10 months to build, 10 days to destroy...

BurlyShirley said:

Yeah, I guess I dont see the big deal. A couple kids building bike jumps in the woods. Thats what kids do.

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Frickin chill people. This wasn't pristine old growth wilderness they carelessly chopped and wacked - or even urban parkland. It was throwaway land. Odds are they could go talk to who ever needs talking to and get an OK. A little promise of cleaning up the area, etc ... It sounds a lot like the south seatac trails [do a search].

But on another note.

Sorry to hear T-Pirate. We've enjoyed your spot thru your many pictures, all of which were appreciated. Good times ya had, many more to come I'm sure.

lux said:

You're so ghetto.

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Since I am actually from the ghetto. I might actually qualify as ghetto. Or atleast be qualified to know what it is. I hope I have left all that behind me. But maybe I haven't. So be it..... To me some kid living on knottingham lane in some whitebread suburban quagmire spouting ghetto speak just doesn't ring true. I other words I am not down with wannabee G-speak. Its silly IMO...

jdcamb said:

Since I am actually from the ghetto. I might actually qualify as ghetto. Or atleast be qualified to know what it is. I hope I have left all that behind me. But maybe I haven't. So be it..... To me some kid living on knottingham lane in some whitebread suburban quagmire spouting ghetto speak just doesn't ring true. I other words I am not down with wannabee G-speak. Its silly IMO...

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No, dude. I was pointing out your misuse of the word "your."

lux said:

No, dude. I was pointing out your misuse of the word "your."

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My bad. Can I blame that on City schools?

And, while I'm at it. Some very good points about trail access issues have been made here. Munkee Hucker might have a point for these guys trying legitimate requests for property use.

But.

None of you guys busting Mueller's chops have ever been to Greenville, SC before. If you had, you wouldn't be commenting. I used to live there. In fact, I was in third grade when they integrated the schools. Yep, that's right.

This dirt lot where they built those jumps and drops is so, so very far removed from the types of places y'all are working on legit trail access, it's not even funny.

Sorry to hear about your jumps.

Been there.

Seems a lot of monkeys missed out on their childhood(teen) years.

jdcamb said:

My bad. Can I blame that on City schools?

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It's up to you, my friend. I have a rural southern education and seem to do allright.

T-Pirate -- sorry about the loss. One of the places I'd hope to hit one of these days.

sucks man.

I'm with those that have expressed the sentiment "isn't that what kids do?" I know that's what I did as a kid.

Building jumps typically means having your jumps torn down eventually. That's how it's always been (at least in CA), I got used to that a long time ago. Still sucks though....

lux said:

None of you guys busting Mueller's chops have ever been to Greenville, SC before. If you had, you wouldn't be commenting. I used to live there. In fact, I was in third grade when they integrated the schools.

This dirt lot where they built those jumps and drops is so, so very far removed from the types of places y'all are working on legit trail access, it's not even funny.

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I have been to Greenville a few times actually. Seemed like a nice place... I was actually almost prosecuted for building illegal stunts here in Rochester NY. Basically because I got involved and did trail maintenance on a dump turned park that some groms built some dangerous stunts in. Once they realized I didn't build them, they wanted me to drop a dime on the folks that did (I didn't). Lost a few friends because of it actually. And I was in the second grade when they integrated they schools in my hometown (not sure what that has to do with anything). One good turn deserves another by the way...

jdcamb said:

One good turn deserves another by the way...

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Already fixed it. :eviltongu

jdcamb said:

So your momma (maybe your foster momma) bought you video games instead of teaching you respect. So sad. After all she was busy working doubles down at dennys so she could have enough beer and cigarette money for your "uncles". Don't worry someone will come along and teach you some someday. I bet you and your homeys representin' in your housing tract/complex/trailer park are pimpin' it on your stylin' rigs. By the way when the **** goes down hot and heavy down in your hood do you nextel your moms to come and pick you up or do you just ride really fast away from the big kids so they don't see you crying again......

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Go stick a long, hard shaft down your throat and die. Please.

A few kids built some berms and jumps, not the end of the ****ing world. They're/we're ****ing kids, who don't deal with beaucratic bull**** and just want to ride. So what if they built on an abandoned piece of ass land without permission, I would've and have done the same. Get off their ass and go sit in a meeting for tail access for 3 years while I'm riding.

It's not a big DEAL, LET IT GO.

justsomeguy said:

This thread is sad, and not because some illegally built trail was shut down.

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OMG we agree!!!

Now for my thoughts on it.

First of, Sorry you had to tear down your trail, looks like alot of time invested

Second, did you know it was federal land???

Third, reason they didnt Bulldoze it was more likely they wanted to teach them a lesson of labor, dont break the law again, also it costs teh gov quite a bit more to send a crew with a dozer than it does to make teh kids building it to tear it down


Third, Dude Permits are way easier to get than you think. Currently My riding partner and I have a permit to build and Modify on Forestry land. There are some rules we Must adhere to in doing so, some of the basics... Dont interfer with existing trails making them Inpassable, dont interfer with water flow dont Kill living palntlife.... Etc. Just had to go to the forestry Dept and start asking how to get the permit.

Fourth, Please dont go renegade style building your trails. People here are right, you make All Mtn bikers look bad when you do that.

Fifth, Dont refer to Police officers as "Pigs".. What are you going to call them when your dialing 911 cause someone is breaking into yourhouse and is threatening to Kill your parents if you dont show them the cash??? They have a Very dangerous job, and deserve more respect than to be thought of as "Pigs" i know your upset you lost your trail, but you broke the law. they enforced it. Just as if it was a crime against you. Not saying go out the throw them all a party, but come on little more respect for our law enforcement, maybe some gratitude you were not prosecuted!!!




I think i big note here to remember is yes they were a bunch of kids, doing what kids do. If they dont want to go after permits to use Federal land, there are other areas you can go to. They learned a lesson, now they know. The fact they were "Kids" is most likely why they didnt get prosecuted. So, good luck with your next trail. Hope all goes well with it. And your able to either get your permits, or find land its allowable on.

The holier than thou attitude in this thread is f@#$ing laughable.
People judging other people when they have no clue of the situation
is lame.
We have no problem with trail access here.
We have Pisgah National Forest and countless other places to ride that people travel all over the country to hit up. These places are kept up well and respected by all those who ride there.
This spot these kids built were something different entirely.
The land they built it on is not going to be used for anything.
Its too close to the airport to develop, so it is a basically a dumping ground for the local industrial businesses.
I realize some of you haters that have to put bells on your bikes to keep from spreading freedom to the hikers can't comprehend the deal, but these guys are not doing $hit to hurt trail access here at all,
and these guys are the very same kids that will help volunteer anywhere just to help out.
Point being, some young MTBers lost a place to ride where they were hanging and camping out and not hurting anything.
Jeez, everybody drive 55 tomorrow too and keep those tags on your mattresses!!

DirtyMike said:

OMG we agree!!!

Now for my thoughts on it.

First of, Sorry you had to tear down your trail, looks like alot of time invested

Second, did you know it was federal land???

Third, reason they didnt Bulldoze it was more likely they wanted to teach them a lesson of labor, dont break the law again, also it costs teh gov quite a bit more to send a crew with a dozer than it does to make teh kids building it to tear it down


Third, Dude Permits are way easier to get than you think. Currently My riding partner and I have a permit to build and Modify on Forestry land. There are some rules we Must adhere to in doing so, some of the basics... Dont interfer with existing trails making them Inpassable, dont interfer with water flow dont Kill living palntlife.... Etc. Just had to go to the forestry Dept and start asking how to get the permit.

Fourth, Please dont go renegade style building your trails. People here are right, you make All Mtn bikers look bad when you do that.

Fifth, Dont refer to Police officers as "Pigs".. What are you going to call them when your dialing 911 cause someone is breaking into yourhouse and is threatening to Kill your parents if you dont show them the cash??? They have a Very dangerous job, and deserve more respect than to be thought of as "Pigs" i know your upset you lost your trail, but you broke the law. they enforced it. Just as if it was a crime against you. Not saying go out the throw them all a party, but come on little more respect for our law enforcement, make some gratitude you were not prosecuted!!!

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Yea, because not doing what you're told is wrong.

Jeremy R said:

...and keep those tag on your mattresses!!

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What? You tore yours off? No way, dude.

DirtyMike said:

Fifth, Dont refer to Police officers as "Pigs".. What are you going to call them when your dialing 911 cause someone is breaking into yourhouse and is threatening to Kill your parents if you dont show them the cash??? They have a Very dangerous job, and deserve more respect than to be thought of as "Pigs"

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i believe i used the term "pigs". i was joking around. i've never had a good experience with cops...never had a bad one. have seen them do some absolute bull**** stuff, and have seen them do some good stuff.

but in the end, i was joking.

lux said:

What? You tore yours off? No way, dude.

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I am a rebel of the street corner.:looney:

chicodude said:

Yea, because not doing what you're told is wrong.

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Chico, are you going to enjoy going to prison later in life???

Hey they could have told the Police, no we arent gonna tear it down, and at the end of the ten days, a crew would have been contracted or assigned to tear it down. After that There Parents would most likely be the targets for covering the cost. And along with the possibilty of prosecution by the state. But hey Keep on breaking the law, and being that Cool renegade!!! let us know when we need to Ebay your bike to get your Bail money


Btw read the original post i qoueted....

justsomeguy said:

This thread is sad, and not because some illegally built trail was shut down.

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DirtyMike said:

Chico, are you going to enjoy going to prison later in life???

Hey they could have told the Police, no we arent gonna tear it down, and at the end of the ten days, a crew would have been contracted or assigned to tear it down. After that There Parents would most likely be the targets for covering the cost. And along with the possibilty of prosecution by the state. But hey Keep on breaking the law, and being that Cool renegade!!! let us know when we need to Ebay your bike to get your Bail money


Btw read the original post i qoueted....

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I did.


I just think its absurd that people are so bent out of shape about about these jumps. Kids build jumps. Since they wanted to ride, they took the inititive (Sp?) and built some stuff themselves. If they took the time out to get it approved they would still be sitting at home and not riding.


Plus, I guess no one that is spouting off never did anything wrong when they were kids. go figure


This is getting old.

chicodude said:

I did.


I just think its absurd that people are so bent out of shape about about these jumps. Kids build jumps. Since they wanted to ride, they took the inititive (Sp?) and built some stuff themselves. If they took the time out to get it approved they would still be sitting at home and not riding.


Plus, I guess no one that is spouting off never did anything wrong when they were kids. go figure


.

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Yeah i agree about the Absurdity here, I hope you didnt think that was my take on it. I for one used to do the same thing growing up. We never had anything near as nice as these guys had going, but still. Like i said before they learned a lesson, got out the trouble easily, and hopefully next track they build up they remember what they have learned so it doesnt die a horrible death.

98% of you do not know the circumstances and the e-speculation has gotten a little out of hand here... it's dumb, but that's internet forums for you.

However, none of the arguing will change the fact that it was a cool place to ride and now it's gone. RIP spot

BurlyShirley said:

Yeah, I guess I dont see the big deal. A couple kids building bike jumps in the woods. Thats what kids do.

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Kids in East LA spray graffiti on an abandoned building in a crappy neighborhood. It's not legal, but is "just what kids do". Apples and Apples. The "it was a dump before we altered it" *argument* is complete weaksauce. It was not theirs to alter without permission, plain and simple.

How about this, the next time I'm on federal land on a trail that has a nice big jump in it, I'll demolish the jump. I'm sure that trail didn't always have that jump... It's just what kids do.

MisterClean said:

Kids in East LA spray graffiti on an abandoned building in a crappy neighborhood. It's not legal, but is "just what kids do". Apples and Apples. The "it was a dump before we altered it" *argument* is complete weaksauce. It was not theirs to alter without permission, plain and simple.

How about this, the next time I'm on federal land on a trail that has a nice big jump in it, I'll demolish the jump. I'm sure that trail didn't always have that jump... It's just what kids do.

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You cant help but prove yourself retarded in each post. Kids altering a dump may be the same legally speaking as spray painting public property, but ethically they're quite different. If you cant see that, well, that's why I consider you so stupid.

BurlyShirley said:

You cant help but prove yourself retarded in each post. Kids altering a dump may be the same legally speaking as spray painting public property, but ethically they're quite different. If you cant see that, well, that's why I consider you so stupid.

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Maybe in the state of confusion the vandalism statute is different than everywhere else, but where I have lived and been involved in law enforcement, both are vandalism. I'm happy to see you consider me stupid, considering the source.

MisterClean said:

Kids in East LA spray graffiti on an abandoned building in a crappy neighborhood. It's not legal, but is "just what kids do". Apples and Apples. The "it was a dump before we altered it" *argument* is complete weaksauce. It was not theirs to alter without permission, plain and simple.

How about this, the next time I'm on federal land on a trail that has a nice big jump in it, I'll demolish the jump. I'm sure that trail didn't always have that jump... It's just what kids do.

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Why do you open your mouth? You know as much about the law as the average C.S.I watcher, and your career in Mall Enforcement doesn't exactly engender respect.

Thanks for clearing up the obvious, though. They built unauthorized stunts, and the authorities knocked them down.

"It sucks" is all that needs to be said. Instead of some kids riding there illegally, other trespassers can now dump their trash without seeing kids have some fun, while the legal owners can watch the garbage grow. Everyone wins!

The lesson that should be learned is not to stop building stunts, but to learn how to gain land access so that you can build legally.

MisterClean said:

Maybe in the state of confusion the vandalism statute is different than everywhere else, but where I have lived and been involved in law enforcement, both are vandalism. I'm happy to see you consider me stupid, considering the source.

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you are quite narrow minded along with the rest of 'em...you also think that people that can "huck" over 6 ft. have no talent or skill on a bike...ahhh...ignorance must be such bliss...

I love all the hall monitors on here too btw...hope y'all enjoy life following ALL the rules...

and a lot of graffitti artwork I've seen actually improves the area...here in Chico, the city is paying some local young "artists" to graffitti art on all of the underpass cement bridge support thingermajiggies...it's beautiful...

sorry about your spot Tpirate....uch:

T-Pirate,

Sorry you lost your spot, hope you find another. I do suggest that you at least edge towards getting organized and trying to get some sanctioned space.

J

johnbryanpeters said:

T-Pirate,

Sorry you lost your spot, hope you find another. I do suggest that you at least edge towards getting organized and trying to get some sanctioned space.

J

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Yup it's only a matter of time before they find "The Spot II".

i think before you just rest on the 100% renegade stance you should give a try and see if you can push the right buttons to get a sweet spot you'd like first. In everything it's all about "who you know"....

i've built stuff that got torn down, i've built stuff that will get torn down, and just recently i've built stuff that's going to be there for damn near forever unless a frikkin tidalwave or earthquake kills it. And you know what, it feels pretty nice to walk away from something that everyone who wants to ride on can for future generations.

Skateboarding has similiar illegal roots, because it was a "new sport" as well, but times are a changing and like them we should always try to move to do legit stuff. If only for the reason that nobody will kill it, because they'd rather have a meth lab there or somethin.....

I hate the internet, you pussyfooting bastards like to complain about our previous place to ride, which most of you have never been to.... I didn't see any complaints about leagality when mueller (T-Pirate) posted countless pictures of us riding at our spot. Yeah it sucks to not be able to ride there any more, but what sucked more was talking to a room full of cops that thought what you were doing was cool, but had to shut it down for liability issues. I rather keep building and not sit around on my ass waiting for a place to build.

Curiouscaptian01 said:

I hate the internet, you pussyfooting bastards like to complain about our previous place to ride, which most of you have never been to.... I didn't see any complaints about leagality when mueller (T-Pirate) posted countless pictures of us riding at our spot. Yeah it sucks to not be able to ride there any more, but what sucked more was talking to a room full of cops that thought what you were doing was cool, but had to shut it down for liability issues. I rather keep building and not sit around on my ass waiting for a place to build.

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Similiar thing happened in Austin. The neighborhood association, local bike club, etc. helped and they got some legal stuff going. Can y'alls parents help get the ball rolling?

Curiouscaptian01 said:

I rather keep building and not sit around on my ass waiting for a place to build.

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There's nobody here "who knows what they're talking about" that is saying you can't do both.

Good luck on the struggle guys.

damn ya'll thta sucks to hear. loved seeing pics of ya'll rippin the spot and i was hoping to make it down when i get my hardtail built up. methinks however you probably already have a new location for a bigger and better The Spot part 2

losing a riding spot, legal or not, always sucks if you put alot of time and effort into it. and i dont think everyone here should be so pissy about the illegal trail deal, it was discovered and got destroyed end of story. almost everyone here has at one time ridden or helped to build an illegal trail so we arent all the perfect trail users either. im definitely a supporter of all mountain biking organizations(hence my somewhat angry post earlier when i took biker3s post too seriously) but sometimes you cant get an organized thing to build the trails so you just need to say **** it and build anyways.

Curiouscaptian01 said:

I hate the internet, you pussyfooting bastards like to complain about our previous place to ride, which most of you have never been to.... I didn't see any complaints about leagality when mueller (T-Pirate) posted countless pictures of us riding at our spot. Yeah it sucks to not be able to ride there any more, but what sucked more was talking to a room full of cops that thought what you were doing was cool, but had to shut it down for liability issues. I rather keep building and not sit around on my ass waiting for a place to build.

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word. at least the cops were chill. you should have asked them if they have kids that ride. having the popo step up and take interest in a legal riding spot would be cool.

its kinda like our old secret spot. it got bull dozed but there was only a sign that said we had 5 days to tear down the stunts, we said screw it they are gonna tear it down anyways to get fill dirt so whatever.

Curiouscaptian01 said:

but what sucked more was talking to a room full of cops that thought what you were doing was cool, but had to shut it down for liability issues. I rather keep building and not sit around on my ass waiting for a place to build.

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same thing happened here with the stinc...pics made it all the way to the DC BLM office and they were blown away...everybody felt bad about making the boys tear it down...but, we do live in America which is filled with asshats who LOVE to sue...took about 2 years to build, a few months to tear down...and about $500/person in fines due to about 30 large wood structures and the fact that since it made it to DC they had to impose some sort of fine and send it to the courts...but those BLM people tried their hardest to let them keep the trail...they were even treating the guys like celebs and taking pictures with them...problem is...most people that woulda tried to poach the trail...woulda probably died riding it...but that trail was waay better for the land and scenery then the dumping ground it was and is again now...

goodtobeIrie said:

you are quite narrow minded along with the rest of 'em...you also think that people that can "huck" over 6 ft. have no talent or skill on a bike...ahhh...ignorance must be such bliss...

I love all the hall monitors on here too btw...hope y'all enjoy life following ALL the rules...

and a lot of graffitti artwork I've seen actually improves the area...here in Chico, the city is paying some local young "artists" to graffitti art on all of the underpass cement bridge support thingermajiggies...it's beautiful...

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Show me a 12 year old hucker who can rail a singletrack and you'll be showing me a rarity. There's this thing called "context" and you went out of it there. Again, my note was about balanced riders. Put your average hucky ducky on a rigid singlespeed and they would flail. Put a seasoned veteran singlespeeder on an engineless motorcycle and encase them in plastic and that 6' drop is nothing. Pigeon-holing oneself into any rider "class" is truly narrow-minded.

When I asked a friend who knows Bender where he had disappeared to a few years ago he said that Bender had bought an xc bike and was learining how to ride.

Following all of the rules, do you truly think anyone in CA drives at or below the speed limit? If they did, they would die. All the rules, that's funny. Altering property without the permission of the property owner or land manager is not paying a graffiti artist to paint a bridge. Apples and oranges.

MisterClean said:

Show me a 12 year old hucker who can rail a singletrack and you'll be showing me a rarity. There's this thing called "context" and you went out of it there. Again, my note was about balanced riders. Put your average hucky ducky on a rigid singlespeed and they would flail. Put a seasoned veteran singlespeeder on an engineless motorcycle and encase them in plastic and that 6' drop is nothing. Pigeon-holing oneself into any rider "class" is truly narrow-minded.

When I asked a friend who knows Bender where he had disappeared to a few years ago he said that Bender had bought an xc bike and was learining how to ride.

Following all of the rules, do you truly think anyone in CA drives at or below the speed limit? If they did, they would die. All the rules, that's funny. Altering property without the permission of the property owner or land manager is not paying a graffiti artist to paint a bridge. Apples and oranges.

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if you went up against either of these two kids on ANY kind of bike and ANY kind of terrain my money would be on them all the way.I have ridden with them tons of times and they can out run just about anyone on any singletrack. unfortunately it sounds like the only thing you can run is your mouth. it seems like every time you opst all you have to say is something that makes you sound like an asshole and quite frankly i am tired of hearing your mouth. When you bring yourself down off your self appointed pedestal and swim through your moat of self agrandization with something constructive to say I will then begin to listen to you. until then quit harpin on these kids.

MisterClean said:

Following all of the rules, do you truly think anyone in CA drives at or below the speed limit? If they did, they would die.

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Maybe this thread needs some humor ... Meditation on the Speed Limit.

And another word to the "Cult of Ultimate R3SP3CT" - shrug off the hate. Ya'll know damn well we monkeys are overwhelming sad right along with you. T-Pirate is a "Featured Photographer" for gods sake. Everyone knew [or should have known] it wasn't legit. It was a vicarious dream come true. We got to watch a small group of tight friends grow, both as riders and people. From curb hucks to smooth doubles, from enduros to transitions, from "I'll never smoke pot" to packing lips with bongwater. Anyone remember these boys getting chastized for not wearing gloves? Ya'll captured the magic of both youth and riding - and as an old daily grinder, my days needed some of that. Helmets off to ya with a moment of silence. Aight, enough of that.
Personally, I was amazed it lasted so long. Good luck on the Spot II.

biggins said:

if you went up against either of these two kids on ANY kind of bike and ANY kind of terrain my money would be on them all the way.

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Pick any trail in Southern CA that climbs over 3,000ft and is over 30 miles long with your any bike, anywhere, or any time in the next four weeks and make it worth my while. I can cover $5,000. Put up or shut up, kid.