[DßR]

Sorry if this is old news, but... QR20 looks to be gone -- I was just checking out the '05 Marzocchis on the website; and found this "All new dedicated 20mm dropout and axle design for 2005! We took the style and look of the 888 dropout and transferred it to the 32mm magnesium monolite casting. This new dropout can be found on the Z.1 Series, Dirt Jumper Series, and Junior T fork models."

Yay. Thanks for listening Marz!

 

[InsaneP2Rider]

i'm really liking some of their new forks


should be interesting to see how people like the 66's and how a 7" SC without 1.5 will hold up

 

[Dartman]

Hope it doesn't crack like the 888. :eviltongu

Mike

 

[Cave Dweller]

should be interesting to see how people like the 66's and how a 7" SC without 1.5 will hold up

The fork will hold up just fine. But frames will be ovalising their head tubes left, right and center unless they use chris king steel sets.

Most bikes are just not designed for a 7inch single crown and the stresses involved. 1.5 makes the frame stiffer but also has a deeper headset pressing depth which reduces ovalisation.

Anyway, it only took maz about 3 years to ditch the stupid QR20 system. Maybe after three years of ovalising heaps of bikes 1.5 will become the standard.

Sigh.........

 

[Bulldog]

QR20 looks to be gone [/IMG]

Yay. Thanks for listening Marz!

Yeah good-f'ing-riddance!

Actually, the current ('03-'04) version, QR20pro, when optioned with the QR axle does have its merits - absolutely no tools. Kinda handy I guess, though IMO everyone should have some allen wrenches on a bike using about 836 allen bolts. Every other incarnation though had some serious flaws, most of them dealing with still needing tools and not being "quick". So would I vote to save QR20pro?...Naaaaaaaah!

 

[HRDTLBRO]

I'm loving the Shiver. Tried and true. Anyone know if it's still a euro only realease?

 

[Bulldog]

The fork will hold up just fine. But frames will be ovalising their head tubes left, right and center unless they use chris king steel sets.

Most bikes are just not designed for a 7inch single crown and the stresses involved. 1.5 makes the frame stiffer but also has a deeper headset pressing depth which reduces ovalisation.

Bikes are designed around forks, forks are designed around bikes. How many bikes changed slightly this year to accomodate the 888's popularity last year?

The only people in possible trouble will be guys like me with 3 year old bikes and wanting to run a 66. I'm only getting the 6" version, and my bike can handle a fork of that length and has been ok'ed by the manufacturer to do so, though a SC of that size surely was never imagined when it was built. But there are always those who need to learn the hard way...

Anyway, it only took maz about 3 years to ditch the stupid QR20 system.

Try 6 years, starting with the '99 Z1 CR.

 

[mplutodh1]

lets whine about how long it took to get the dedicated 20mm setups.. what the heck difference does it matter, they are here! 1.5 will take a while to catch on, if it ever does, I wasnt around when 1 1/8 was in the switches (well I probably was but wasn't into the riding stuff to know what the hell the difference was) but I am sure it took a while to catch on. It takes the cooperation of a lot of companies to get it done. Frame manufactures, headset manufactures, fork manufactures all working together... neither one wants to lose money and jump all into it at once to find out the whole thing will die a year or two down the road. Give it time and wait and see what happens. The 05 Marz stuff looks awesome though, I had picked out a fork for my HT when the frames are ready but it looks like I will have to do the comparison shopping again and decide what new model I want, too many nice things to decide from for 05 from Marz.

 

[SebringMGB]

i see no more super-t. replaced by the low end 888 im asumin

 

[zedro]

The fork will hold up just fine. But frames will be ovalising their head tubes left, right and center unless they use chris king steel sets.

...

then use a proper headset if needed. I didnt blame Marz when my 5" Z1 ovalized my GT Zaskar designed for xc and a 70mm fork....

 

[DßR]

then use a proper headset if needed. I didnt blame Marz when my 5" Z1 ovalized my GT Zaskar designed for xc and a 70mm fork....

This is less of a problem anyway since there's more 1" deep insert steel cup headsets out there now. Blackspire, FSA, etc. No need for a $$teelset.

 

[dhtahoe]

Hope it doesn't crack like the 888. :eviltongu

Mike

Yeah because fools use a huge allen wrench to tighten it... get a clue buy a torque wrench and quit over tightening little 4mm bolts.

 

[The Kadvang]

Yeah because fools use a huge allen wrench to tighten it... get a clue buy a torque wrench and quit over tightening little 4mm bolts.

Seriously. Those bolts don't have to be torqued down all to hell, but people gain some sort of perverted satisfaction out of it. Also, yea, no more super T, just the lower end 888s.

 

[DßR]

Yeah because fools use a huge allen wrench to tighten it... get a clue buy a torque wrench and quit over tightening little 4mm bolts.

I'm quite sure Dartman broke his while using a torque wrench. Lighten up.

 

[Captain Crunch]

This is less of a problem anyway since there's more 1" deep insert steel cup headsets out there now. Blackspire, FSA, etc. No need for a $$teelset.

None of them is really 1" insertion. They're all 5/8" or something around there. King is it. I take back anything I said ever before about Woodmans or anyone else making a Headset that could touch a King.

 

[zedro]

geez who cares....if the bike comes OEM with one dont sweat it

 

[Cave Dweller]

then use a proper headset if needed. I didnt blame Marz when my 5" Z1 ovalized my GT Zaskar designed for xc and a 70mm fork....

Yes, that was my point. Alot of bikes out there are designed to work with 7inch DC forks not 7inch 1 1/8 single crown forks and their is going to be problems. Not everyone who rides a bike is an engineer and knows what the hell they are doing when they whip a 7inch single crown fork on their 2 year old bullit. And while it may not be maz's fault directly if this starts happening they should at the minimum warn people about it.

I still think 1 1/8 & 1.5 7 inch forks are silly and won't use them but such is the freedom of choice, give me a set of triple clamps anyday.

-Matt

 

[Cave Dweller]

geez who cares....if the bike comes OEM with one dont sweat it

Exactly, OEM bikes designed for it should be fine, its the ones not designed for it that you have to worry about ie almost every bike prior to this year.

 

[E.C.]

I've got a freind who broke his while using a torque wrench .He is a very maticulous mechanic ,so it must be a fairly common problem.
I waited for an intire season for a replacement QR20 from marz. ( had to run a bolt through it). I wont miss em a bit.

 

[Mattoid]

So how will a 7" sc be more stressfull than a 7" dc fork on a frame? Wouldnt the sc flex more causing less stress to transfer to the headtube/headset? Or is it that "flex" that will be doing the damage as it moves?

 

[ohio]

Yes, that was my point. Alot of bikes out there are designed to work with 7inch DC forks not 7inch 1 1/8 single crown forks and their is going to be problems. Not everyone who rides a bike is an engineer

Uh, dude. A 7" SC will be equal or less dangerous to a headtube than a 7" DC. Even a massively stiff SC can't be any stiffer than a DC which should more than make up for the increased axle-crown length on an SC. (there's a few other little things that can happen with flex in the steerer tube, but if the fork is even remotely well designed, they shouldn't happen)

Basically if your bike is DC approved, it can handle this fork. If it's only SC approved, don't think that just because the 66 is an SC your bike can handle it.

 

[-dustin]

a brown fork.....wow....

 

[bighitfsr]

"Uh, dude. A 7" SC will be equal or less dangerous to a headtube than a 7" DC"

Uh Dude !!!
7 inch SCs are significantly taller than 7 inch DCs.
Thats a real bummer dude.

This cave dweller dude seems to be onto something, eh dude?

"Even a massively stiff SC can't be any stiffer than a DC which should more than make up for the increased axle-crown length on an SC."

Yeah really, prove it dude.

Is that psyco-somatic (sp?) stiffness you speak off or have you been conducting real tests in your lab.

Marz not adopting 1.5 is a pride thing issue evidenced by their satements in MTBA.
A marz 6 inch SC is a lot heavier than a manitou 6 inch SC nuff said dude (the Z1-FR-SL is only slighly lighter than a TPC+ breakout and its air sprung).

Marz get it together and support the 1.5 standard you are creating an unsafe situation for pink bike newbies and holding up technological advancement of the whole MTB industry (as 1.5 SC forks are lighter and not significantly more flexy or less durable than DCs).

 

[mplutodh1]

a brown fork.....wow....

fox did it too this year, UPS must have influenced the design team or something.

 

[grimm]

Yeah good-f'ing-riddance!

Actually, the current ('03-'04) version, QR20pro, when optioned with the QR axle does have its merits - absolutely no tools. Kinda handy I guess, though IMO everyone should have some allen wrenches on a bike using about 836 allen bolts. Every other incarnation though had some serious flaws, most of them dealing with still needing tools and not being "quick". So would I vote to save QR20pro?...Naaaaaaaah!

From personal experience ive NEVER liked the different qr20's theyve come up with. Im glad they are moving closer to a true dedicated 20mm system

The z150 i had cost me a fortune to replace just the inner clamp thingy. i was stupid and overtightened it, so it basically cracked. I cant believe they charge £20 for a piece of FORGED (not even cnc'ed) piece of aluminium and a bolt! Those clamps theyve used are always voulnerable to hits and overtightening, and prices for spares are like you see outrageous.. and it doesnt take faster to change the wheel on it compared to a dedicated 20mm either. I take my tools any day.

 

[D_D]

Marz get it together and support the 1.5 standard you are creating an unsafe situation for pink bike newbies and holding up technological advancement of the whole MTB industry (as 1.5 SC forks are lighter and not significantly more flexy or less durable than DCs).

How exactly are they holding up technoligical advancement of the whole mtb industry? You can use a 1 1/8 fork in a 1.5 frame and 1.5 forks are available from manitou. Not to mention the rather large segment of mtb riders where 130mm is long travel and have nothing to gain from 1.5.

The long travel single crowns need to be proven durable first. When it isn't uncommon for 100mm single crowns to have durability problems it's unlikley single crown dh forks are going to be able to cut it for everyone.

 

[Dartman]

I'm quite sure Dartman broke his while using a torque wrench. Lighten up.

Thanks for watching my back, man. Yes, the first time I did use a torque wrench. The second time was with a T handle with two fingers. The third time I'm just going to cover the bolts with duct tape to keep them from falling out.

Who you callin' a fool! Fool! :nuts:

Mike

 

[binary visions]

None of them is really 1" insertion. They're all 5/8" or something around there. King is it. I take back anything I said ever before about Woodmans or anyone else making a Headset that could touch a King.

Actually, FSA just released a true 1" deep insertion headset, and I believe Blackspire had one on the way (though I could be wrong about that ?).

 

[Jesus]

Actually, FSA just released a true 1" deep insertion headset, and I believe Blackspire had one on the way (though I could be wrong about that ?).

What headset is that?

I couldn't find it on their website.

 

[binary visions]

What headset is that?

I couldn't find it on their website.

Might not be on the website. I saw it in.. Hrm.. Bike, maybe? MBA? One of the bike magazines. Was definitly a full 1" insertion.

I'll dig it up next time I'm home, won't be home until tomorrow night though. The caption claimed it was "released" - whether that means "available to the general public" or not, I don't know.

 

[Bulldog]

A marz 6 inch SC is a lot heavier than a manitou 6 inch SC nuff said dude.

Uh, usually any XYZ-purpose Marz fork is heavier than a similar purpose Manitou. Difference in build philosophy. So what's your point?

BTW - The Z.150 was a filler until the 66 was ready. A good fork, but not designed from the ground-up as a 6-7" fork. I'd love to hear what you have to say about the huge 66 weighing less than 1/4 pound more than the Breakout+?? The 66 has a super thick steel steerer, 35mm legs, mega crown, huge lowers with 3.0 tire clearance, open bath etc. To flip your statement back on you, how could that little Breakout+ be so heavy??

 

[binary visions]

I'd love to hear what you have to say about the huge 66 weighing less than 1/4 pound more than the Breakout+?? The 66 has a super thick steel steerer, 35mm legs, mega crown, huge lowers with 3.0 tire clearance, open bath etc. To flip your statement back on you, how could that little Breakout+ be so heavy??

I'd love to see the two forks on a real scale before we go claiming that it's less than 1/4 pound heavier, first of all.

The next question to answer before flipping the statement back, is how durable are the ultra thin walls of the 66?

I think your statement there is a little premature considering how much is actually known about the real world durability/usability of the fork. The "little Breakout+" has had "little" (if anything) in the way of structural problems so clearly that heavy weight (which isn't all that heavy) has been put to excellent use.

 

[Echo]

I think the fact that these threads always turn into a Manitou vs. Marzocchi pissing contest, when it had nothing to do with Manitou at the start, is evidence of how Manitou has improved their game enough to worry the Marzocchi faithful...

 

[vitox]

What headset is that?

I couldn't find it on their website.

there are two versions
pig dh pro deep steel
pig dh pro deep alloy

theyre exactly the same headset save for the material, the steel is polished and laser engraved steel right down to the upper bearing cap

insertion is 7/8"

here is the steel version, a real frame saver

here the alloy version i put on my xc hardtail, its got an incredibly skinny head tube and was flaring a bit so i put that pig on in order not to have problems later on..

 

[zedro]

I think the fact that these threads always turn into a Manitou vs. Marzocchi pissing contest, when it had nothing to do with Manitou at the start, is evidence of how Manitou has improved their game enough to worry the Marzocchi faithful...

naw, i think people get all retarded when the steerer tube debate fires up.

Companies dont have pride, they have a bottom line... which is why Manitou has some 1.125 steerers comming out where they said they wouldnt.

 

[Jeremy R]

Ooh, when I woke up this morning, I could not wait to hop on RM and see if my life's dream of having another 10 page thread about steerer tubes would ever materialize. And..................(tear).........this thread really gives me hope. Oh Gosh, Christmas is coming early this year!! :devil:

 

[Kornphlake]

I think 3" steerer tubes will be lighter and stronger allowing for pink bike certified hucks on a 14" SC fork.

Seriously, we've been getting on newbies for not using the search function. Same can be said about this topic I guess, if you want to rant about 1.5 vs 1.125 dig up an old thread on the topic an do so there.

 

[binary visions]

Seriously, we've been getting on newbies for not using the search function. Same can be said about this topic I guess, if you want to rant about 1.5 vs 1.125 dig up an old thread on the topic an do so there.

Out of thirty-six replies in this thread, exactly two of them have been in direct discussion of 1.5 vs. 1.125 - bighitfsr's, and D_D's.

The discussion of whether or not we should be allowed to discuss 1.5 vs. 1.125 is the only thing keeping this thread on that particular topic.

 

[Tarpon]

It's about time they got rid of QR20, you would think they were a german company the way they stubbornly held on to it. Now if they would go to a function over from crown and arch....

 

[zedro]

Now if they would go to a function over from crown and arch....

they cant, they're italian....