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ICEBALL585

Bacontard
Sep 8, 2009
6,809
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Bills win again and are tied with 5 other teams for the wild card slot? Seriously?

But... the next 2 games are against the donkeys and the pack so there goes our playoff chances.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,113
1,171
NC
And the last game is against the Patriots.

With that schedule, I can't see them sneaking in on a wildcard, at this point I'm just hoping they'll win against Oakland and maybe pick off one other to devalue the first round pick that they're giving up to Cleveland.
 

ICEBALL585

Bacontard
Sep 8, 2009
6,809
2,058
.:585:.
Bills lost to the Donkeys (which I pretty much expected).

The refs were making some bullshit calls and WTF is this?!? Ref celebrating a Denver TD???
 

I Are Baboon

The Full Dopey
Aug 6, 2001
32,477
9,651
MTB New England

I Are Baboon

The Full Dopey
Aug 6, 2001
32,477
9,651
MTB New England
That's awesome. I wish RG III would just go away, he's annoying as hell to listen to whine constantly on every ESPN newscast.
I think he is done. He'll probably stick around the league for a while, but he won't be a #1 franchise quarterback. He can not run like he used to, and he is not a good pocket passer.
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,441
392
Fenton, MI
I think he is done. He'll probably stick around the league for a while, but he won't be a #1 franchise quarterback. He can not run like he used to, and he is not a good pocket passer.
He never started.....so he can't be done.

Seriously, dude is terrible. The only thing he had was a good arm and the ability to run, he has no pocket presence, no ability to actually read the defense and throw the ball, etc.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,113
1,171
NC
He never started.....so he can't be done.

Seriously, dude is terrible. The only thing he had was a good arm and the ability to run, he has no pocket presence, no ability to actually read the defense and throw the ball, etc.
I think that might be a little unfair. In his first season he passed for 3200 yards and owned a 20:5 TD:INT ratio. He had the #3 completion percentage & QB rating in the league and averaged more yards per attempt than anyone else.

It's kind of a weird case. I agree that he might just be relegated to a backup role for the rest of his career. On the other hand, he's been pushed through injuries, is playing behind a pretty terrible offensive line, has a toxic environment with coaching and ownership being so at odds on his status, and he has clearly become so gun shy that he can't be an effective quarterback. That's not going to work for a franchise that mortgaged their future on his draft pick.

I just wonder if a change of scene, a different coaching staff and lifting the weight of the franchise off his shoulders might bring back a pretty talented athlete.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,686
20,513
Sleazattle
I think that might be a little unfair. In his first season he passed for 3200 yards and owned a 20:5 TD:INT ratio. He had the #3 completion percentage & QB rating in the league and averaged more yards per attempt than anyone else.

It's kind of a weird case. I agree that he might just be relegated to a backup role for the rest of his career. On the other hand, he's been pushed through injuries, is playing behind a pretty terrible offensive line, has a toxic environment with coaching and ownership being so at odds on his status, and he has clearly become so gun shy that he can't be an effective quarterback. That's not going to work for a franchise that mortgaged their future on his draft pick.

I just wonder if a change of scene, a different coaching staff and lifting the weight of the franchise off his shoulders might bring back a pretty talented athlete.

His first season the run option offense was all the rage, since then Defense's have figured out how to defend it. You will also note that kaeioupernic and Cam Newton haven't done as well since then. Wilson is still a threat as he is a decent pocket passer. The NFL is a constant arms race, developing new offensive schemes and defending against them. RG III was great at one point but now he may be obsolete unless he can change his game. That being said running backs were recently considered obsolete yet are still playing a huge role in winning teams. Defenses migrated more towards speed to cover receivers and now big backs can power their way through yards.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,113
1,171
NC
I understand, my point is only that he was a fairly accurate passer and his accuracy was not coming from underneath high-percentage tosses. Newton was a 58% passer (good for 26th that year) with a 19:12 TD:INT ratio, and Kaepernick didn't play the whole season but was still well outside the top 10 in completion percentage.

The NFL absolutely adjusted to the style of offense RGIII was running that year, but he pretty clearly demonstrated an ability to complete passes in the pocket.
 

I Are Baboon

The Full Dopey
Aug 6, 2001
32,477
9,651
MTB New England
The NFL absolutely adjusted to the style of offense RGIII was running that year, but he pretty clearly demonstrated an ability to complete passes in the pocket.
He was completing passes from the pocket when the run was still a threat and his first target was open. Since the run has essentially been taken away and he now has to look to his second or third passing targets, his accuracy is way off and he is not good at reading defenses.

This is me just rehashing what I saw on ESPN....I certainly don't have a trained enough eye to pick up on this stuff myself.

I agree though that being on the Redskins certainly isn't helping him.
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,441
392
Fenton, MI
He was completing passes from the pocket when the run was still a threat and his first target was open. Since the run has essentially been taken away and he now has to look to his second or third passing targets, his accuracy is way off and he is not good at reading defenses.

This is me just rehashing what I saw on ESPN....I certainly don't have a trained enough eye to pick up on this stuff myself.

I agree though that being on the Redskins certainly isn't helping him.
This.

The passes he was completing were either first option receiver wide open due to his threat to run, or him scrambling and finding the open man playing backyard football.

Binary Visions, you can call me unfair for saying he sucks, but you'd also have to call his head coach and pretty much any other "professional analyst" unfair for saying the same things. I obviously don't have access to the coaching film etc, but just watching him play you can see that as soon as he drops back in the pocket (even during his "awesome" rookie year) that he has no clue where to go with the ball.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,113
1,171
NC
Just so we're clear: I agree that RGIII does, in fact, suck right now.

However, he was succeeding in conventional passing during his rookie season AND doing so in a more convincing way than some of his other scrambling peers. His regression has been so drastic that I just don't think chalking it up to "he sucks" is telling the whole story.

I'm not claiming he's going to set the world on fire, just that he is playing exceptionally terrible football right now and I don't believe that's representative of his capabilities.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,686
20,513
Sleazattle
He was running a different offense then. Brother of Chucky could just be designing an offense he either not capable of or not a good match for him. A really nice square peg never fits well in a round hole.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,635
5,987
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Too lazy to look it up, but during RG-Me's rookie season, did Alfred Morris also rush for 1,000 yards? Or was that the next year? Obviously I'm wondering if an effective running game made opposing defenses put "8 men in the box" (still have a hard time saying that cliche) and allow his receivers to get moar open. That said, Morris is having a decent (if quiet) year this season, and it doesn't seem to be helping. My other thought with RG is if he can't trust his plant foot anymore and its screwed up his footwork and throwing mechanics.

In end tho, if you look at the top 4 teams in the NFL at the moment (Donks, Pats, Packers, and Seagulls), 3 of them have traditional drop back passers, with Wilson still being a pretty effective pocket passer when he has to be (trust me, I saw him play in person for 3 years, and the guy can be exceptionally accurate from the pocket). Or even the Cards when they were rolling, had Palmer playing well, and he's about as mobile as Stephen Hawking.
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,441
392
Fenton, MI
Just so we're clear: I agree that RGIII does, in fact, suck right now.

However, he was succeeding in conventional passing during his rookie season AND doing so in a more convincing way than some of his other scrambling peers. His regression has been so drastic that I just don't think chalking it up to "he sucks" is telling the whole story.

I'm not claiming he's going to set the world on fire, just that he is playing exceptionally terrible football right now and I don't believe that's representative of his capabilities.
I hear what you are saying, and I disagree, I think it IS representative of his abilities. I do think that you've seen the best he can be, which i don't believe was very good.

He was succeeding in passing during his rookie season, as described 1st man was open, don't go through progressions, scramble, find open guy. When contained, if first receiver wasn't open he would get sacked.

I think his rookie season was an anomale, more so than what can be expected. Defenses weren't up to the task of chasing him down so it opened things up down field. Outside of flashy mobility and a strong arm during playground football plays, he is not very talented in my opinion.

Now that he has been injured and doesn't have mobility, confidence in his plant foot, or the ability to read a defense, his faults are more glaring.

I mean, simple things like taking the right amount of steps in a drop back are things he is doing wrong. That is elementary.

oh, and go lions, you won't be 8-8 this year!!
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,635
5,987
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Has there been a "success story" in terms of developing a mobile QB into a legitimate pocket passer? I'm thinking of guys like Vick, Newton, RG-Me, Kordell Stewart, Daunte Cullpepper and maybe even Randall Cunningham. I'm sure I'm missing some, but I can't think of any that ever developed into consistent/competent pocket passers. Maybe Steve Young? Although I tend to think of him in more along the lines of Rogers or Wilson in that they will run when the opportunity presents itself, but he was more of a polished pocket guy in the end.

As for the Lions, they've had a damn solid year considering Stafford is still turning the ball over (albeit, at a reduced pace) and Johnson was down for a good portion of the season. That defense is no joke.
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,441
392
Fenton, MI
Steve Young. He was a Vick/Cunningham/RG III/ kind of runner early in his career. But they molded that out of him VERY quickly.

Stafford Sucks. He doesn't play quarterback, he plays throw it up to calvin and pray.

Megatron is hurt, because of our quarterback play, I cringe everytime they throw him the ball because he is so exposed and takes so many hits.

The defense, even with no secondary has been fun to watch this year, our front 7 has been very solid. 3-4 years ago who would have thought Deandre Levy would be a stud?
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,635
5,987
in a single wide, cooking meth...
The defense, even with no secondary has been fun to watch this year, our front 7 has been very solid. 3-4 years ago who would have thought Deandre Levy would be a stud?
I can say similar things about Suh and Fairly, as I didn't think either one of them would become consistently good NFL D-linemen (for different reasons). I was hoping my NCSU boy Willie Young would develop into a more effective pass rusher, but I think he's just a situational player at best. And while it's cool to see the Lions avoiding their traditional fate (at least so far), I do miss the days of Wayne Fontes and the crazy runs they'd make at the end of the season to save his job. Don't miss seeing Matt Millen screw things up in the front office for years on end.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,635
5,987
in a single wide, cooking meth...
No kidding. That defense will keep them in any game. God forbid they even have a competent passer on the order of Alex Smith. The WRs are surprisingly good.
Honestly, I think the only thing they're lacking is a consistently competent ball thrower. RBs are good with old man Jackson and Spiller (broken holla bone aside), WRs are good as you mentioned with Watkins obviously leading the way, and the defense is playing lights out. Assuming the Bills take care of Jokeland (which to be fair, is the kind of game the Bills are known to lose), they'll have a shot at the playoffs if they can beat the Pats in Drunksboro - no small task tho given that the Hoodie doesn't rest his starters even when they've got everything wrapped up.

It will be interesting to see how they try to address the QB situation, as it appears they've all but given up on Manuel, and I don't really see any franchise type QBs in the upcoming draft (i.e. I'm not even sold on Mariotta). Maybe try to get a 3rd round sleeper like Russell Wilson.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,635
5,987
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Benching Hoyer wasn't the best move.
Clearly not, but given how little protection the O-line was providing against the Bengals, I think the outcome would've been about the same. Oh well, I did at least enjoy watching the Bengal defensive players prance around giving the (predictable) "dollar, dollar" signs to Johnny...
 
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binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,113
1,171
NC
Benching Hoyer wasn't the best move.
Maybe... I mean, yes, Johnny Interception did not have a good game. But there's some wisdom in thinking that a high-variance QB at the end of the season is better than a mediocre one. Either they lose out and improve their draft position, while at least giving some reps to their high draft pick, or maybe the lack of game tape and change in game plan actually lets them win.
 

berkshire_rider

Growler
Feb 5, 2003
2,552
10
The Blackstone Valley
they'll have a shot at the playoffs if they can beat the Pats in Drunksboro - no small task tho given that the Hoodie doesn't rest his starters even when they've got everything wrapped up.
Everything isn't wrapped up, unless Denver loses one of the next 2 weeks. Home field through-out the playoffs is still undecided. Playing in Foxborough > going to Denver, should they both make it to the AFC championship game.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,635
5,987
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Yeah, I knew the donks are still likely to get the number 1 seed, but even when the Pats had homefield wrapped up in the past, the Hood still played his starters. My impression was they did it not to ostensibly screw other teams from making the playoffs, but mainly just to keep his starters in "rhythm". That said, it wouldn't surprise me if he rested Gronk if their playoff seed wasn't going to change based on the outcome of the Bills game. He took another shot to the legs yesterday, and it seems like only a matter of time before he gets hurt again (at least on the field).
 

ICEBALL585

Bacontard
Sep 8, 2009
6,809
2,058
.:585:.
I'm still amazed that the Bills beat the Pack. It was a good day in western NY yesterday! :happydance:


If the Bills beat the Raiders next week (which should be possible) then it will be the first time in 10yrs that the Bills will finish the season with a winning record. :shocked:
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,679
9,666
fucking eagles.

hey detroit...your fucking welcome.
 
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