things daily. Not saying it isn't right for you, but it would be great if some companies would be giving alternative to the triple.

First off - I'm not trying to pick a fight here... sorry if it sounds that way. See my response to Echo as to why I'm drawing this out.

Is there a problem with triples... is there something to gain by bumping up to a double? I'm on the fence about it right now...

As for alternatives... isn't that what doubles and compact doubles are? I've seen a bunch of compaines (cannondale and bianchi right off the top of my head) that offer a lot of their models in both a double and a tripple, with the only difference being the chainrings. Or are you saying that is what EVERYONE should be doing?

 

[rooftest]

....Is there a problem with triples... is there something to gain by bumping up to a double? I'm on the fence about it right now...

.... The double, I think, forces me to turn a bigger gear and go up faster, and makes me a better climber....

.....

 

[LordOpie]

is there something to gain by bumping up to a double?

there is absolutely nothing beyond ones opinion. There's no definitive reason, no end-all-be-all answer.

If someone goes double cuz a triple makes for sloppy shifting, then they simply don't want to maintain their drivetrain.

It's a fact that anyone who has a little skill and puts forth a little effort can make a triple, 8-speed Sora drivetrain run fine.

Lastly, I challenge ANYONE who's opinion, for whatever reason, that double is better than triple to go single-speed.

 

[Arsbars]

there is absolutely nothing beyond ones opinion. There's no definitive reason, no end-all-be-all answer.

If someone goes double cuz a triple makes for sloppy shifting, then they simply don't want to maintain their drivetrain.

It's a fact that anyone who has a little skill and puts forth a little effort can make a triple, 8-speed Sora drivetrain run fine.

Lastly, I challenge ANYONE who's opinion, for whatever reason, that double is better than triple to go single-speed.

I was actually thinking about all this on my ride. I ride a single speed & used to only own/ride a fixie on the road. Did centuries & long miles/climbs on that guy too.

 

[Arsbars]

I assume this was directed at me...

If he is just expressing an opinion as "I hate tripples", then I don't care. I just wanted to know if there was more to it than that (a performance gain by going to a double... something like that). If it's just an empty opinion, then we'll disagree and it's no big deal - he rides what he likes, I ride what I like.

But if there's some substantial reasoning as to why he doesn't like tripples, I'd like to know.

I'm a girl btw

I have no "hate" for triples. I just think too many people fall on the "I'm out of shape and can't ride that hill" excuse. There are reasons you work up to hills/mountain climbing. Maybe you keep a crazy cadence & need that granny gear?
Performance gain is slack if any, weight loss is gain too. Other than the crappy front derailleurs (shimano) & the long cage derailleurs i have no huge issue technically speaking. More along the lines of folks thinking they need a triple because that's what they've been told.

As I stated in my last post. For a good long time my only ride was a fixie running a mid 70's gear inches. I did centuries and charity rides. Sure climbing sucked but I'm not working out to not break a sweat. Now a 25t with a granny gear is low 20's I believe? I could completely seeing a granny gear if you are riding that climb you gave us the profile on... but how many everyday cyclist see that?

My other comments were also based on ratios. With a triple I find most people are complaining things are either too easy or two hard between the granny and the middle.

That's my two cents. I have no HATE. I just dont think the vast majority of entry level bikes should be with compacts. I also don't like a ton of Shimanos parts or listen to ska. Only my opinons and things I've seen/heard/felt.

 

[Serial Midget]

Short cage derailuers shift better; a granny gear requires a med or long cage. Most manufactures also add larger cassettes to their tripple set-ups that require a long cage - this can lead to sloppy shifting. The best shifting I have experienced was with a 39/51 11/21 campy short cage, tight and precise but probably not worth the future knee replacement! :mumble:

The worst I've experienced was a 2002 Sora triple with a 12/28. Sucked right out of the box.

 

[rooftest]

11/21? Damn!